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Thanks, Ketara...

I guess I'm not totally sure what I'd like out of this thread at this point, now that the word is out. Things can get out of control so quickly...

I have looked into a few more things, namely sharing the voicemail recording with porkuslime, who has spoken to Matt on the phone before, to see if he can give any indication of whether it seems to be Matt or not (while claiming to be "Damien").

Likewise, I've asked Alpharius to check to see if he has the packaging for the first box he received after I communicated with Miniature Wargame Conversions, as that was sent by "Damien"... and to see if the return address matches Matt's.

One thing I know for sure- I'd Really like this thread to stick to facts, not conjecture. Considering the sites that donate to MWC's raffles is a very valid thing to do- perhaps contacting those sites, if anyone was concerned, about these issues might make them reconsider participating in these events, and again lending more credibility to Matt's use of the site as a means to raffle things... since it's not a huge jump to go to selling from there (as he already did).

In that regard, I spoke at length via email to the owner of the From The Warp blogger group of which MWC is a part. The owner (Ron) was extremely polite throughout, however in the end decided that this was beyond the scope of what he could remove a member of the blog-ring for. There are many other excellent blogs in the same ring (Dave Taylor's is a good example) and by being a part of it it is again lending credibility to the site.

The blogger group's main page is here:
http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/

But again, I already spoke with the owner extensively and nothing is happening in that regard. However, perhaps other blogs in the ring could remove their links to MWC, or the like, or at the minimum not sponsor things like raffles at MWC...

So, as I said, I'm not sure what I want to come out going from here, but sticking to the facts and being clear about actions taken (i.e., there are many sites that link to MWC that are not even remotely connected to them, and have no idea about Matt) would give this thread a clear purpose from this point forward.

Just slamming anyone remotely connected to Matt isn't going to accomplish anything useful, though!

And.. to follow up on RiTides note.. he has shared the voicemail he has with me, but thanks to some family issues at the house tonight I was unable to listen to it.. I have been warned that it is not a "kid friendly" listening experience.

Ok guys, this keeps coming up, and I really feel that it needs to be sorted out now.

The word "Raffle", as described in dictionary.com -

noun
1.
a form of lottery in which a number of persons buy one or more chances to win a prize

Please note the bolded word in that quote. Buy. For someone to buy something, we would have to sell something, in this case, tickets for the raffle.

WE DO NOT TAKE IN MONEY, SELL TICKETS, ASK FOR FAVOURS OR ANYTHING ELSE IN RETURN FOR ENTRY INTO THE MONTHLY CONVERSION COMPETITION. IT IS 100% FREE AND 100% NO STRINGS ATTACHED

So, please, enlighten me as to how anyone could possibly get scammed by entering our competition!? If there is no requirement other than to follow the rules laid out, no entry fee, no tickets for sale, then how can the entrant possibly get scammed by entering!?

As for anything else to do with the site, as I said back on page 1, we have no services, hobby related or otherwise, in which we would take money for doing something for you. Nothing. Zero. Zip. So again, it would be impossible for someone to get scammed via the site, as we have nothing for sale!

The Knight Titan service offered by Matt that was linked earlier in this thread is something he no longer offers to anybody, not even me. I enquired about one a few back, just after I started at MWC, as was flatly told that he no longer does it as it caused too much drama within the community.

Lastly, as a result of this thread, Matt is currently re-evaluating his position at MWC. It seems that his past will chase him wherever he goes, and he does not want to see the site get dragged down because of his association with it, as it was something he started to encourage modelling diversity within the community and to reward those who participated with prizes. I will post an update in this thread when he makes his decision. Please note that this was Matt's decision and no-one trying to force him out.

I will update here in due course.

The concern is not that the site was scaming anyone.

The concern is that the site drives people towards purchasing services from an individual with a checkered past.

Unfortunately, I need to put out a warning to avoid giving this conversion website funds of any kind.

Therefore, I'd warn anyone against commissioning them for anything, sending funds, or otherwise financially interacting with them. I see no reason why someone could not participate in posting on their website or the like, however be wary of anything beyond that.

