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LordofHats wrote:
You said yourself anyone is anonymous. That's what happens in the 'anonymity' of the internet. It's not even a coherent group anymore. It's a mass of groups and individuals who simply use a name. They have no clear goal, no clear platform, and do more attacks against law enforcement and random other groups than against scientology or people who actually deserve it. All hackers don't claim to be anonymous, but anonymous is a typical group of hackers in the sense you can talk about it being a group.

They're activists, software pirates, anarchists, griefers and generally in it for the lulz. Early Anonymous actions were more coherent, but now it's just chaotic. They're more a extremist fringe operating off cyber space now than what they were in the first two years (in the first two years they weren't even restricted to the internet they organized boots on the ground to protest too). I'd almost claim they're cyber terrorists, but they're not quite there yet. I think it's only a matter of time till they reach that point.

I told myself that I would posting in this thread until I was away from work's (probably monitored) internet connection, but life's too short to not point out just how ironic your avatar is at this EXACT moment.

Which is called a terrorist freedom fighter I suppose. Being one doesn't exclude you from being the other.

*bemusement*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Hyena wrote:They proved that real regulation of the internet needs to happen. We can't keep having big organisations like this being hacked all the time. Seriously, the videogame mess was appalling. They are largely teenagers with dreams who have no understanding of the way the world works. You can't just steal people's personal details and post them on the net; regardless of what they have done.

Glad to see some anons were arrested recently.

I agree, most people who play video games are largely teenagers with dreams who have no understanding of how the world works. That fact that such an 'attack' was even possible shows they had an amount of network security equivalent to just printing out the individual user information and leaving it face up on the corporate office receptionist's desk.

Sony should be held liable and the persons responsible there should be arrested.

Ratius wrote:Busted flat in Baton Rouge, us heading for the train,
Feeling nearly faded as my jeans.
Bobby thumbed a diesel down just before it rained,
Took us all the way to New Orleans,
I took my harpoon out of my dirty red bandana,
And was blowing sad while Bobby sang the bluuuuues,
With them windshield wipers slapping time,
And Bobby clapping hands,
We finally sang up every song, that driver knew.

Now for the bonus question:

Now do you know who sang it BEFORE The Rose?

Forgive me but who is the Rose?
I know Kristoffeson wrote it originally but didnt actually release it as his own until later.
Janice Joplin probably made it famous but Kris' version > all imho.

But tbh Kris > most things.

biccat wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Which is called a terrorist freedom fighter I suppose. Being one doesn't exclude you from being the other.

I think you entirely missed the point of that saying.

It's only a good point if you don't understand the difference between the two. Fortunately, many people do.

Now I think you might have missed it. I mean....really? It's pretty obvious what the saying is trying to get at. How people with different points of view interperet things differently.

Ratius wrote:Forgive me but who is the Rose?
I know Kristoffeson wrote it originally but didnt actually release it as his own until later.
Janice Joplin probably made it famous but Kris' version > all imho.

But tbh Kris > most things.

Janis Joplin.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

Send it via cheque please.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

biccat wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Which is called a terrorist freedom fighter I suppose. Being one doesn't exclude you from being the other.

I think you entirely missed the point of that saying.

It's only a good point if you don't understand the difference between the two. Fortunately, many people do.

Now I think you might have missed it. I mean....really? It's pretty obvious what the saying is trying to get at. How people with different points of view interperet things differently.

I didn't miss the point. It's just not a good point.

A "terrorist" is someone who uses the means of terrorism. A "freedom fighter" is someone who seeks the goal of freedom. The two are not exclusive.

I believe you are taking the phrase too literarlly. The point is a very good one as long as you don't get hung up which words are used.

Terrorist is often used as a negative term to describe armed organisations that attack governments. Whether they actually use terror is often overlooked. Cyberterrorists aren't causing terror they are just being disruptive.

Freedom fighter is a positive term used to desribe someone fighting a bad goverment.

Which description is acurate depends entirely on your view of the current goverment.

Cyber Terrorists are the same as terrorists; just that rather than killing people and spreading terror; they attack the economy, governments and corporations. (under the foolish guise of 'Sticking it to da man!")

Sony should be held liable and the persons responsible there should be arrested.

Yes, along with lulzsec for breaking the law.

lulsec's ultimate punishment will be the end of the internet freedom that they enjoy so much.

"The Man" is going to push back hard on this issue.

When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

In the 80's I used to consider "hackers" as cool people who could get into their school's computers and change their grades to all A's like in War Games. But nowadays, they just seem like immature emo brats that will do whatever they can to get their epeen noticed, mistakenly thinking people other than themselves actually care.

As far as Anonymous goes.... are they even anonymous anymore? I think they need to find a new name, like Not Anonymous

Necros wrote:In the 80's I used to consider "hackers" as cool people who could get into their school's computers and change their grades to all A's like in War Games. But nowadays, they just seem like immature emo brats that will do whatever they can to get their epeen noticed, mistakenly thinking people other than themselves actually care.

As far as Anonymous goes.... are they even anonymous anymore? I think they need to find a new name, like Not Anonymous

I consider hackers as absolute criminals. They steal our identities and ruin lives. Hang them off a bridge.

