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This is a really long kickstarter-- almost two months. And £300,000 is quite ambitious.

I'll be watching this, but it's too early to dive in for me.

ADB is in it seems!

https://twitter.com/adembskibowden/status/286071664373030912

Maybe they can poach him for fluff

Nice. Lets hope he starts chiming in on the forums with ideas

It was ADB's link on Facebook that made me aware of this
I'm so in....

For once I think a long KS is a smart move, as the project is in it's infancy compared with many the extra time will give it time to grow and solidify some of it's concepts

Yes I think so as well, in some ways its a true reflection of what KS was originally intended for - a way of financing developers who have some great ideas, but need the capital to help push it forward. Contrast that with releasing a product through KS which was going to be released anyway, but with the KS as a way of adding some content (although really I guess you could say that both approaches are perfectly reasonable).

Having someone like ADB support it is great for the project - of course there should be a great deal of support from GW-game players, simply because Rick was the 'Patriarch' of so many of GW's greatest (and still most popular) games and is thought of so fondly. But, they will also need to try and connect this project with that massive potential fanbase - I think doing so, and attracting the fancy of those players, could well determine the level of success of this game.

I'm a little bit iffy about it to be honest...

Ok, it's potentially awesome, but... The price points are rather large. £65 for the basic starter set. And £125 for the 'main' pledge level.

As someone how is interested purely for some nice miniatures, I will have to pass so far. I don't really care how many robot silhouettes I get or how many points I receive to buy an army that does not yet exist. The whole project seems rushed in this aspect. Limited edition model? The one just for backers? Yeah, they have no idea whatsoever of what it will look like... Take the drones for example, one colour drawing without multiple angles or anything a sculptor could make a start with. They may use the excuse that they want the communities input but is strikes me as laziness on their part at the moment.

I will be back in a month or so to see any significant progress has been made in that area. Until then, no money for them!

Hmmm, I really don't know. I'm a bit "kickstartered out", and so have to be a lot more selective now.

Spending lots of money now on "credits" for models there aren't even greens of, or in many cases, aren't even concept art of... just isn't a safe enough bet for me. It actually reminds me a bit of Blue Table Painting's KS where you were pledging for painting credits... not for me.

The stretch goals so far aren't very inspiring either. When they hit $500,000 they're going to add... a single one part model to the $100 pledge.

Backed for the 190 feeder collectors edition. Can always reduce or increase later if needed but for now, happy to have a limited edition slot.

The guys involved have a good pedigree, I'll give them a shot.

Needs more concept art and info.

I just spent 5 minutes skim-reading the page and still have no idea what material the miniatures are made out of.

There's a lot of marketing speil and not a lot of cutting to the point on the KS page.

First, they bang on for 10 paragraphs about the online aspect of the gaming, then go on to ramble on about the kickstarter exclusive mini for a while.

*Then* we get to some actual info.

- Four game factions are Humans, Cyborgs, Monkeys and Reavers.

Then, some stuff about Fluid combat systems I don't understand, *yet more* pimping of the online real-time element, and finally this nugget of info:

- Game uses d10s and d100s.

That's good, I like d10's.

Then, a MASSIVE section banging on about the new company called Dark Space Corp and all of its numerous employees and their numerous achievements.

Then, some confusing stuff about their Credits system for the KS.

Then, finally, right at the bottom, all the concept art of the new minis that I actually want to see.

A few lessons in being succinct would serve them well.

EDIT: Eh, some of these pledge levels are a bit crappy. £70 for a rulebook and a single miniature? Even GW isn't that bad!

£125 for 90 single-piece minis? OR 40 single-piece and 25 multi-piece minis? No thankyou. I'd like a lot more variety than just 40 Wardrones in the basic kit.

@ScarletSquig
The wardrones are hard plastic, supposedly multi-part, multi-pose etc; production/logistics will be done by warlord games on everything; the credits models will probably be metal.

Game sounds like it uses either alternate unit activation or something like infinity's ARO system or some combination of such elements - but maybe it'll go more the 2nd ed 40k overwatch route.

I've tried to ask about the wardrones but most they can confirm is they'll post some greens before the end of the project and they'll *try* to have the wardrones amongst those.

I'm in for feeder level but I'll say it's a bit of a gamble as far as I'm concerned; they REALLY have to show some more stuff before the end...

 Bolognesus wrote:
@ScarletSquig
The wardrones are hard plastic, supposedly multi-part, multi-pose etc; production/logistics will be done by warlord games on everything; the credits models will probably be metal.

I don't understand this last part... some models plastic, but the "credits models" (the ones you're pledging for?) will be metal?

