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Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

In fairness he has created problem mechanics in this book. How do you select a model 'at random' in your army? There is no rule based methodology for this and it's going to cause serious issues in tournaments.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

In fairness he has created problem mechanics in this book. How do you select a model 'at random' in your army? There is no rule based methodology for this and it's going to cause serious issues in tournaments.

I'll agree with that. I'm not quite sure how I would go about doing that either. My main gripe is that, the Army got a huge Overhaul, practically from the ground up, and people are complaining about a lot unique rules for the units. I would think that would be expected in this case. The book is very well organized, with several charts and references to page numbers in the back. Even if there is a question on a rule, it should take seconds to find it.

I'm curious to see if this is more of an army book for 6th edition and wether GW are taking their queue from 8th ed Warhammer by having loads of models and plenty of big vehicles that look cool but can be easily killed/destroyed. the death ray looks a bit fiddly for my tastes, I prefer the Jaws of the World Wolf.

@Sasori
Yeah, we're still working out the technical aspects of the podcast. We're new to it, so please bare with us, we'll work it out soon.

We are definitely seeing the Crons more positively. After actually playing them on the field, they do a lot better than anticipated against some of our tournament builds. We still haven't tried them against a full blown assault army yet, like Will's Fatecrusher, but will soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And there is a lot more bookeeping with Crons than any other army, but they still play pretty fast.

As long as they can stand up against SW missile buffet and Blood Angel Lenny hugs, I'll be more than thrilled.

We're playing Spider/Scarabs/Imotek against a mech Blood Angel list right now, and the Crons are holding their own, just fine.

Reecius wrote:We're playing Spider/Scarabs/Imotek against a mech Blood Angel list right now, and the Crons are holding their own, just fine.

It's good to hear! I'm looking forward to your next Podcast, and the Video Battle reports!

To touch some more on "how to keep scarabs alive".

From an IG perspective (is there any other?) multi-lasers, hydras and manticores are a great answer, but they are countered pretty well by a combination of stealth and night fight. If a good manticore blast lands, that's going to be a TON of dead bases, but you'll have to be crafty with a searchlight, then roll your scatter, then get past 3+ cover.

For heavy flamers on chimeras, you've got an effective range of 12-14". Scarab minimum charge range is 19". That is the answer after the initial scarab push, not a counter.

Hellhounds? So you didn't take three vendettas? Gonna be a long weekend of facing IG and grey knights.

Platoon command squad with 4x flamers getting out of a cruising chimera is just barely enough threat to be something you could do to stop scarabs, but you couldn't do it on the top of turn 1... You wouldn't reach anything. And it's hard to take that unit when you'll want meltas for about every other matchup in the meta.

The end result of all this is that searchlights are stupid good, and proper use of throw-away chimeras will probably save IG from just getting smashed up. But it won't make the necron match easy, just winnable.

From the perspective of my grey knights? I'm going to do my best to not let the dreads get charged. Even though they won't do jack until the sun comes out. That means getting out of my rhinos and charging scarabs with purifiers. If the necron player has tesla or gauss on deck, ready to wipe out my purifiers, then I might not have any scoring units at the end of the game.

Necrons aren't anything to be totally afraid of... But I certainly feel that the 'big three' are going to have to show them some respect. More so than I think they had to show for dark eldar and blood angels...

I agree, Shep. The big three are still kings, but Crons are a lot better than we first thought. The real test will be against a true assault list like Daemons.

Here is a bat rep we made (with proxies, but it gives you an idea of what to expect) with our first game.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/video-battle-report-new-necrons-vs-dark-eldar/

Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

The issue is not that they were changed, or that they're more diverse, but that there's just way too many special rules, similar to Grey Knights. Universal Special Rules were made to streamline the game, and now we're going back to massive entries for every single unit. Some special characters have rules entries that fill entire pages. There's just so much there that the entire codex is a convoluted mess. Not to mention that there are different counters to use for every second unit's special ability.

There's a difference between diversifying a codex, and piling on special rules without abandon.

Sasori wrote:I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.

Actually, I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that they have 2 wounds each. Which is plenty... going for them...

ShumaGorath wrote:The necrons were never tomb kings in space until now, they used to be the terminators from terminator flying around in half moons worshipping cthulu.

I.e. they were awesome.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

Why not indeed? I don't know, let's ask Dr. Manhattan:

Thermodynamic miracles... events with odds against so astronomical they're effectively impossible, like oxygen spontaneously becoming gold. I long to observe such a thing. And yet, in each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive; meeting; siring this precise son; that exact daughter... Until your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold... that is the crowning unlikelihood. The thermodynamic miracle.

Then Dr. Manhattan eats you. De-lish!

This review of the Necron Codex talks about rules clarifications and some background lore. I found it interesting and less histrionic than their video from a few days ago that focused heavily on the background lore:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-update/

Any clarification on the Entropic Strike issue?

