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Dice Monkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

What do you think is more delicious fried turkey wrapped in bacon or tofurkey wrapped in beggen strips?

As a god that can make anything i want to the perfect degree? The first one. Which I don't need people for because I'm a god that can control space and time and I have mastered light speed technology and the ability to turn living things into robots.

Alot of people are all sad that Necrons aren't super broken or look very mediocre on the statlines but I'll say this: 9 times out of 10 you won't see the same list twice* which is about the best thing for Necrons since way back in 2002.

*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Kurgash wrote:Alot of people are all sad that Necrons aren't super broken or look very mediocre on the statlines but I'll say this: 9 times out of 10 you won't see the same list twice* which is about the best thing for Necrons since way back in 2002.

*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Easy on the competitive player-hating...

The reason players tend to make the same choices in competitive tourney lists, isn't because they are copying some all powerful internet mega-gamer. It is because they are coming to the same conclusion about which units are the most competitive in the tournament metagame, independently of each other.

However, I do concur on the main point of your post... Suddenly there is theme... and plenty of it! I haven't even finished reading each units fluff, and haven't even touched the overall army fluff, but already there are different groupings of models and different 'dynasty personalities'

The canoptek/cryptek family of units are all good, and full of character

The flyers and jetbikes might not exist as models yet, but sound like a great alternative to 'slow and plodding'. Flyer transports that can hold jump infantry, fast skimmer command barges, flyer heavies and jetbike fast attack sounds like a huge change of pace.

Monstrous creatures in both elite and in heavy support? Backing up a wall of scarabs from fast attack... that seems like another completely different vibe.

The old classic "zombie walk" monoliths, warriors, and immortals is still a functional list too. And there are a lot more models on the table to look at.

I'd even love to see an actual "their number is legion" type list with 80 or so warriors and 4 ghost arks. Sprinkle some res orbs and harbingers of transmogrification around and just see how truly annoying they could be. (use the ghost arks to block charge lanes while keeping your LoS open)

I think a potential necron collector has plenty to do, both competitively and now, thematically. I also think that somehow they managed to not screw over veteran necron collectors. Immortals and warriors are great, scarabs are fantastic (and the veteran necron players will have more than the new guys) the monolith is still quite solid. And even though pariahs were retconned out, they still make excellent necron lord models (or could be lychguard as well) Destroyers lost a little bit of fun, switching to a less fun unit type, and losing a lot of range and power on their gun, but they still seem pretty fun to play... and now have this fun new fluff. They even figured out how the veteran players can hang on to their C'tan models. I was pretty certain that they were going to be relegated to an apocalypse datasheet.

Pretty good job in my opinion.

Kurgash wrote:
*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Amen to that!

My favorite part of all the talk about a new Codex and how it fits into the power hierarchy of the meta is this: the best way to screw with the meta is to screw with the meta! Taking a fun, reasonably well-thought out army to a tournament and watching people squirm as your "useless" units jump up and down on their precious "this list won 'Ard Boyz last month" units is borderline criminal kind of fun .

I for one am happy to see the chance for some variety in a Necron book after rocking one troop choice for close to ten years .

@Shep

Buddy, where you been?!

Good to hear form you, we missed you at Comikaze.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. We shot that review off the cuff just to get the information out fast.

The death ray, you are right, we missread it in our haste. It is still an amazing tank killer, though.

Imotekh is worth his points for the 4+ seize, alone. IN the right list, that is brutal. His night fight and lightening are just nice benefits.

We are thinking that 30 scarabs, 9 Canoptek spiders will be a killer list. Imotekh keeps them concealed as they advance and the Spiders poop out nearly a full squad a turn. That wrecks mech, and with the amount of attacks scarabs have, they still have a fighting chance against a lot of units through weight of numbers.

Why take 3 Squads? Why not take 2 squads of Wraiths for some real punch in CC and by the top of turn 2 have a single 28 base swarm that's generally in charge range.

Reecius wrote:We are thinking that 30 scarabs, 9 Canoptek spiders will be a killer list.

Hulksmash wrote:Why take 3 Squads? Why not take 2 squads of Wraiths for some real punch in CC and by the top of turn 2 have a single 28 base swarm that's generally in charge range.

I've been drooling about this idea since I got the Codex...now where on earth do I find that many Scarabs... (Or Wraiths for that matter!)

Haha. I know where you can get 66 scarabs...

Buy 22 boxes of necron warriors!

Honestly, forge world needs to make a scarab base chock full of scarabs like they did for ripper swarms.

Barring that, I actually think it is acceptable to use one of those green stuff moulds they sell and press your own bases. Usually I am an IP infringement nazi and would frown on doing something like that, but the unit is so good and necessary, and acquiring them en masse is nearly impossible, so I wouldn't hate on anyone who pressed green stuff moulds of scarab bases. At least until GW figures out that we need them. Like maybe they put one scarab base per tomb blade model.

