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Happyjew wrote:And what about units that do not have eyes, i.e. wratihguard/wraithlords. Since TLOS is drawn from eyes, these models would never get to shoot...

That is technically correct, yes.

In practice, most players draw LOS from the model's head and call it close enough.

Scott-S6 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:Walk out your door - assuming you have natural forests about. Just see how far in you can see. There is underbrush and overgrowth that darn near makes a forest impossible to see through.

No it doesn't.

Firstly, we're talking about small clumps of trees on the table - not forest.

Secondly, forests do not block line of sight except over very long distances. In the kind of forest you'll find in most parts of Europe you can see several hundred yards without difficulty.
My bad in the USA, forests tend to be impossible to see through within 30' at the most. So - i know foolish me- assuming that 24" rifle ranges are simulating modern rifles with at least 1000' ranges, I thought that a 3" forest should be considered blocking terrain.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:50-100 feet isn't exactly good visability in an age where we have rifles that can kill from miles away. at that distance it is hard to miss, any further and you can't see anything.

It's pretty good when your weapons can only just shoot from one end of a tank to the other.

In the USA, we have real forests

Scott-S6 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:Walk out your door - assuming you have natural forests about. Just see how far in you can see. There is underbrush and overgrowth that darn near makes a forest impossible to see through.

No it doesn't.

Firstly, we're talking about small clumps of trees on the table - not forest.

Secondly, forests do not block line of sight except over very long distances. In the kind of forest you'll find in most parts of Europe you can see several hundred yards without difficulty.
My bad in the USA, forests tend to be impossible to see through within 30' at the most. So - i know foolish me- assuming that 24" rifle ranges are simulating modern rifles with at least 1000' ranges, I thought that a 3" forest should be considered blocking terrain.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:50-100 feet isn't exactly good visability in an age where we have rifles that can kill from miles away. at that distance it is hard to miss, any further and you can't see anything.

It's pretty good when your weapons can only just shoot from one end of a tank to the other.

The core issue seems to be your view that it is a tactical game versus my view that it is an operational game. I assume that there are vagaries in the distance and thus the size of forests. I am viewing a 6"x6" forest as representing something around 250000 square feet (500'x500') while you are viewing it as a 50'x50' tree stand. I guess I can accept that but then the ranges and/or movement rates become ludicrous.

My bad in the USA, forests tend to be impossible to see through within 30' at the most. So - i know foolish me- assuming that 24" rifle ranges are simulating modern rifles with at least 1000' ranges, I thought that a 3" forest should be considered blocking terrain. ]

Not completely accurate. Forests vary - the National Forest near here has some pretty good visibility ranges in most places. The treelines along the highway to my parents house likewise have a pretty decent viewing distance.

Central TX.

Well, this is another debate. RAI, draw from halfway up their face. Srsly guise, this thread is long gone.

rigeld2 wrote:

My bad in the USA, forests tend to be impossible to see through within 30' at the most. So - i know foolish me- assuming that 24" rifle ranges are simulating modern rifles with at least 1000' ranges, I thought that a 3" forest should be considered blocking terrain. ]

Not completely accurate. Forests vary - the National Forest near here has some pretty good visibility ranges in most places. The treelines along the highway to my parents house likewise have a pretty decent viewing distance.

Central TX.

Of course, that is in Texas. a fairly arid landscape that isn't condusive to large dense forests, although I hear the scrub can be fiendishly thick.

Trees planted along a road certaintly won't block LoS, but that is an artificial situation.

Either way, the premise that the model/dood will be "actively trying to take cover" takes care of that.