N.I.B. wrote:Any clarification on the Entropic Strike issue?

What is there to clarify? Until it is FAQ'D otherwise, Entropic Strike comes before Pen rolls.

I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

As everything hits at the same I value, everything goes down 'immediately'. There's no existing rule that says 'lower the AV before roll to pen'.

Until it's FAQ it will pop up again and again. That's why I asked, of course.

N.I.B. wrote:I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

As everything hits at the same I value, everything goes down 'immediately'. There's no existing rule that says 'lower the AV before roll to pen'.

Until it's FAQ it will pop up again and again. That's why I asked, of course.

I value has nothing to do with this. It says it's rolled immediately after you hit. You roll to pen after you hit, so this would come after the Entropic Strike rule. I personally don't think that leaves room for any interpretation. They are going to have to FAQ it, either way.

Why would BOW have any further clarification on this anyway?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Sasori wrote:I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.

Actually, I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that they have 2 wounds each. Which is plenty... going for them...

ShumaGorath wrote:The necrons were never tomb kings in space until now, they used to be the terminators from terminator flying around in half moons worshipping cthulu.

I.e. they were awesome.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

Why not indeed? I don't know, let's ask Dr. Manhattan:

Thermodynamic miracles... events with odds against so astronomical they're effectively impossible, like oxygen spontaneously becoming gold. I long to observe such a thing. And yet, in each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive; meeting; siring this precise son; that exact daughter... Until your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold... that is the crowning unlikelihood. The thermodynamic miracle.

Then Dr. Manhattan eats you. De-lish!

I'll shoot him with poison weapons. One drop podded sternguard squad and that blue donkey-cave is done.

Sasori wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

It says it's rolled immediately after you hit. You roll to pen after you hit, so this would come after the Entropic Strike rule.

One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

Arkon wrote:
One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

That's how it was written in the earlier versions of the codex, which is why knowing that it is pretty clear that they changed it to happen immediately upon hitting the vehicle (i.e. before rolling penetration).

yakface wrote:

Arkon wrote:
One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

That's how it was written in the earlier versions of the codex, which is why knowing that it is pretty clear that they changed it to happen immediately upon hitting the vehicle (i.e. before rolling penetration).

Any rumored mention of a mechanism for determining the kind of randomization this codex calls for? Maybe something being implemented in sixth?

It really shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to randomize. If you have 6 or less choices, assign each of the targets a number and roll a dice, rerolling until you get one of the target numbers. If greater than 6, easiest way is to split the group into two or three sets of equal size, then roll to see which one is picked, then continue the process. For example

# of targets - solution
1 - you got it
2 - roll a D2
3 - roll a D3
4 - roll a D6, rerolling 5 and 6 OR roll two D2s
5 - roll a D6, rerolling 6
6 - roll a D6
7 - kind of complicated. Roll a D6. Subtract one from the roll, then multiply by 6. Roll a D5. Add the two numbers together, divide by 7. The result is the remainder of the division.
8 - roll a D2, then a D4
9 - roll a D3, then a D3
10 - roll a D2, then a D5
11 - complicated
12 - roll a D2, then a D6
13 - complicated
14 - roll a D2, then a D7
15 - roll a D3, then a D5
16 - roll a D2, then a D2, then a D4.

etc. Prime numbers are hard, so I'd just use a random.org on someone's phone.

Reasin #1 for avoiding large lychguard armies with Trazyn: Avoiding doing that.


Realistically if you're assigning them numbers you could just roll a percentile die. The big issue would be assigning them numbers in the first place if you have a lot of bodies for trazyn to jump (possible 42 in the army I think).

I personally don't think any of the powers that are completely random, would be too powerful if you got to choose instead.

Hey guys, here is some more commentary on the Crons for those who are interested.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/10/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-5-necrons-tips-tricks-and-tactics/

Tips, Tricks and Tactics, plus some results from our play testing.

Ho ho ho, who's hating on the Barge?! 4 Twin Linked Str 7 Tesla shots that arc + 2 Str 6 Tesla Shots at 30"? That's what...average 4 Str. 7 hits + a Str. 6 hit for a bargain price--against light transports that will be killer suppression fire to help your Scarabs get into position.


Joshing around about the Cron dex aside--I'll gladly support a fellow DCM opening a store! What is your shipping cost, I couldn't see it on your site.

I am in love with Harbingers of Destruction...just, wow for that cost. Just..wow.

We're doing $5 per large shipping box, so it's nice and cheap. For each box we pack full of stuff, you only pay $5.

And thanks! We really appreciate the support.

The website isn't done yet, we still need to get a lot of our product up on the site, but we carry a lot of different lines in addition to GW. Just ask if you see something you want that isn't on the site.


@Kurgash
Yeah, they are pretty awesome. Almost all of them are really useful, TBH. That Chronomitron is great. In the podcast we go over some of it's uses.