Taken from the very first post in this thread. It does not reference the individual, but the site as a whole.

And the concern that you referenced I have just cleared up in my previous post. We offer no services at all.

AridMonk wrote:

Unfortunately, I need to put out a warning to avoid giving this conversion website funds of any kind.

Therefore, I'd warn anyone against commissioning them for anything, sending funds, or otherwise financially interacting with them. I see no reason why someone could not participate in posting on their website or the like, however be wary of anything beyond that.

Taken from the very first post in this thread. It does not reference the individual, but the site as a whole.

And the concern that you referenced I have just cleared up in my previous post. We offer no services at all.

1) If he received corrospondence from an email address that includes the url of your site, then that is an understandable reason for assuming that it was a service offered by the site. I don't recall an explanation so far as to why emails were send that appeared to be from the website.

2) And again, the concern at this point is NOT that you offer services, but that you basically funcion as an advertisement for contributers. One of whom has a very checkered past. By including him with legitimate converters and businesses you make him look legitimate.

Sorry that does not concern you, but the hobby community looks out for one another.

AridMonk wrote:So, please, enlighten me as to how anyone could possibly get scammed by entering our competition!? If there is no requirement other than to follow the rules laid out, no entry fee, no tickets for sale, then how can the entrant possibly get scammed by entering!?

Not *yet*. But any good scam artist lays a bit of groundwork and generates good relations before looking to fleece people. After all, you generally don't give money to someone you don't know. If he does his usual, and there are postings online as far back as 2005 where he's cut of communication with a customer, you'll be left picking up the pieces as his associate.

Again you have to ask, why is it that if the raffle takes no money, these prizes and donations are coming out of Matt's pocket, why is he incapable of addressing his previous debts?

d-usa wrote:1) If he received corrospondence from an email address that includes the url of your site, then that is an understandable reason for assuming that it was a service offered by the site. I don't recall an explanation so far as to why emails were send that appeared to be from the website.

A decent point, and one that I will try and look into.

d-usa wrote:
2) And again, the concern at this point is NOT that you offer services, but that you basically funcion as an advertisement for contributers. One of whom has a very checkered past. By including him with legitimate converters and businesses you make him look legitimate.

Sorry that does not concern you, but the hobby community looks out for one another.

I'm sorry? Where exactly do we function as an advertisement for contributors? That one blog post, six months ago? For a service that he no longer offers?

Yes the hobby community looks out for one another. It's one of the best features of any of the multitude of forums I visit. However, in this instance, the warning is misleading, as it tells users to stay away from us and to not give us money, but we do not take money in the first place!


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Howard A Treesong wrote:
Again you have to ask, why is it that if the raffle takes no money, these prizes and donations are coming out of Matt's pocket, why is he incapable of addressing his previous debts?

That is something that you would have to ask him, as I do not control his wallet. If Matt does leave the site, it would be one of us who would continue the donations.

AridMonk wrote:

d-usa wrote:1) If he received corrospondence from an email address that includes the url of your site, then that is an understandable reason for assuming that it was a service offered by the site. I don't recall an explanation so far as to why emails were send that appeared to be from the website.

A decent point, and one that I will try and look into.

I would really appreciate your looking into that, AridMonk.

As it is, I have hundreds of emails from MiniatureWargameCo@gmail.com, which is an email address I found on the aforementioned blog post on the website offering the knight titans for sale. I received correspondence from this email as recently as just a few days ago when I posted this thread (I've since blocked it, as I hoping to resolve things privately without needing to warn the community... but it was not to be).

I also have a recording of 11 voicemails, which I received after sharing my phone number with that email address, and which references the same people from Miniature Wargame Conversions ("Jeff" and "Damien").

All of this was done in the name of "Miniature Wargame Conversions". NONE of it was done in the name of Matt (in fact, it was repeatedly denied that the communication was from Matt, and asserted over and over that it was from behind-the-scenes people from Miniature Wargame Conversions).

