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Made in us
Ambitious Space Wolves Initiate





the outer reaches of the Galaxy

I thought that Lion wouldn't let Russ attack and defend his honor and rage because lion wanted to hog the glory. Not a good reason to deny someone IMO... if someone talked crap to your brother or co-worker or squad member would you break away from him in a fight ?

not I.
That's loyalty.. and I'd let him go after the guy... if lion was such a millitary genius he could have used Russ' rage to his advantage and not sacrified Russ and his men.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lion had no good reason to say "no" to Russ other than he wanted that glory ... if he was so good at planing things and he could have made a plan that included russ rather than deserted him in the middle of battle.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 06:26:15


"Kill the Xenos"

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KillThemAll wrote:found this in the Space Wolves Codex.... sheds some more plausable light on Lions' decision to "break rank". Comes straight from SW codex page 91... IT says "suddenly and without warning, El'Jonson broke ranks and led his DA's into the attack against the tyrant's fortress. The Space Woves found their flank unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy counter attacked."

IDK .. you can spin it either way but sounds to me like Lion's direct actions to be greedy and get their first to "grab the glory" (as you put it above in a post Omegus) betrayed fellow space marines and cost lifes, a selfish and costly decision at the expense of the spacewolves and a "fellow Primarch" FIRST. Indeed, what if Russ himself had been killed. How would the Emperor look at Lion's rash decision to break rank and grab the glory at the expense of his "fellow Primarch" then... As I said and still stand by, Russ didn't start it or betray Lion like that, he simply gave the lion his consequences for his actions. And rightly so IMO. In todays modern army, I would wager that, that action would not be seen glorious at all... Russ himself could have been lost/killed. I wouldn't want the Lion in or anywhere near my army FO SHO!

BUT I do see your point how either chapter has their own viewpoint and it can go back and forth till the end of time. ..
Here it is anyways.

Ps .. is that the identical passage you found Omegus ? sorry if it is... it's 2am, too late time for bed

I don't even know anymore, like you said it's 2am. Don't get me wrong, although I have a burning hatred for all things related to Space Wolves, I find the Lion to be the most despicable character in the entire 40K mythos by a huge margin. But still, Lion plans an attack for weeks, Russ gets a bug up his ass because the heretic said mean things to him and wants to assault immediately, Lion ignores him and follows his own original plan. I don't see anything rash here... the Lion doesn't do rash. But he does love his sucker-punches.

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there were two paths Lion could have chose .. one .. include his brother and allow him to gain his justice... or 2. ignore his brother's wishes as well and add to the disdane and abandon his brother patriach in the middle of battle that cost lives... and created a many years of dissenece between the chapters... which one do you think would have been more productive ? IMO Lion didn't even try to include Russ.. he just said "No and my way or highway so f you I'm going over here let your men die I don't give a flip" ... not honorable AT ALL ! period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOlz OMgeus .. get some sleep

(like the cartoon of the cyote and the sheep dog... we can pick it up in the morning... "night Ralph... night Fred"

Peace



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kinda see your point .. Lion didn't want a part of Russ' tantrum ok I see that .. you're right .. but turning away from Russ in the middle of a fight when Russ dependent no TRUSTED him to protect his flank and getting Russ' men killed .. well That didn't help...he could have thought of something better. and I'd a punched the Lion too. lolz



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maybe that's why I roll spacewolves peace night all



Automatically Appended Next Post:
as BOTH accounts state .. it wasn't Russ that turned away from Lion so I don't believe the argument that RUss wouldn't listen and wanted to go off in a tantrum on The tower. ... on the contrary BOTH accounts state that the Lion left first .. appears proof is in the pudding and Lion's actions. It was him that abandoned Russ first and wanted to go his own way. Idk maybe too tried to tell at this point .. plus it's fiction and i wasn't there lolz .. peace really going to bed now

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 06:36:07


"Kill the Xenos"

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Maybe the original plans were for Russ to take the glory? Maybe when the Angels moved the WOlves should have moved in tandem. Instead the wolves are too angry or proud to follow the battle plan and then complain that the Lion left them. Perhaps the Lion was supposed to break the gates to Allow the Wolf through. We don't know. Most likely due to the fact that Russ strayed from the plan. If Eisenhower told me to follow his instructions I would lend him my ear. Not go off and say no because Rommel said I was a pansy.

