Kitzz' new and improved Necron Question Emporium

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**Sabet**

hasn't this already been discussed in another thread?

**don_mondo**

TheGreatAvatar wrote:Instead is NOT a condition, not even remotely.

Ummm, yes, it is. Instead, you move models out of the way. Instead of what? So you look at the previous sentence and there's the answer. Instead of being destroyed.

But truthfully, you know all this and just refuse to acknowledge it.

So kitzz, got any more questions?

**TheGreatAvatar**

I suggest y'all take up the INAT ruling then.

**nosferatu1001**

Why would we? We can disagree with INAT rulings, showing why they are wrong, without having to "take anytthing up" with them.

I assume this means you concede? You havent shown a rule exempting you from mishap, so you must surely concede.

**don_mondo**

I'm sure Yak is well aware of the disagreement with that particular ruling. He does read these forums on occasion..................... They may have ruled it based on what they believe the 'intent' is or there may have been enpugh members of the group that believe as you do (incorrectly, IMO) to outvote those that wanted to do it per the rules. Or whatever. Only the INAT group can tell us why they answered it that way. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the INAT says, it's a tournament FAQ for a specific event and only applies to that event unless agreed to.

**Lordhat**

don_mondo wrote:I'm sure Yak is well aware of the disagreement with that particular ruling. He does read these forums on occasion..................... They may have ruled it based on what they believe the 'intent' is or there may have been enpugh members of the group that believe as you do (incorrectly, IMO) to outvote those that wanted to do it per the rules. Or whatever. Only the INAT group can tell us why they answered it that way. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the INAT says, it's a tournament FAQ for a specific event and only applies to that event unless agreed to.

Also, Inat often rules according to 'how it's played' instead of RAW, when the former is more popular than the latter.

**Kitzz**

I apologize, I was on vacation at Games Day Chicago. It's nice to clear the head and take a road trip once in a while. Let's get this thread back on track! YES I have more questions (from said trip) including some very interesting ones that are system-wide and not just Necron in origin.

First off, heading back to the Deceiver, can he use Deceive in the assault phase if he is in combat?

**nosferatu1001**

I thought Deceive was used in the shooting phase?

**time wizard**

It is used in the Shooting phase. Plus it has a range, equires LOS and can't be used on a unit in close combat.
Sounds like a shooting attack to me.

**nosferatu1001**

Excpet it isnt; you can still run and use it.

You still GET a shooting phase for a unit locked in combat, so as long as you can see the unit (no turning him around, he's engaged) you could target it.

**time wizard**

There is nothing explicit in the rules or and FAQ that says decieve is or is not a shooting attack.
I said that since it has range and requires LOS it sounds like a shooting attack.
If it is, it couldn't be used when the Deceiver was engaged in close combat.

**nosferatu1001**

Except it ISNT a shooting attack; nothing defines it as such.

**time wizard**

If that's the case, he could use it even if engaged in combat, but it would have to be used in the shooting phase.
It also could not be used on the unit the deceiver was in close combat with.

**Kitzz**

Sorry, don't know why I said the assault phase. Yes, I meant the shooting phase.

Next question:

Does the Deceiver have to actually ignore an assault move to use Dread? For example, can he use the ability when he is 8” away from all other models in the assault phase?

**time wizard**

The rule says it has can't be in close combat and it uses Dread instead off making an assault move, so yes it ignores assault.

He can use the abitlity on one unit up to 24" away so where did the 8" come from?

**Kitzz**

The issue here is what an "assault move" is. The issue is that he is not in range to assault anything if he is 8" away from the nearest unit.

**time wizard**

You don't have to be in "assault range" to make an "assault move".
For example, I am a distance from your unit. I announce that I will assault.
I'm a really bad judge of distance, and when I measure I find I am 7 1/2 inches away.
I am out of range and the assault fails. Did not prevent me from making an assault move.

Or you are 6" away but in diffficult terrain. I roll a 5 and 4. I can't get into assault, I didn't roll high enough so my assault fails.
I still made an assault move, right?

The only 2 limitations on Dread that I see is that the deceiver can't be in close combat, and if it uses dread it is instead of assaulting an enemy unit.

Worded wierd, but not that unclear.

**insaniak**

time wizard wrote:You don't have to be in "assault range" to make an "assault move".

To be a little clearer, you don't have to be in assault range to do something instead of making an assault move...

If you don't make an assault move, you can use Dread. If you're out of assault range anyway that's a bit of a no-brainer choice really.

I would disagree that an assault move happened if the assault failed, since if the assault failed, nobody moved. An assault was declared, but no assault moves occurred.

In this instance, though, it simply doesn't matter. Dread doesn't care why you didn't make an assault move... just that you didn't.

**Kitzz**

Okiedokie, pretty much what I was thinking. Good by me, so I'll toss the next one up there.

Nightmare Shroud:
A) Can it be used by the lord during combat?
B) What are “all normal exceptions?” Do they include just Fearless units? Stubborn units? i.e. Does it only apply to units that specifically have an ability that says they “never fall back?”
C) If the lord has no shooting weapon, can he still use the Nightmare Shroud?

**time wizard**

Kitzz wrote:
Nightmare Shroud:
A) Can it be used by the lord during combat?

Codex says it can be activated in the shooting phase so it can't be uesd in the assault phase.

Kitzz wrote:B) What are “all normal exceptions?” Do they include just Fearless units? Stubborn units? i.e. Does it only apply to units that specifically have an ability that says they “never fall back?”

I think you answered this yourself! Fearless units don't take morale checks and never fall back. So they would not be affected.

Kitzz wrote:C) If the lord has no shooting weapon, can he still use the Nightmare Shroud?

Of course, it's a piece of wargear.
Just like running, you don't have to have a weapon to run, you just run instead of firing a weapon.

**Kitzz**

Let me rephrase the first question:

Can a Lord who is currently locked in assault use the Nightmare Shroud during the shooting phase?

**Kevin949**

No, because you can't shoot during the shooting phase if engaged in CC and the wargear does not say you can do it while in CC unlike the veil of darkness which does. If you can't shoot for any reason, typically you can't do other actions that are "instead of shooting".

**Kitzz**

On a related note, why did the INAT FAQ decide to go the other way with this phrasing in regards to the WWP? It might assist the discussion if we could find out.

**Kitzz**

Since no one wants to answer, might as well move on to the next question:

Do wraiths get +1 attack for having two close combat weapons?

**Stonerhino**

Nope

Extra Letters.

**Sabet**

sadly they only have 1 close combat weapon. just like flayed ones and scarabs... :(

**nosferatu1001**

Kitzz wrote:Since no one wants to answer, might as well move on to the next question:

Do wraiths get +1 attack for having two close combat weapons?

No, as they dont have 2 CCW. Been asked a million times, the answer is always "NO"