Hence, my warning people about the website, Miniature Wargame Conversions... as that's who I was told I was dealing with this entire time in trying to help recover the missing goods from Alpharius' blown deal with Matt. I was told "they" cared enough to help resolve it... a box was even sent directly by "Damien" supposedly with a small portion of what was owed. However, it seems that "they" don't care enough to fully resolve it... hence my naming the website as complicit in this, given the involvement shown above.

At best, it'd be a well-meaning person (well, 2, in fact "Jeff" and "Damien") who got burned out. At worst, and much more likely, it'd be Matt using the Miniature Wargame Conversions name to give himself room to make aliases / cover his actions... and that should concern you greatly. I look forward to hearing what you find out after looking into this... I hope you do so with an open mind, and really consider why this would be OK for the person who created the website to do.

AridMonk, redscorp et all... It hasn't been said yet I suppose, but has it occurred to you that you guys are the very people we are trying to look out for here?

Look at the work and time you have to spend on this, quite likely through no fault of your own.... For your own sakes, spend half an hour looking into RSO, not in his interests, but your own.

Guys, we must be very careful how we say things here, if MWC is willing to post evidence and genuinely engaged in figuring out what is going on, we should be supporting them not attacking. Likewise MWC, if you could continue to address questions fairly and not dodge the more worrying facts, that would go a long way...

Let's act like we are all hobbyists trying to help each other out and enhance the community here.... This is in fact what we were all trying to do anyways right???

MajorTom11 wrote:AridMonk, redscorp et all... It hasn't been said yet I suppose, but has it occurred to you that you guys are the very people we are trying to look out for here?

Look at the work and time you have to spend on this, quite likely through no fault of your own.... For your own sakes, spend half an hour looking into RSO, not in his interests, but your own.

Guys, we must be very careful how we say things here, if MWC is willing to post evidence and genuinely engaged in figuring out what is going on, we should be supporting them not attacking. Likewise MWC, if you could continue to address questions fairly and not dodge the more worrying facts, that would go a long way...

Let's act like we are all hobbyists trying to help each other out and enhance the community here.... This is in fact what we were all trying to do anyways right???

I agree with Majortom

I concur with Majortom, Legal stuff is best left to lawyers and posting defamatory remarks no matter how baseless or legitimate is leaving yourself open to a world of pain. Remember this is open source, so if someone goes on google and runs a search...Bingo there are your statements clear as day and for the record.

If this Redstar fellow is as you put forward, why doesn't someone take him to court and settle this thing? If convicted I have no problems putting the boot in and sharpening the knives.... Until then it's "Innocent until proven guilty".

Agreed. However, all I have to go on are my communications with Miniature Wargame Conversions via email and the voicemails left for me by people identifying themselves with the site. This implicates the site, and is why I am referring to the site and not to Matt. The communications I received always mentioned Miniature Wargame Conversions, not Matt... therefore, it is appropriate to refer to Miniature Wargame Conversions when talking about it. If it is indeed shown that it was Matt communicating all along, that's even worse- as then he was impersonating the site and making up names to be associated with it...

However, on the subject of Matt himself- I received a PM a while ago from a user who had commissioned him earlier this year to make 2 Thunderhawks, and has had little to no communication since sending half of the fee upfront... they saw this thread and just updated me on the status of that, which is much the same. I'm asking for permission to share it here.

Clearly, in my opinion, Matt is still doing commission work (see the above note, as well as the Knight Titans sold this summer). Also clear, from my own experience, is that the website Miniature Wargame Conversions was connected, whether against the will of the other contributors, or not- he made a blog post on the site offering his items for sale, with the contact information MiniatureWargameCo@gmail.com. I have voicemails from after communicating with that email address identifying the speaker as connected to MWC. So, unfortunately, it cannot be separated out in this case.