 
   
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One says Russ was acting like a plum the other doesn't. It's a story favouring your own side.

Which version is true, I don't really care, as Imperial Fists are where it's at.

But my point is both are true as to keep the Space Wolves and Dark Angels fans happy and at each others throats. And the cycle of rivalry between the two factions continues.

Dulan isn't the only example of the Lion being a bit of a git towards Russ though.

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KillThemAll wrote:
SwiftLord14 wrote: "Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.


Here here! Swiflord ! good find !

Russ didn't start "the fight" Russ held Lion accountable for his poor decision and risking Russ' men. If I were Russ I'd pop Lion one too if his decisions got my men killed.

Held accountable by attacking him. Russ attacked a fellow Primarch, there's no way you can swing this to make Russ some enlightened being.


Omegus wrote:
SwiftLord14 wrote: "Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.


Both accounts are prefaced as legends, so neither is reliable. For the record, this is what it says in Codex Dark Angels, p 20:
It was on the world of Dulan where the Space Wolves were fighting alongside the Dark Angels that matters came to a head. The Tyrant Durath had personally insulted the Emperor, sacrificing thousands of Imperial priests to his patron Daemon, and both Russ and Jonson desired the honour of slaying this heretic. The headstrong Primarch of the Space Wolves flew into a rage when Durath proclaimed that Russ was the Emperor's lap dog and would be fed to his pet grox [lulz].

Russ swore that he would cut Durath's head from his shoulders and demanded that the Dark Angels allow him to lead his Space Wolves in an immediate assault upon the Tyrant's Crimson Fortress. Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. He refused Russ's demand and began the assault, storming the fortress with remarkably few casualties.

Russ, caught in a swirling combat at the base of the wall, could only howl in anger as he watched Jonson slay Durath high on the walls of the keep.


So from the Dark Angels description, it sounds like the typical Russ: headstrong, impulsive, and ever eager to get in a fight with his siblings. Maybe the Emperor should have skipped the leash, and gone straight to the choke-collar.

Of course, from the Space Wolves description, we get the typical Lion: treacherous and only concerned with his own glory.

Both of these Primarchs are bottom of the barrel.


So according to the Dark Angels own codex LION first....
1. scoffed at his skills and looked down their noses at the "barbarians"
2. Rather than let Russ defend/prove himself agains Durath's slander honorably (by pushing the attack and wining) .... the Lion tried to beat him to the punch to look like the hero ( disshonorable again) and
3. thus broke rank and got Russ' men killed...

Yeah if Lion got in my way of letting me prove my defend my honor and got a bunch of my men killed. I'd pop Lion in the mouth too or a lot worse. Russ may have punched first but according to that Dark Angels own codex Lion deserved it.
And the fact that after all that the lion still "realized how silly it was" YES iproxtaco I stand by my words "enlightened" ...

That's an incredibly biased view of it, and it's meant to be like that. Russ punched first, because The Lion took the kill, for his own personal glory and because he had a carefully laid plan that his brother was about to ruin with his head-strong ways. Russ threw the first punch because it was an insult to his honor and some of his men were killed. They fought. Russ stopped the fight, saying it was silly, despite starting it himself. The Lion punched him unconscious for starting it in the first place. Both got what they deserved.

Russ didn't start crap ! he tried to finish it.
But again his greater wisdom got the best of him and when he lowered his gaurd in laughter Lion sucker punched.

Biased view is biased. The Lion provoked, Russ started a fight due to being head-strong, The Lion finished. Equally responsible for the outcome.

