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Actually, a GK grand Master is similar. Terminator armor, plus iron halo, plus force sword (so 2+ and 3++ in cc), plus grand strategy is 175. I think he's also a psyker, but the power is hammerhand if I remember correctly.

I think 205 is better for Vulkan, mainly because I need to add in the Salamander USR.

A docterine he gives
The hunt for 9 15 points per 5 man unit or HQ unit
This unit infantery only is scoring.
He has it automaticly

wargey wrote:
A docterine he gives
The hunt for 9 15 points per 5 man unit or HQ unit
This unit infantery only is scoring.
He has it automaticly

Again, this is unbalanced. The whole thing about needing troops choices to score is an integral part of the game. Being able to shell out 15pts to make everything scoring breaks this notion that only troops can score.

And I still think Vulkan shouldn't be scoring, but stick to a plain D3 units may become scoring, exactly as Grand Strategy in C: GK.

Also, McNinja, 205pts sounds reasonable as well, I did mention I was good with 25pts +/- 5pts.

What are troops any way
Ok D3 and valkun if valkun has a objective for 1 tern he can't shoot as he is busy try to see if it is a artifact of valkun

wargey wrote:
What are troops any way

You were making your own fandex without knowing THIS!?
One of the most basic rules in 40k. You need 2 troops and an HQ to form a legal army in games of at least 600+.

I recommend you read through your C:SM and the 6th edition rulebook again...

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
What are troops any way

You were making your own fandex without knowing THIS!?
One of the most basic rules in 40k. You need 2 troops and an HQ to form a legal army in games of at least 600+.

I recommend you read through your C:SM and the 6th edition rulebook again...

I think he meant the troops in this particular fandex....

 washout77 wrote:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
What are troops any way

You were making your own fandex without knowing THIS!?
One of the most basic rules in 40k. You need 2 troops and an HQ to form a legal army in games of at least 600+.

I recommend you read through your C:SM and the 6th edition rulebook again...

I think he meant the troops in this particular fandex....

Could be... I still think that is odd. They should be tacticals and scouts. I assume so.

I no what troops are I ment in this fandex what are troops because it might be differant like in mine.

wargey wrote:
I no what troops are I ment in this fandex what are troops because it might be differant like in mine.

Well, what are the troops in yours?
I'm pretty sure they are just tactical squads here.

I'm not up on Vulcan's fluff, but is he in current possession of all those of the 9 he has discovered? If not, some of them could be added in as unique one/army gear.

1 of the nine is a battlebarge, this could be used as an orbital bombardment, for... 30pts ish

 Formosa wrote:
1 of the nine is a battlebarge, this could be used as an orbital bombardment, for... 30pts ish

All right.
I guess the unique wargear department might end up rather... skinny then.

On another note, what are the other 8?

 Formosa wrote:
On another note, what are the other 8?

Isn't at least one of those included in Vulcan's wargear? The spear maybe? Or was it a mantle?

Troops in this fan dex are tactical and scouts, same as in Codex space Marines. I've been working all weekend, and I work all day tomorrow, so sorry for the lack of updates! I'll get to it tonight, if I have enough time.

Born in Fire: Surrounded by flames since birth, Salamanders are conditioned to casually ignore the searing temperatures that would otherwise severely burn or kill other Space Marines. All Salamanders gain Feel no Pain against Flamer weapons of all types.
--
Stubborn
--
And They Shall Know no Fear
--
Acute Vision: Due to the darkness that surrounds them constantly, Salamanders, and indeed many of the people of Nocturne, have a sort of night vision. When the Night Fighting rules are in play, Salamanders see normally up 24". Between 24" and 36" enemy units have the Stealth special rule, and beyond 36" they have the Shrouded special rule. Salamanders cannot see past 48" during Night Fighting.
--
Slower than Normal: While still much faster than a normal human, Salamanders are not a quick as their Space Marine brethren. Against enemy Space Marines (including Chaos Space Marines, with the exception of Plague Marines), Salamanders count as having an Initiative of 3.
--
Ancient Enemies: The Dark Eldar have long been a thorn in the Salamanders side, with their raids of Nocturne stretching back to the Great Crusade. As a consequence, the Salamanders have become rather proficient at fighting the Dark Eldar, and therefor all Salamanders gain both Preferred Enemy (Dark Eldar) and Hatred (Dark Eldar).