I would appreciate AridMonk looking into the questions I raised. At this point, I doubt I would trust MWC even if Matt were supposedly to no longer take part in the site- as the things I experienced seem to have been under the noses of the other contributors / without their knowledge, and who is to say that couldn't happen again? It is Matt who created the site, recruited the other contributors, and administrates the site from what I can tell, so he is the one controlling things. Add to that the fact that he seemingly used the name Miniature Wargame Conversions in his communications, even using an email address of the same name, and how can you separate the two?

RiTides wrote:However, on the subject of Matt himself- I received a PM a while ago from a user who had commissioned him earlier this year to make 2 Thunderhawks, and has had little to no communication since sending half of the fee upfront... they saw this thread and just updated me on the status of that, which is much the same. I'm asking for permission to share it here.

Is this it being offered as a prize here?
http://miniaturewargameconversions.blogspot.com/2011/01/last-night-to-enter-free-give-away.html

I have a feeling something like that may be what gave him the idea to commission Matt, as he said he contacted Matt in February of this year, and that offering is in January. I.e., seeing a scratch-built Thunderhawk being given away as a prize, then asking him to convert one... hence this thread calling into question whether it's OK for Matt to be associated with a site running conversions contests, as it's an easy step to then sell conversion services based off of that.

AridMonk wrote:
I'm sorry? Where exactly do we function as an advertisement for contributors? That one blog post, six months ago? For a service that he no longer offers?

Yes the hobby community looks out for one another. It's one of the best features of any of the multitude of forums I visit. However, in this instance, the warning is misleading, as it tells users to stay away from us and to not give us money, but we do not take money in the first place!

Respectfully, you're missing the point. You're thinking about it from your own p.o.v. and not taking into account how other people think and act.

Have you ever been approached about doing commission work without saying, in any way, that you are interested in doing so? If you're any good (I have not looked at your work) and say "no," I'll be surprised.
I've been in the community -pretty deeply- for a long time. People are ALWAYS looking to others to do paint and/or conversion work for them. If they see something you do that they like, and you appear to be doing this more than casually, they WILL contact you.
If you're converting models and popping out one a month, you're not likely to get a lot of unsolicited contacts. Popping out a converted model every day or two? Creating custom scratch-builds in a week? Your inbox WILL get some hits from people who want to throw their money at you to do what you do, but for them. The same thing goes for painters. If you've got a dakka blog and a decent personality, and you're popping out models at a decent quality in swift time, you'll be contacted.

The same thing goes at your site. Where conversionists congregate, there will be people who will pay you to do it. All you have to do is say "Yes" when they email and take their money.

I'm the Admin in charge of Advertising at Bartertown. I know this from personal experience. Additionally, I used to sell painted minis on Feebay many MANY years ago, and used to get unsolicited messages there at a rate of on or two a month. It happpens.


Eric

Ketara wrote:I'd just like to clarify here for those not intricately involved in the wargaming trading history of the internet, that there have, in the past been issues between RogueMarket/Justin Wu, and Bartertown (who MagickalMemories is a prominent figure at). However, to the best of my knowledge (reinforced by the posts of both above), all such issues are long in the past, and resolved.

The current topic of discussion is the website Miniature Wargaming Conversions, and by extension, the way it seems to have been used by a particularly notorious individual (Matt Bonder/redstarone). Keep it on topic people. No need to draw in names of the unrelated.

I second what Ketora said. While Justin did make some mistakes in the past, he did make up for all of them. I do not believe that Justin has any intentions of doing anybody wrong. He has went a long way from where he was a few years ago.

As for Matt. It's a shame there has been so much negative done by him. He is a super talented guy and could have went very far in the industry IMO it has all been one huge waste of a great talent.

AridMonk wrote:

Lastly, as a result of this thread, Matt is currently re-evaluating his position at MWC. It seems that his past will chase him wherever he goes

Good.

He should go away and stay away.

AridMonk wrote:

Lastly, as a result of this thread, Matt is currently re-evaluating his position at MWC. It seems that his past will chase him wherever he goes

Something worth saying for you to remember AridMonk, his issues are not in the past. He currently owes a lot of people money and miniatures into the thousands, I would very much advise you to remember that. This isn't about the past at all, it's about what he is continuing to do, and you can't expect this to 'stop following him' so long as he hasn't made it up to the people he robbed.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
More importantly, you also cannot expect association with someone who has done such horrible things in the community not to reflect badly on your group either...