This whole idea if pledging for "credits" for models without even art is a step even further up the chain than any Kickstarter I can really think of...

Not touching this til I see a good range of miniature concepts at the very least, preferably at least dozen actual sculpts. At the very least they should have had the wardrones sorted as they are the fixed miniature component for the starters.

Nono, you get either 20 or 40 wardrones in the 65 ad 125 levels respectively, and either 240 or 500 credits on top of that.
Those credits are used to pick models besides the 'basic' troopers (wardrones).

You basically get the core models and pick the flavour yourself.
I kind of like it - keeps the cookie-cutter level down a bit and will allow me to avoid models which I might not like.
To each his own, though!

 scarletsquig wrote:


EDIT: Eh, some of these pledge levels are a bit crappy. £70 for a rulebook and a single miniature? Even GW isn't that bad!

Umm.. rulebook (270 pages full colour) + mini is only £25,-

Same price as GW's 90 page full-colour Crusade of Fire, no mini, or what Mantic charges for their thin 144 page Kings of War rulebook, also no mini.

AlexHolker wrote:The stretch goals so far aren't very inspiring either. When they hit $500,000 they're going to add... a single one part model to the $100 pledge.

I believe I read a comment by Rick that the bonuses are just bare bones at present - as new concept art/rules notes are released and the game starts to take shape, these are going to be padded out into something more comprehensive. So, I guess it's a case of 'watch this space'!

Bolognesus wrote:@ScarletSquig

Game sounds like it uses either alternate unit activation or something like infinity's ARO system or some combination of such elements - but maybe it'll go more the 2nd ed 40k overwatch route.

I'm in for feeder level but I'll say it's a bit of a gamble as far as I'm concerned; they REALLY have to show some more stuff before the end...

Again from what I've read the alternative-activation sequence will be a bit more involved than overwatch/countercharge or whatever. Rick commented on their boards said that he's conscious about confusing the turn sequence, but is very keen to have a reaction type turn mechanic - although to be honest has there been a game designed in the past decade that hasn't used this system at some point?

Thanks for explaining that, Bolognesus! It's pretty confusing on the page...

@Bolognesus: Yeah, they need a ton more concept art, and soon... from the sounds of it they want the community to design the miniatures as it mentions that they will use art sent in by the backer development community?

It's looking a bit bare at the moment, it wouldn't have killed them to do concept art for all minis and 1 or 2 greens (resin cast and painted) in advance.

If they're going to charge full retail and offer no or minimal rewards with their KS, then there needs to be a basic level of stuff already done, otherwise it gives off the impression that the creators don't have a lot of faith in the project themselves.
High-ticket video game Kickstarters often need a complete alpha build or gameplay video in place before anyone takes them seriously.

There's a bit too much "I am Rick Priestly, therefore this will be awesome" (the first paragraph even states "this is all in Rick's head at the moment") and not enough of the stuff that matters.

Hell, there is a Fighting Fantasy Kickstarter going at the moment (with a goal of £15k!), where a £500 pledge gets you lunch with Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone, founders of GW.

That's a nice, modest use of celebrity status compared to this, which has a lot hanging on the "this will rock because Rick" factor.

It'll be interesting to see if this pans out. They need £5k (~$8k) per day in pledges on average on each and every day for this to work out.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for explaining that, Bolognesus! It's pretty confusing on the page...

Yeah, I know. Try telling that to the guys running it though - doesn't exactly get through their skulls, it seems. Shame - I think this and the lack of a few models (something they *really* could have done easily with those folks involved...) to show will really hamper this project to the tune of somewhere in the six figures...

@ScarletSquig
I'd be surprised if these were the retail prices, though.
Breaking down feeder through the add-on prices we get 2xGBP24=GBP48 for the 40 wardrones (GBP1,20/mini is pretty reasonable - above mantic levels but still quite competitive) and GBP25 for the rulebook - a total of 73 quid. total price is 125quid and that includes shipping within the UK - let's say GBP5 (I know for sure this thing will cost more than GBP7 to ship to me in NL already - let alone the US so this is actually a lowball estimate). That means you pay 47 quid (let's say 50) for the 500 credits and get the 'KS exclusive' model free.

GBP 1,- for 10 credits means you either get 'basic' metal models for GBP 1 each or really complex stuff, models on bikes etc for GBP 5. Really, that doesn't scream 'full retail pricing' to me - not even for warlord!
Most likely, you'll get a bunch of the 10 cred models and a few higher-up things - 20 or so models, and as you can see the stretch goals beyond the 300K are only 25 K apart for the first few - the chance of this getting over 300K, but only barely, is slim so it'll probably meet a couple of those, adding more stuff. Maybe not insanely much but an extra model here and there which, unlike most KS projects, you get to essentially choose out of the entire range (therefore providing a hell of a lot more 'value' in use - I love my bunch of KoW pledges but even with, at that point, 4 or 5 armies I'm going to have to trade a craptonne of stuff I have no use whatsoever for away...), will make it concretely nicer for everyone with every stretch.