PSSSSSSS>
Although a long time 40k Video game fan (played the original Space hulks Gene Stealers game for the NES in 1996) I am new to the table top and 40k lore. So I may not be versed enough i admit that .. .but I will say from first read it seems kind a sad and wrong that Russ shows loyalty to the Emperor (his father) and gets called "a lap dog" probably from a jealous man as well. Then on top of that .. his own brother views him as a barbarian and gets in Russ' way of proving his honor and on top of that gets Russ' men killed. Well how would you like to be raised by wolfs. Not as fun as your cushy shelterd palace there "LION". I don't know the lion's story on how he grew up but I bet Russ had it rougher being found in the woods raised by wolfs (sounds Roman/Romulus Ramus to me ). .. IDK imo poor old Russ is getting the bone and kicked around "like a dog" more than he deserves. I think people fail to see his true power and intellegence just because of his rough exterior and unpolished nature... To me that doesn't make him any less cuning or intellegent. Infact, to me that makes the Lion and others less intellegent for jumping to conclusions and underestemating someone based on apperances. Also, Sounds like Lion is a jealous brother and along with others won't give the Dog his due .. peace thanks all for replies I"m learning more and more and community is fun and great peace.

The Lion raised himself in a forest filled with Daemon monsters and predatory animals, fierce to the extent that humans had to live in fortresses protected by knights to survive. Not to cushy, is it? If what Omegus says is true, and from what I've read of Russ, in A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns, Russ is a barbarian, and a savage. That intellect is buried beneath religious and tribal dogma. Give me a source which portrays him as only pretending to seem like this.
   
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Doesn't Magnus say in a Thousand Sons that Russ isn't the savage that he appears and that it's just for show?

Maybe not all of Russ brothers were aware of this.

Lion and Russ had a strong relationship after Dulan and was strengthened after the Heresy, after the Lion stabs Russ. What a way to make a friendship stronger.

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Maybe, but from what Omegus has said, it isn't really a show, Russ is a savage through and through.
   
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He's definitely a single minded, brutal and unwavering chap

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Well, in A Thousand Sons, Ahriman comments that the Wolf King is probably smarter than he lets on, which lends some credence to the whole "he's just pretending" theory, but none of Russ's actions or statements actually support that theory.

Same thing in Prospero Burns, the Wolves say again and again that they just pretend to be savage barbarians to throw people off, but again none of their actions support that claim.

So maybe it's true, the Wolves are super sophisticated and intellectual and just pretend to be genocidal primitives, but they are just such awesome actors (sophisticated and intellectual, remember), that the persona overshadows their character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
KillThemAll wrote:there were two paths Lion could have chose .. one .. include his brother and allow him to gain his justice... or 2. ignore his brother's wishes as well and add to the disdane and abandon his brother patriach in the middle of battle that cost lives... and created a many years of dissenece between the chapters... which one do you think would have been more productive ? IMO Lion didn't even try to include Russ.. he just said "No and my way or highway so f you I'm going over here let your men die I don't give a flip" ... not honorable AT ALL ! period.

The Lion took the logical path, accomplishing his given task with the fewest casualties to his men and the most amount of glory to himself. That's his personality. He has no real loyalty, empathy or sense of camaraderie for fellow warriors. This is stressed repeatedly in the HH novels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 13:54:24


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iproxtaco wrote:That's an incredibly biased view of it, and it's meant to be like that. Russ punched first, because The Lion took the kill, for his own personal glory and because he had a carefully laid plan that his brother was about to ruin with his head-strong ways. Russ threw the first punch because it was an insult to his honor and some of his men were killed. They fought. Russ stopped the fight, saying it was silly, despite starting it himself. The Lion punched him unconscious for starting it in the first place. Both got what they deserved
....
I am biased ? lolz IPROXTACO.. .that's like the pot calling the kettle black.
Plus, Who is to say Russ would have ruined it ... the Lion didn't even let him try just said "screw you I'm going first.. wether you or your men die or not" ... and you're going to defend the lion's actions no matter what also... atleast I have already conceeded to Russ being rash and tempramental but Lion was equally wrong for betraying a fellow patriarch and brother on the battle field... seems like you won't even admit that ... so who is being biased .. hypocrite! You expect me to see your point without admiting Lion did anything wrong and without even seeing Russ' point at all... Atleast I can admit Russ was wrong on some parts but you still stand by Lion's decision to abandon Russ' back/flank in battle "directly" resulting in the death of many of Russ' men ... not "indirectly" because Russ was "rash: wanted to rush off first but Fing DIRECTLY.... point your "biased" fingers at yourself, hypocrite


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pilau Rice wrote:One says Russ was acting like a plum the other doesn't. It's a story favouring your own side.