The biggest shame of it all is that he is obviously quite talented... What a waste...

Majortom, you cannot espouse a reasonable stance because of legal concerns and then post what you have above. It is frankly none of our business, as it is clearly defamation. You cannot convict someone on hearsay and a kangaroo court of people who all cry out. The Legal system of the UK and US has grown around sound tried and tested principles, case law, and the sound principle of "presumed innocence" . We need a proper legal stand on this, if Matt Bonder is convicted of an offence then by definition it is in the public domain and we can freely call him dishonest. Otherwise your intentions no matter how honourable (which I thoroughly believe they are) can be interpreted as vigilantism, victimization or as slanderous. We shouldn't encourage "nerd rage" or similiar behaviour that undermines the rule of law, the bedrock of social cohesion. How can we know that lots of people have items owed? What Evidence? How was this gathered and presented? The integrity of evidence is crucial, all i have seen thus far is claim and counter claim, and it is not even my responsibility to decide if he is guilty, that it is for Courts and Jurors to decide. We have to be reasonable and balanced and avoid the emotive response. Hearsay is not admissible in the UK, i would guess this is the same in the US.

I echo your sentiments about how sad this situation is regardless of the outcome.

mwnciboo wrote:Majortom, you cannot espouse a reasonable stance because of legal concerns and then post what you have above. It is frankly none of our business, as it is clearly defamation. You cannot convict someone on hearsay and a kangaroo court of people who all cry out. The Legal system of the UK and US has grown around sound tried and tested principles, case law, and the sound principle of "presumed innocence" . We need a proper legal stand on this, if Matt Bonder is convicted of an offence then by definition it is in the public domain and we can freely call him dishonest. Otherwise your intentions no matter how honourable (which I thoroughly believe they are) can be interpreted as vigilantism, victimization or as slanderous. We shouldn't encourage "nerd rage" or similiar behaviour that undermines the rule of law, the bedrock of social cohesion. How can we know that lots of people have items owed? What Evidence? How was this gathered and presented? The integrity of evidence is crucial, all i have seen thus far is claim and counter claim, and it is not even my responsibility to decide if he is guilty, that it is for Courts and Jurors to decide. We have to be reasonable and balanced and avoid the emotive response. Hearsay is not admissible in the UK, i would guess this is the same in the US.

I echo your sentiments about how sad this situation is regardless of the outcome.

The problem is, according to many police departments contacted, small cases of postal fraud are not worth pursuing in court.

Leaving the court of public opinion the only one he can be pursued in.

As to 'what evidence'... Voicemails, emails, public declarations from his own mouth... Admissions that he still owes stuff? If you want to see who and how many, simply back check yourself, it's all out there.

I also fail to see what inspired the tone of your response... A member of MWC posted something implying that these issues were all in the past... I corrected the statement. This is not slander, it is simply fact. You will note that at no point has anyone, anyone implied that Matt Bonder has settled all his broken deals. Nobody? Why? Because they know fine well that there are several people right here who have ample, ample proof otherwise.

I do not believe it is 'Nerd Rage' to simply acknowledge the issues... No one has threatened or even asked for punitive action that I can recall in this thread. It is quite simply a warning to the community about what MAY happen if they pursue business dealings with this man, directly or indirectly. This is the equivalent of leaving a 'got food poisoning' Internet restaurant review, so please don't blow it out of proportion. We have nothing to gain here unless you acknowledge the allegations are true. If you cant be bothered to look at the evidence amply available.... Well we must be mighty bored to make a 3 year conspiracy against some random innocent hobbyist with several other unrelated sites and people on top of it lol...