Way to big disadvantage for the advantages listed.
Back in the old days when salamanders were I3 they got free thunderhammers on chaplains and the choice to take one last turn or not, those were powerful things balancing out the I3. This is just a negative sum.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, suggest a rule that allows for an all terminator army. Fluff says they have 120 veterans contrary to the usual codex 100 and also a LOT of terminator armour.
They (according to BL) also field their entire 1 company as terminators.

Would be really nice with a Tushan-wing option.

Interesting, Pyriel, I hadn't considered giving Chaplain more options for some reason. I'll mull over the Tu'shan-wing idea... I don't know about having yet another army that can go all terminator. Maybe with some restrictions, like not fielding Vanguard or Sternguard, just Terminators.

Also, about the negative sum, keep in mind Salamanders in the this 'dex have a lot more access to Melta and Flamer weaponry, and a lot more resistance to Flamers and such. If you also have any wargear suggestions, let me know, I'm always open to ideas!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
On another note, what are the other 8?

Isn't at least one of those included in Vulcan's wargear? The spear maybe? Or was it a mantle?

According to the Wiki He'Stan wields 3 of the 5 artefacts recovered. The spear, the flamer gauntlet, and the mantle. The ship remains around Prometheus, due to it being a Forgeship, not a Battle Barge.

In the fluff valkun made 9 artifacts for his sons to find only for 4 dose he'stan search for the others have bean found by the forgefarthers before him he weild 3 kasserase mantle the hid of the legandery drake valkun defeted when having his contest with the emporah.
The gauntlet of the foge a aromurd gauntlet who molten rage none can endure.
The spear of valkun don't think there is any fluff on this
2 ramain on prometus. The calice of fire the chapters forge ship that suplys the chapter with its wepons of war.
The eye of valkun this orbital defence relay defends promeathus
4 dose he search for the engine of woes, the song of entophy, the obsidian chariot (thought to be found by one of there predesessors.) And the unbound flame (at one stage was belived it was dak'ir.

Formosa wrote:1 of the nine is a battlebarge, this could be used as an orbital bombardment, for... 30pts ish

The ship you're referring to is a forge ship, but it remains at anchor over Prometheus and would likely never be used for any sort of bombardment.

Pyriel- wrote:
Way to big disadvantage for the advantages listed.
Back in the old days when salamanders were I3 they got free thunderhammers on chaplains and the choice to take one last turn or not, those were powerful things balancing out the I3. This is just a negative sum.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, suggest a rule that allows for an all terminator army. Fluff says they have 120 veterans contrary to the usual codex 100 and also a LOT of terminator armour.
They (according to BL) also field their entire 1 company as terminators.

Would be really nice with a Tushan-wing option.

You probably just skimmed over it quickly, but Tu'shan has the ability to purchase terminator armour for +25pts which unlocks terminators as troops, allowing for a full blown Tu'shan wing.

Also, the I3 against marines is fine, its a drawback certainly, but its nowhere near being a crippling disadvantage. At best its a minor nuisance, but the other abilities the chapter has help to cancel that out. Besides, its better to err on the side of underpowered first, and adjust later. I think its fluffy while still being mostly balanced by the advantages the chapter brings.

wargey wrote:In the fluff valkun made 9 artifacts for his sons to find only for 4 dose he'stan search for the others have bean found by the forgefarthers before him he weild 3 kasserase mantle the hid of the legandery drake valkun defeted when having his contest with the emporah.
The gauntlet of the foge a aromurd gauntlet who molten rage none can endure.
The spear of valkun don't think there is any fluff on this
2 ramain on prometus. The calice of fire the chapters forge ship that suplys the chapter with its wepons of war.
The eye of valkun this orbital defence relay defends promeathus
4 dose he search for the engine of woes, the song of entophy, the obsidian chariot (thought to be found by one of there predesessors.) And the unbound flame (at one stage was belived it was dak'ir.