Which version is true, I don't really care, as Imperial Fists are where it's at.

But my point is both are true as to keep the Space Wolves and Dark Angels fans happy and at each others throats. And the cycle of rivalry between the two factions continues.
Dulan isn't the only example of the Lion being a bit of a git towards Russ though.


Point well taken ..

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 14:47:11


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KillThemAll wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:That's an incredibly biased view of it, and it's meant to be like that. Russ punched first, because The Lion took the kill, for his own personal glory and because he had a carefully laid plan that his brother was about to ruin with his head-strong ways. Russ threw the first punch because it was an insult to his honor and some of his men were killed. They fought. Russ stopped the fight, saying it was silly, despite starting it himself. The Lion punched him unconscious for starting it in the first place. Both got what they deserved
....
I am biased ? lolz IPROXTACO.. .that's like the pot calling the kettle black.
Plus, Who is to say Russ would have ruined it ... the Lion didn't even let him try just said "screw you I'm going first.. wether you or your men die or not" ... and you're going to defend the lion's actions no matter what also... atleast I have already conceeded to Russ being rash and tempramental but Lion was equally wrong for betraying a fellow patriarch and brother on the battle field... seems like you won't even admit that ... so who is being biased .. hypocrite! You expect me to see your point without admiting Lion did anything wrong and without even seeing Russ' point at all... Atleast I can admit Russ was wrong on some parts but you still stand by Lion's decision to abandon Russ' back/flank in battle "directly" resulting in the death of many of Russ' men ... not "indirectly" because Russ wanted to rush off first but Fing DIRECTLY.... point your "biased" fingers at yourself, hypocrite


I'm not sure where these accusations are coming from. Did you read everything that I posted? The bit where I said The Lion did it for personal glory and they both got what they deserved?
Frankly, I think you saw "biased" and then got angry so didn't read anything else I posted, and I still think saying it was biased is correct. For example, you put directly and indirectly in quotations. I did not say that, I said nothing about The Lion causing the death of Russ's men indirectly. The fact that you're using the Space Wolves entry as fact is evidence enough of continued bias. Neither are wholly correct, they're legends, each side sticks to it's own version of events.
We know that Russ was insulted so wanted revenge.
The Lion had a carefully laid plan, that Russ was going to ruin.
The Lion sought personal glory as well as victory, so caused Russ's men to be killed.
Russ was angry that The Lion got his men killed, and that he killed the person who insulted him, so attacked the Lion.
The fought.
Russ thought it was childish, The Lion knocked him unconscious to end the fight.

Insults have no place in this discussion, I would advise you to edit before a mod gets there first. You would also do well to improve you're punctuation, like not using red underlined for so much, or not using dots between each statement. It's forum rules, and it's another thing Mods might pick up on.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 14:58:18


 
   
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KillThemAll wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:That's an incredibly biased view of it, and it's meant to be like that. Russ punched first, because The Lion took the kill, for his own personal glory and because he had a carefully laid plan that his brother was about to ruin with his head-strong ways. Russ threw the first punch because it was an insult to his honor and some of his men were killed. They fought. Russ stopped the fight, saying it was silly, despite starting it himself. The Lion punched him unconscious for starting it in the first place. Both got what they deserved
....
I am biased ? lolz IPROXTACO.. .that's like the pot calling the kettle black.
Plus, Who is to say Russ would have ruined it ... the Lion didn't even let him try just said "screw you I'm going first.. wether you or your men die or not" ... and you're going to defend the lion's actions no matter what also... atleast I have already conceeded to Russ being rash and tempramental but Lion was equally wrong for betraying a fellow patriarch and brother on the battle field... seems like you won't even admit that ... so who is being biased .. hypocrite! You expect me to see your point without admiting Lion did anything wrong and without even seeing Russ' point at all... Atleast I can admit Russ was wrong on some parts but you still stand by Lion's decision to abandon Russ' back/flank in battle "directly" resulting in the death of many of Russ' men ... not "indirectly" because Russ was "rash: wanted to rush off first but Fing DIRECTLY.... point your "biased" fingers at yourself, hypocrite


So after weeks of carefull planning the Lion should have just let Russ do whatever he wanted?
   