I think they are neccessary in the world we have today... no comment on the good bad or grey

Cane wrote:When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

Would you want someone to break into your house and steal something just to show you how your home system can be improved upon?

biccat wrote:

Cane wrote:When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

Would you want someone to break into your house and steal something just to show you how your home system can be improved upon?

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/ittakesathief/about/about.html

biccat wrote:

Cane wrote:When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

Would you want someone to break into your house and steal something just to show you how your home system can be improved upon?

Actually there was a show that did that...
With permission obviously but they did hire an ex-burglar to do it...

frgsinwntr wrote:http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/ittakesathief/about/about.html

Thanks, I couldn't remember the name of the show.

purplefood wrote:With permission obviously but they did hire an ex-burglar to do it...

And that's the difference between "white hat" and "black hat."

Miraclefish wrote:One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

This axiom is so ridiculously overused in the wrong context and is so flawed to begin with that words cannot describe.

biccat wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/ittakesathief/about/about.html

Thanks, I couldn't remember the name of the show.

purplefood wrote:With permission obviously but they did hire an ex-burglar to do it...

And that's the difference between "white hat" and "black hat."

Disregard this.

Kanluwen wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

This axiom is so ridiculously overused in the wrong context and is so flawed to begin with that words cannot describe.

Yeah, gotta agree with you there Kan.

Hang em up.

They're terrorists, bullies, and thugs.

I'm glad to know there are still people out there trying to make a difference, even if it is from the comfort of their computer desks, even if it's completely futile thanks to all the cattle who think they live in a democracy because they get to pick a new guy to **** on their head every 4 years and think they're free because they're not literally in chains.

biccat wrote:

Cane wrote:When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

Would you want someone to break into your house and steal something just to show you how your home system can be improved upon?

Nope but home security and computer security for the government and other entities are about as different as they come. I've also been hacked before so I know what both of those incidents feel like and its gak!

I loathe hackers but I also loathe huge corporations who are vulnerable to such pirate ships. Its remarkable how little Sony and other entities can protect your information and their own. Even top level executives still use one password for all of their accounts which is just asking to get compromised.

FBI needs to recruit these hackers or put 'em behind bars.

biccat wrote:

Cane wrote:When it comes to hackers, in a weird way I am kind of glad they exist. Computer security seems pretty vulnerable and they're making a mockery out of professional security systems everywhere. Those systems need to be tested and improved upon and often times hackers will become undercover agents for the government as well. Of course its reprehensible if something truly harmful occurred as a result.

Would you want someone to break into your house and steal something just to show you how your home system can be improved upon?

Odds are they would not survive the attempt.

God bless Texas!

lord_blackfang wrote:I'm glad to know there are still people out there trying to make a difference, even if it is from the comfort of their computer desks, even if it's completely futile thanks to all the cattle who think they live in a democracy because they get to pick a new guy to **** on their head every 4 years and think they're free because they're not literally in chains.

And this is why 'Anonymous' gets to act like douches or people claim they're "freedom fighters".

Because people out there thinks they're "making a difference".

They're not interested in causes. They're not interested in championing the people. They're a disorganized mass of individuals who find it hilarious to compromise security systems and claim afterwards that they were doing it for a good reason.

lord_blackfang wrote:I'm glad to know there are still people out there trying to make a difference, even if it is from the comfort of their computer desks, even if it's completely futile thanks to all the cattle who think they live in a democracy because they get to pick a new guy to **** on their head every 4 years and think they're free because they're not literally in chains.

The problem is they aren't trying to make a difference, they live by the whole 'Trolling is good' outlook, they don't give a rats rear about anything or anyone, its just a game thanks to boredom and a lack of focusing their skills where it would make them money.

As to the whole anti democracy thing, yeah, I always roll my eyes at the G8 protestors and anarchists, because I would not want to see the world their broken idealism would bring. It'd fall flat on its face in weeks and we'd be in a worse place than we are now.

Although I wouldn't worry, the population issue is coming to a crossroads, and China will feth everyone over hard when its ready.

Kanluwen wrote:
And this is why 'Anonymous' gets to act like douches or people claim they're "freedom fighters".

Because people out there thinks they're "making a difference".

They're not interested in causes. They're not interested in championing the people. They're a disorganized mass of individuals who find it hilarious to compromise security systems and claim afterwards that they were doing it for a good reason.

If it results in people discussing in an open forum the causes being attributed to them, does it matter what their motive is?

What I'm trying to say is, saying that they 'do it for the lulz' or that they're just punk kids, or somehow otherwise vilifying them is great fun. It's up there with discussing if Tom's gay, or whatever the media considers news nowadays. Let's have us a detailed conversation about some fething baseball teams afterwards and then take pride in that we're responsibly up on current events. Gossip has always been a great source of recreation for lots of people. However, it's not adding value. Arguing the morality of the actions of Anonymous is not adding value on any topics that matter. What would add value is discussing their claims. Watch that video and read their claims. Are they valid? Do they have a point? Are the things they list 'Bad'? No. No. Don't say it doesn't justify Anon's actions. I know you were about to. That doesn't figure in to this. The viewpoint is so fethed up here that we're eating from the hand of the media by discussing the morality of the group rather than actually listening to their message. So you don't agree with their methods, or you think their methods aren't suitably focus toward the goal. Great. Is their message any less valid?

Anonymous aren't a group, more like a selection of groups.

People just use them as a scapegoat, but I know plenty of anons that don't do anything massively lawbreaking.