You need to put in a lot more effort in your basic spelling. That was legitimately hard to read. Spend the extra two minutes and proofread your work. I've typed countless of posts using my phone and my spelling/punctuation/grammar never suffered because I spent the extra time to make it legible.

Let me put it this way; why would I put in any of my time and effort into responding to you if you won't even take the time and effort to make even a small effort at typing properly. Its about respect, show us you care enough to take the time to spell and punctuate. On a 40k board, spelling 'emporah' is just not on. Not to mention every other word in your post. Please, take the extra time and make every single post you write legible and properly written.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Back in the old days when salamanders were I3 they got free thunderhammers on chaplains and the choice to take one last turn or not, those were powerful things balancing out the I3. This is just a negative sum.

Yeah, but since they also use lots of TH, this I3 against marines doesn't really affect their strongest units.
Maybe it COULD be changed to "-1I against marines", but definitely not a necessity. Just to make sure the characters are also affected.

I can never spell the big E's name that's why I either spell it emporah like others have or big E.

Just remember Emp-er-or.

Or "da floofiest" works as well, but only in my head.

 McNinja wrote:

Or "da floofiest" works as well, but only in my head.

An... interesting.... nickname that one....

Right I have a good set for the firedrakes on my thread normal termies and assult termies are troops and a specialist termies as elites bit ilke with deathwing have termies as troops and dethwing nights my one has normal termies assult termies and drake warriors.
Do you want me to send it over.

wargey wrote:
Right I have a good set for the firedrakes on my thread normal termies and assult termies are troops and a specialist termies as elites bit ilke with deathwing have termies as troops and dethwing nights my one has normal termies assult termies and drake warriors.
Do you want me to send it over.

I'd say all Salamanders terminators are Firedrakes. The same way as all SW termies are Wolf Guard.
Getting access to terminator armor is an honor beyond anything, save for being elected as a captain or a chapter master. It is the same for Salamanders too, even if they do have more TDA.

Thus, a small buff for tactical- and assault terminator is all that is needed to represent Firedrake terminators.

Here are the ones nail told me to use you could remove dragons ire
Elites
Promethean Firedrakes
1 terminator leader 4 terminators 225 points.

Special Rules:
And They Shall know no fear
Combat Squads
War Smiths: Units with the war smiths rules may chose one melee weapon in the unit and make it master crafted. Make shure this is noted on the armylist and shown on the model.

Dragons Ire: If the opposing forces prove hard the Salamanders will send in the most elite fighters. The dragons ire will smack down like a river of glowing onyx. If you take salamander fire drakes you cannot take terminator or assault terminators in your army. This represents the salamanders focus of slamming down the hammer.

All of them have TDA.
The leadear would have a stormbolter and your choise of poverweapon. (Sword, mace, axe and spear and for 20pts a thunder hammer)

Each terminator may chose one of the following compositions:
1 storm bolter and Powerfist
2 Ligntning Claws
1 Stormshield and 1 thundhammer

For each 5 models in the unit 1 model with a stormbolter and powerfist may chose one of the following:

Exchange the storm bolter for an Assault Cannon. 30 points.
Exchange the storm bolter for an an heavy flamer 5 points.
Exchange the storm bolter for an multi melta 15 points.
May take a cyclone missile launcher for 30 points

Can up to 5 temrinators for 44 points per terminator.

You may mastercraft one or more weapons in your unit at the cost of 5 points per weapon. Be shure to note this on the army rooster and shown on the model.

One unit in your army may take a landraider as a dedicated transport."

They seam ok to use what do you think McNinja

 McNinja wrote:
Interesting, Pyriel, I hadn't considered giving Chaplain more options for some reason. I'll mull over the Tu'shan-wing idea... I don't know about having yet another army that can go all terminator. Maybe with some restrictions, like not fielding Vanguard or Sternguard, just Terminators.