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the outer reaches of the Galaxy

NO,,, like I said if ANYONE was paying attention. I conceed that Russ was rash and wrong in that aspect ... I can't say what Lion should have done because I don't know the whole battle ...BUT what Lion should NOT have done is act rash himself and desert his brother patriarch at the cost of Russ' men.


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You never leave a man on the battle field unprotected. never .. try that in the army and see how quickly someone frags your ass in the bathroom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:03:15


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The Lion had a plan. The part of the Dark Angels codex had been quoted. Russ was going to ruin the plan. Both acted in their own nature, but Russ thew the first Punch. If he were so enlightened then he wouldn't have.
   
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PS IPROXTACO .. you got it twisted.... my Belief in what Russ did is neither biased NOR blind like your blind faith "Bias" in Lion... It's my belief based on what I have read and I have backed it up by quotes directly from Lexicanum, the DA codex and the SW codex. While you have merely had a BIAS against the SW from the begining, have failed to quote hardly anything supporting text from approved sources, and can only repost mine and other's quotes to try to twist things/words to your own belief. I have already amitted to Russ' fault in his tact and temper yet you have blindly supported Lion from the begining without even consider he had any fault in abandoning Russ' flank.. Which killed MEN .. sorry but are you fing stupid ! ... no sir, I think you're the blind biased ones and this whole thing started because I responding to your trash talking about SW in the very begining, since PAGE 1... You have been trash talking SW from the very beginging since page one.. what did you think I was going to do just stand by while you told the world your viewpoint ? So point your bias t finger at yourself... and quit trying to act all "analytical" you haven't done much to support your claims other than blindly refuse any guilt of Lion's part in the whole mess... typical for someone that would follow such a bastard.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:14:23


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I don't think that dribble deserves a proper response. When you actually read my posts, calm down, and edit your posts so they are legible and void of insults, which are against forum rules, then we'll have a decent conversation. Currently, your own bias is blinding anything you say with rage.
   
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hahahhaha ... ok what about your insults about russ in the beginging... dude don't try to act all "enlightened" yourself now... from page one you've been trash talking about Russ now you're going to hide from it and claim "forum" rules... go cry to mommy dakka. Typical brit .. starts a fight and won't finish it now trying to act all "civil" and above conversation when you're the one that started trash talking Russ in the begining.. I read your posts did you ?

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I'm talking about insults to me personally. Call fictional characters whatever you want, there's no need to get angry at someone with a differing opinion to you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:21:34


 
   
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hahahah dude get a hold of yourself... your the only one with biased... you've been trashing Russ from the begining .. fail to mention anything else but others posts. won't even read or comment on the lore posted from several sources or post your own approved lore to support your beliefs... you merely "conjecture" and "Inject" that Lion left to follow the plans... it doesn't even say that, you're trying to read his mind and have done nothing to support any of your claims with actual Lore refrences except to try to catch someone else in a slip up. where does it say that Lion left to stick to the plan ? in his own codex? Is that an INFERED belief ... Well, it states quite plainly in actual words NOT in interpretation.. "Suddenly without warning El'Johnson broke fromation leaving Russ' flank exposed" and you're going to blindly support that to the end with out even consceeding that was wrong ... Millitrally, that would get your shot by your own troops... if that's the kind of millatary conduct you believe in and find acceptable then no wonder we had to bail your asses out in the first place... for a fellow soilder to break formation and expose another soilders flank ON PURPOSE to an assualt from the enemy is nothing short of idiocy, travisty, and traitorus to your fellow soilder. Atleast I can admit that Russ failed on a point or two but you still won't conceed that Lion letting any of Russ' men die on purpose by DIRECTLY breaking formation... IF LION HAD PLANED ALL ALONG TO STICK TO PLAN WHY DID HE LION UP IN FORMATION WITH THE SW IN THE FIRST PLACE ONLY TO BREAK FORMATION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE> that is under handed and traitorous imo