Not seeing how you make this out to be paying full retail?
Okay, the GBP65 level is distinctly less awesome but even that, I think, is *probably* below MSRP

The best thing about the kickstarter is that there will be electronic versions of the rules. The strange thing is that the higher pledge levels gain the physical copy and lose the PDF. They should just give everyone who pledges for a physical rulebook a copy of the electronic one as well. Some behind the times thinking there.

 agustin wrote:
The strange thing is that the higher pledge levels gain the physical copy and lose the PDF.

...which levels would that be? The first level containing the regular rulebook is Feeder and since that Feeder box is included in, I believe, all higher pledge levels, and contains 'access' to the digital rulebook - I think every higher-level pledge gets the digital copy. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. It's been known to happen

Big Bang! is included in higher tiers, but not The Beginning!. Big Bang! has the alpha and beta PDF, but not the 270p final PDF. Only The Beginning! pledge has the PDF of the rulebook and none of the higher tier rewards include The Beginning! as part of them.

Check the pledge descriptions again. the feeder box is explicitly described as containing the digital download.
All higher pledge levels contain that Feeder box.

Which high pledge levels do not contain the digital download, according to you?

Managed to snag one of the £120 pledges in the early hours, I've got high hopes for this one, looking forward to seeing the concepts solidifying, me and the other half are already deciding which faction to snag.

Maybe it's just me but I can't see this hitting 300k pounds. That's a huge goal, especially with so little info and no tempting stretch goals

I just can't get past the fact that they're asking for £300,000 ($487,000) and expecting the people paying the money to design a lot of their figures, rules and artwork, it just seems like a crazy business model to me. I wish them luck, but I can't buy into vapourware, no matter who will eventually be making it. This Kickstarter feels like it's being done at least a year earlier than it should be.

darrkespur wrote:
I just can't get past the fact that they're asking for £300,000 ($487,000) and expecting the people paying the money to design a lot of their figures, rules and artwork, it just seems like a crazy business model to me. I wish them luck, but I can't buy into vapourware, no matter who will eventually be making it. This Kickstarter feels like it's being done at least a year earlier than it should be.

See. I'm sat on the other side of this fence. I think the kickstarter is great and love the idea of getting involved this early in the process as it means I've actually got a say in how the universe and models pan out. We've seen with Sedition wars that they didn't seem to actually want feedback on the sketches and greens they showed; this project on the other hand really does. Yes, the production costs are high, but there have been higher goals... if it doesn't reach it, then you've not lost anything by backing it. If it does... the rules discussed so far on the forum seem like a great concept and the models don't seem particularly pricy for what you are getting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Which high pledge levels do not contain the digital download, according to you?

To be pedantic, the new Collectors Singularity Hansa level at £305 doesn't, but anything that mentions Feeder in it's description certainly does.

 scarletsquig wrote:
@Bolognesus: Yeah, they need a ton more concept art, and soon... from the sounds of it they want the community to design the miniatures as it mentions that they will use art sent in by the backer development community?

It's looking a bit bare at the moment, it wouldn't have killed them to do concept art for all minis and 1 or 2 greens (resin cast and painted) in advance.
.

Yes, although the whole purpose of this KS is that it will be very much 'for the people, by the people', it's not just as simple as knocking up some random greens and saying "ok give us money", and to do so would kind of defeat the purpose - using the guys they have on board for design (and they have some real talent involved here) we should be seeing some concept sketches soon, and then these will either get a 'yay' or 'nay' in terms of community consensus and whether people might want to play or use that race, perhaps with some alterations. Presumably then we will be less likely to get something like the 'Skinnies' from Starship troopers (or Squats - ho ho ho ) or some other race that most people will have no interest in. So, possibly the best of both worlds in that regard, although the price to pay is that it needs some community involvement. I suppose the truth will tell whether this gets enough backers, and hindsight will indicate if it was overly ambitious and doomed to failure, or an astute move!

One thing's for sure and that is it's already getting a lot of interest and topics being posted on their forums, a lot of enthusiasm, and a lot of ideas being thrown about. At the time of writing it's hit £22,000 which isn't bad for the first day - be interesting to see if that is sustained over the next week or so, and whether this KS has endurance. I'm guessing though we are going to be getting a lot more stretch goals and a lot more details soon?