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Ideally yes though... Courts would have been great IMHO... As has been mentioned though, and to my genuine shock - the legal system in the US, at least in the effected states we know of, does not seem particularly interested in the size of money involved in individual instances... They also weren't impressed it was over 'toys'

In any case I have said all I have to on the subject, and take it seriously that my tone is being misinterpreted or exaggerated (or I failed to convey my message properly) so I will leave my contribution to this thread at that for now, I have absolutely no desire to contribute in any way steer things off course.

Ketara wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:Majortom, you cannot espouse a reasonable stance because of legal concerns and then post what you have above. It is frankly none of our business, as it is clearly defamation. You cannot convict someone on hearsay and a kangaroo court of people who all cry out. The Legal system of the UK and US has grown around sound tried and tested principles, case law, and the sound principle of "presumed innocence" . We need a proper legal stand on this, if Matt Bonder is convicted of an offence then by definition it is in the public domain and we can freely call him dishonest. Otherwise your intentions no matter how honourable (which I thoroughly believe they are) can be interpreted as vigilantism, victimization or as slanderous. We shouldn't encourage "nerd rage" or similiar behaviour that undermines the rule of law, the bedrock of social cohesion. How can we know that lots of people have items owed? What Evidence? How was this gathered and presented? The integrity of evidence is crucial, all i have seen thus far is claim and counter claim, and it is not even my responsibility to decide if he is guilty, that it is for Courts and Jurors to decide. We have to be reasonable and balanced and avoid the emotive response. Hearsay is not admissible in the UK, i would guess this is the same in the US.

I echo your sentiments about how sad this situation is regardless of the outcome.

The problem is, according to many police departments contacted, small cases of postal fraud are not worth pursuing in court.

Leaving the court of public opinion the only one he can be pursued in.

Isn't this against the US Constitution?

On the subject of evidence, I have read up on this REDSTARONE character, and all I have read is what other people have written (chiefly stories and hearsay or unsubstantiated claims), that is not evidence. It is never right just because alot of people say "X" is bad, it doesn't make it so. Think Nazi persecution of the Jews "Because Jews are evil and everyone agrees", the court of public opinion is not the court of law, otherwise everyone accused of Child Abuse would be hung from a lamp-post before ever meeting a fair trial. I understand, these are extreme examples, however food poisoning at a restaurant is an equally damaging claim and if you cannot back it up you would have to retract it. The 2nd President of the United States (A man I much admire) would never stand for such a persecution outside of the law, as a work around to the law. The Law is clear, emotionless and does not grind axes or hold grudges.

The Law is right, the enforcement of it is not.

Anyway I'm going to leave this subject well alone, as I agree with most of what Major Tom posted, hopefully this Matt Bonder will receive what he is due, "You reap what you sow".

mwnciboo wrote:Isn't this against the US Constitution? Anyway I'm going to leave this subject well alone, as I agree with most of what Major Tom posted, hopefully this Matt Bonder will receive what he is due, "You reap what you sow".

When it comes to the US Constitution, to steal a quote, 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn'.

I am British after all, the Constitution is of little concern to me.

I am British too, and I would pursue someone through the County Courts. Remember that he is from TEXAS and therefore US law (& the US Constitution) is very important & Relevant.

mwnciboo wrote:I am British too, and I would pursue someone through the County Courts. Remember that he is from TEXAS and therefore US law (& the US Constitution) is very important & Relevant.

You could attempt to pursue him, but considering the seeming uncaring attitude of both the British and American police in any dealings under five thousand pounds, you would get nowhere. Trust me, I've seen it tried on several occasions with several scammers. For matters of a few hundred, or even a thousand pounds, the police and judiciary will not act.

And when you mentioned the US constitution, I presumed you meant the court of public opinion was against the Constitution. If in actuality, you were referring to the police not caring, than I misunderstood your comment.

Ketara wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:I am British too, and I would pursue someone through the County Courts. Remember that he is from TEXAS and therefore US law (& the US Constitution) is very important & Relevant.

You could attempt to pursue him, but considering the seeming uncaring attitude of both the British and American police in any dealings under five thousand pounds, you would get nowhere. Trust me, I've seen it tried on several occasions with several scammers. For matters of a few hundred, or even a thousand pounds, the police and judiciary will not act.