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BS .. you need to read your own posts .. you're the first one that insulted me and called my opinion BIAS in the first place when your the one that can't see past El'Johnson's nose if your life depended on it ... biased and hypocritical.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:30:07


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Codex: Dark Angels wrote:It was on the world of Dulan where the Space Wolves were fighting alongside the Dark Angels that matters came to a head. The Tyrant Durath had personally insulted the Emperor, sacrificing thousands of Imperial priests to his patron Daemon, and both Russ and Jonson desired the honour of slaying this heretic. The headstrong Primarch of the Space Wolves flew into a rage when Durath proclaimed that Russ was the Emperor's lap dog and would be fed to his pet grox.

Russ swore that he would cut Durath's head from his shoulders and demanded that the Dark Angels allow him to lead his Space Wolves in an immediate assault upon the Tyrant's Crimson Fortress. Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. He refused Russ's demand and began the assault, storming the fortress with remarkably few casualties.

Russ, caught in a swirling combat at the base of the wall, could only howl in anger as he watched Jonson slay Durath high on the walls of the keep.

iproxtaco wrote:The fact that you're using the Space Wolves entry as fact is evidence enough of continued bias. Neither are wholly correct, they're legends, each side sticks to it's own version of events.
We know that Russ was insulted so wanted revenge.
The Lion had a carefully laid plan, that Russ was going to ruin.
The Lion sought personal glory as well as victory, so caused Russ's men to be killed.
Russ was angry that The Lion got his men killed, and that he killed the person who insulted him, so attacked the Lion.
The fought.
Russ thought it was childish, The Lion knocked him unconscious to end the fight.

Insults have no place in this discussion, I would advise you to edit before a mod gets there first. You would also do well to improve you're punctuation, like not using red underlined for so much, or not using dots between each statement. It's forum rules, and it's another thing Mods might pick up on.

iproxtaco wrote:Equally responsible for the outcome.

iproxtaco wrote:Both got what they deserved.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:40:27


 
   
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ps .. you're a lot like Lion.... bash on Russ, flame posts in the begining about him and then when someone steps up to defend you start pointing fingers and insulting him and puting his own words up in his face to try to prove YOUR biased side. and then when all this offends that person and he gets up set you try to play all civilalized and say "your rage" is at afualt well ofcourse someone's going to get angery at that.. you've been flaming your NEGATIVE opinion bout russ from the beginging started the name calling by calling me bias when you clearly are and now are supprised i got angry about it ? just like Lion, he leaves Russ' in battle, get's Russ' men killed, and still wants to point the finger at Russ for "getting angry" lolz. of course he got angry .. wouldn't you if your fellow soilder deserted you on the battlefield .. again Lion's actions have a stink to them all their own aswell.


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Peace I'm out of this one .. but thanks for the debate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:41:35


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KillThemAll wrote:NO,,, like I said if ANYONE was paying attention. I conceed that Russ was rash and wrong in that aspect ... I can't say what Lion should have done because I don't know the whole battle ...BUT what Lion should NOT have done is act rash himself and desert his brother patriarch at the cost of Russ' men.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You never leave a man on the battle field unprotected. never .. try that in the army and see how quickly someone frags your ass in the bathroom.


You know, it's all nice to think of the military as a place where everyone looks out for each other, but at the macro level, the military is a tool that is used to achieve objectives. If your objective is to take out the opposing commander, then what is important is achieving the objective with a minimum of losses. If the Lion thought that his strike could achieve the objective at a lesser cost than Russ' straight up the middle attack, then he made the correct call, even if one of the results of that call was that the Wolves' flank was exposed.

The Lion didn't respect Russ' vow? Well boo-hoo. How many Astarte lives is that git's honor worth? Especially when it's not honor at that point, it's ego.