Reece, I took one of those "hobby breaks" that we all need from time to time. I'm emerging from my stasis-tomb now that the reanimation protocols have finished repairing my social life.

I've got a couple fully painted tourney lists just sitting in my game room (ig and grey knights). Maybe I'll go to a tourney that you and the boys are going to. But really I don't think I'll be excited about 40k again until summer.

We just played our first game with Crons, 10 scarabs and 9 Spiders. Wow. Those combined with Imotek is pretty brutal. We're playing game 2 now against IG.

We were off about crons. It will be incredibly easy to make a very, very BAD list, but a good player can make a very good list (it appears so far anyway) pretty easily. They do have weaknesses though, which is good.

Check out the podcast for more info. We'll have a video bat rep up soon.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

Reecius wrote:We just played our first game with Crons, 10 scarabs and 9 Spiders. Wow. Those combined with Imotek is pretty brutal. We're playing game 2 now against IG.

We were off about crons. It will be incredibly easy to make a very, very BAD list, but a good player can make a very good list (it appears so far anyway) pretty easily. They do have weaknesses though, which is good.

Check out the podcast for more info. We'll have a video bat rep up soon.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

Like it's easy to get wrapped up in the shiny good toys to lose sight of things? Just how is it easy to make a bad Necron list?

Yeah, exactly, you said it.

I think this book will take a lot of synergy and intelligent list design to make it work. Like Dark Eldar, in a way. With an army largely on foot, they are very vulnerable.

With a good list that has units that build on each other, it's on.

Tomb Blades are my favorite behind scarabs so far.

In our test games, the army needs Imotek or several Crypteks with Solar Pulses to work. Imotek is so damn good.

In the test game I played against a necron playing friend he was having some good luck with a cryptek squad spamming eldritch lances. At (the cost of a basic tactical squad) it was putting out 5 demi lascanon shots a turn and it's easy to protect it from enemy heavy weapons if you use a monolith as LOS blocking terrain. Basic destroyers are also pretty mean with their ability to do severe damage to an MEQ squad at range while hiding behind monoliths themselves.

=/ damn. I was hoping to run some Lychguard hosts behind at least 60+ warriors alongside scarabs and Wraiths. So much for flashy units holding their own.

Tastey Taste was just in our store buying some Lychguard. He thinks they will kick ass.

We'll see. I think they have too many shortcomings, personally, but I could be wrong. We're coming around on the Necrons. Our first impression was bad, but our test games is showing them to be pretty fun, actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

There's some discussion about our second work through of the book.

I really think they are more of a 2 on the 1-2 punch. Throw scarabs or coiled Wraiths at a target and then follow up with the Lychguard to ensure the unit's full destruction. It might seem overkill but really, it's better to ensure a target's demise and even better reduce it to minimal efficiency so you stay locked in combat and not get shot.

I'm not sure convinced of the power of massed scarabs. Swarms big vulnerability has always been instakill firepower and the scatter laser is a pretty integral component of most guard armies. A cruising speed vet drop with some flamers will likewise cut a squad down pretty quickly as will a double hammerhanded GK unit or an incinerator template.

@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Templates and such will be the equalizer for sure, but that means forcing your opponent to come 18" out to you as really, you always want your scarabs at the minimum effort for charge range, without fleet rolls taken into factor.

That means at best a jump infantry squad with flamers or a Blood Angel/Vanilla Redeemer going full up 12" and burning maybe 2 bases. After that, it's all a factor of bait/switch.

Can't wait to try this army out as a good chunk of all my old toys suddenly became good. Wraiths Scarabs and Spyders OH MY!

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

ShumaGorath wrote:
and yet ultramarines are but a fraction of the space marine chapters. It's badly written fanfluff.

Mmmmmm, no. Remeber, many many chapters are founded from the ultramarines geneseed. So in terms of legecy they're many out there.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

He might be talking about blast templates.

Kurgash wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

He might be talking about blast templates.

It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

whigwam wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

Can the spiders run and pump out scarabs at the same time?

ShumaGorath wrote:

whigwam wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

Can the spiders run and pump out scarabs at the same time?

Producing scarabs is done at the beginning of the Movement phase, so I don't see any reason why they couldn't produce scarabs, and run.

Reecius, I just got done listening to #4. Glad to see that you are seeing the Necrons in a bit more of a positive light. I'm looking forward hearing about some more test games between you all.

Also, It seems like there was a lot more distortion in this podcast. I think it would make the Podcast a lot better, if you could improve audio quality. The content is defiantly there, it's just the audio quality that's lacking.

I'm sure they can, if what I heard is right they pump out scarabs in the movement phase and then can run in shooting.

Yes, I think so. They create bases at the beginning of the movement phase. No codex handy, but I think the only restriction on creating a base is that the Spyder must not be engaged in CC.

:gasp: does that mean they can do it when they've gone to ground too!? D:

I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.