And when you mentioned the US constitution, I presumed you meant the court of public opinion was against the Constitution. If in actuality, you were referring to the police not caring, than I misunderstood your comment.

To my knowledge, in every single scam incident nobody has ever physically went to the police station to file a complaint. Everything has always been done via email or phone. The case may have justification, but how do you actually prosecute. In a trial witnesses come forward and testify. Their is no assurance that a case could ever be built because of lack of witnesses.

I would expect a whole other response if you actually physically showed up at the PD to press charges.

People are arrested in this country every day for small shoplifting offenses. They all go before a judge or magistrate, and the store makes sure that all evidence is presented. Most of the time this is just a police officers testimony, but they are available to provide witnesses as necessary.

This is not a defense of the US legal system. It is only pointing out a few factors that havent been looked at.

Personally if I was scammed out of 1,000+ dollars I would be using my airline miles to fly into the town of the scammer.

I'd appreciate it if we could drop all talk of legal action, one way or another, from this thread. It has been investigated thoroughly (that is, the option of taking Matt to court) and a cursory google search of "interstate small claims court" will reveal how hard it truly would be to take it to court when it is for this amount of money across state lines. I was shocked to find this out, too... but that's how it is. Local police are a better option, but that has also been pursued as far as I know.

Regardless, the topic of this thread is Miniature Wargame Conversions involvement (or lack there of) in all of this. I.e., use of the website's name to contact people who are following up on commissions that Matt owes, use of the website to advertise his conversions for sale, and anything in that vein.

In that regard, porkuslime was able to listen to the recordings (I asked him to, as he's the only person I know of who has spoken to Matt on the phone before) that I received from "Damien", who identified himself as from MWC. Unfortunately, his conversations with Matt were a long time ago, so he cannot be certain of who is speaking... but hopefully he'll post his thoughts on it here.

In the end, the point is somewhat moot- whether it really WAS a mysterious person who has since vanished into thin air, or Matt himself- either case paints Miniature Wargame Conversions in an extremely bad light... and again, my original reason for posting is to get the word out about that and let people know that communicating with the website, particularly to send funds of any kind or to follow up on a commission, can be dangerous.

If we could focus in on the site, and not on the legal debate / possibilities, I think it'd be more helpful, and I'd appreciate it!

Can you tell us the nature of these phone calls? To judge the attitude of the people apparently running the site.

Sure, although if porkuslime does decide to post here an update in the next day or so with his thoughts on the recording, I may let him give his take on it first... as mwnciboo rightly points out, at this point it's a bit of "my word against theirs" and it would be very nice to have another person weigh in who has listened to them.

I also agree that this shouldn't be "trial by public opinion"... but I heartily disagree that there's no evidence. In the interest of not creating even MORE drama, as if we haven't had enough here, I decided not to post the recordings... and I don't think a transcript of them or emails would really help matters, either. But hopefully a third party sharing their thoughts on it will add validity.

I will say that the voicemails are extremely aggressive... the emails were, as well, and because of the tone of the emails I decided not to pick up the phone to talk to the person from MWC, and thus ended up with the recordings. It occurred to me after that I could get them off my phone, for just this very instance- in case people didn't believe what I was saying. But the language used alone would give me pause... certainly, no Business I've ever dealt with would communicate with someone that way.

I use the word Business because it was presented that way- as a person speaking on behalf of the website and the crew there, rather than simply for themselves. Also, there was obviously money involved. This is also why I agree with MajorTom's assessment that this is more a case of "I got food poisoning at that restaurant, don't go there"- and why I would like to keep it that way, focused on the website Miniature Wargame Conversions and any involvement that was attributed to it, or that was done in its' name, with or without the knowledge of the other contributors to the site.

Certainly, none of the contributors have been able to answer me as to who "Damien" or "Jeff" could be... they simply dodge the question, but I still can't understand why it doesn't concern them... hopefully, AridMonk will reply back after he follows up about these things.