The Lion didn't protect Russ' flank? Well just how many Wolves would have been thrown into the meat grinder if the Lion hadn't punched through, and thus weakened, their defenses.

Of course if you do something like that, you really should warn the people you are leaving exposed, but it's been pretty well established that both the Lion and Russ had the interpersonal skills of the ebola virus.

This discussion just reminds me why I like Alpharius and Omegon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:48:57


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





KillThemAll wrote:ps .. you're a lot like Lion.... bash on Russ, flame posts in the begining about him and then when someone steps up to defend you start pointing fingers and insulting him and puting his own words up in his face to try to prove YOUR biased side. and then when all this offends that person and he gets up set you try to play all civilalized and say "your rage" is at afualt well ofcourse someone's going to get angery at that.. you've been flaming your NEGATIVE opinion bout russ from the beginging started the name calling by calling me bias when you clearly are and now are supprised i got angry about it ? just like Lion, he leaves Russ' in battle, get's Russ' men killed, and still wants to point the finger at Russ for "getting angry" lolz. of course he got angry .. wouldn't you if your fellow soilder deserted you on the battlefield .. again Lion's actions have a stink to them all their own aswell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Peace I'm out of this one .. but thanks for the debate.


Not quite, but I'll let continue on your bias fueled rampage like a Horse with blinders. If you can't be bothered to read what I post then fine, there's really no point in you joining the discussion to start with.
   
Made in eu
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

The Lion made a choice to end the battle quicker, and I guess with less casualties. Russ tried to go in through the front door, which wasn't the best idea. I know which one I would follow.

Russ made his choice, the Lion made his.

By ending the battle quicker I guess the Space Wolves fared better than they would've done if the battle had of been a prolonged affair.

Maybe the Space Wolf version is their account and trying to pass the buck onto the Dark Angels as they recognise Russ's failing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:50:42


No pity, no remorse, no shoes 
   
Made in us
Ambitious Space Wolves Initiate





the outer reaches of the Galaxy

DaveNYC Russ and Lion had the same objective .. Russ wanted to kill the bad dude just as bad as lion so don't give me that BS that Lion was on objective and Russ was not... they both were going after the same goal AND BOTH let their pride get in the way of eachother... .Russ wanted to rush of into battle and Lion deserted his fellow patriarch and brother because BOTH wanted to get ther first ... so don't patronzie me. .. In the end BOTH had their faults .. my only problem is I have already admited to Russ' faults but you blind Dark Angels won't even conceed to any fault at all of Lion and to me that's just wrong.. .Lion was just as guilty of letting his pride and ambition get in the way as Russ. It's the common "competeing brothers' story Line and I bet the writers meant it that way.. what erks me is you DA won't admit any fault on Lion's part which to me is blind following and BIAS yet and hypocritical for iproxtaco to call me bias in the first place when I can atleast admit Russ' fault in the matter and he will not conceed to Lion's fault at all... Truth is THEY BOTH where guilty of letting their pride get in the way.! peroid end of story thanks for playing .. who ever the original guy is that posted for SW vs Man eaters .. .sorry I took your post somewhere else :( lol appologies

"Kill the Xenos"

MyNiceProfile.com 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Should I quote myself again? I clearly have conceded that they are equally responsible, you just don't want to admit that you don't read what people post, or you're so insufferably arrogant that you don't want to admit you've been caught out.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 16:02:55


 
   
Made in eu
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

The difference is Russ wanted to regain his honour the Lion wanted to finish the battle.

Russ put himself above his men.

Either way they both are too blame for what went down and both are rather sucky chapters anyway. World Eaters would kick both their asses.



KillThemAll wrote:SW vs Man eaters


lol ... Man eaters ...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 16:00:59


No pity, no remorse, no shoes 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





Pilau Rice wrote: both are rather sucky chapters anyway. World Eaters would kick both their asses.

THANK you.

At least someone else said it. I didn't think I was the only rational person on Dakka, but this thread had me doubting...

Fluff for the Fluff God!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Would I look bad if I agreed also? Because I do. World Eaters, and Angron for that matter, are better than both in my opinion.
   
 
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