Also, about the negative sum, keep in mind Salamanders in the this 'dex have a lot more access to Melta and Flamer weaponry, and a lot more resistance to Flamers and such. If you also have any wargear suggestions, let me know, I'm always open to ideas!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
On another note, what are the other 8?

Isn't at least one of those included in Vulcan's wargear? The spear maybe? Or was it a mantle?

According to the Wiki He'Stan wields 3 of the 5 artefacts recovered. The spear, the flamer gauntlet, and the mantle. The ship remains around Prometheus, due to it being a Forgeship, not a Battle Barge.

Here is a nice take on the fluff for you to ponder on.

During the istvan massacre the first legions down (salamanders among them) rushed. They were basically all infantry and struck the first blow while the traitors behind them brought down armour and fortified for the second strike.

After istvan all legions were divided except the Salamanders who were to few.
Now here is the interesting part, the salamanders lost their infantry and not their armoury and contrary to the other legions the salamander legion armoury was never split up and shared among all the of spring chapters.

This actually means that the salamanders, not only have excellent ties with the machanicus (canon fluff) as well as excellent abilities to produce almost everything they use (also canon fluff) but they do also have the single biggest stockpile of heavy and specialist equipment of all chapters since they didnt lose it in the massacre and their legion sized armoury was never split up.

The fluff also indicates (and BL fluff outright tells) that they do possess more then a hundred terminator suits.


So if you want to be logical about it the salamanders have an abundance of all rare, specialist etc wargear and equipment back from the legion days.

wargey wrote:
Here are the ones nail told me to use you could remove dragons ire

Now, there's really two ways of going about with the fire drakes, well I guess three. Because its almost best to start with a template from a marine codex when making a marine unit, you can use either a C:SM terminator squad, a C: DA deathwing terminator squad, or use a Wold Guard squad as a template.

Personally, I'd just the ordinary Vanilla terminators and add the option to take a Multi-melta (and I guess flamestorm cannon, as McNinja has already written for the entry). Simple, easy, and still represents them as veterans of the chapter.

If you go the deathwing route to make them that little more special, then you can swap a few things around to make them salamandery. Would look something like this;

Firedrakes Terminator Squad
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 2+/5++

Wargear
Terminator Armour
Storm Bolter
Power Fist (Deathwing terminator only)
Power Sword (Deathwing Term Sergeant only)

Special Rules
Hammer of Vulkan (replaces Deathwing assault, but does the exact same thing)
Split Fire
Promethean Cult
Anvil of War (replaces vengeful strike, explained below)

Priced at 44pts/model, and has the normal wargear options. May swap normal loadout for pair of lightning claws for free, and TH/SS for +5pts (though to be honest, being Sallies, I think the TH/SS option should be free, and the lightning claws +5pts for fluff reasons). Any model may take a chainfist for +5pts. Then they can do the normal heavy weapon swap as detailed in the original post.

Firedrake Terminators may select a Land Raider of any type as a dedicated transport. This vehicle must be given the armoured ceramite upgrade.

Hammer of Vulkan: When the Firedrakes are deployed, they strike together as one in the name of Vulkan. (Literally identical to the deathwing assault rule, just add in your own fluff for it)
Anvil of War: Firedrakes are sent on the most difficult and testing of missions. They meet their enemy head on with unflinching resolve and break them on them on the anvil of war. On the first round of assault during the game, all Firedrakes may re-roll any failed hits with thunderhammers during the first round of assault only. (This replaces the vengeful strike rule, which allows DA to count their shooting as TL on the turn they arrive, figured a more hammer-y rule was needed)
Promethean Cult The firedrakes spend their time isolated on Prometheus, all the better to perfect themselves in the way of the Promethean Cult. All Firedrakes are Stubborn and have Preferred Enemy: Dark Eldar. (This replaces Inner Circle, which grants fearless and PE: Chaos)

Now, I'm partial to just using ordinary terminator squads with a MM option due to its simplicity, but using the Deathwing squads as a template allows for a nice fluffier (though more complex) squad to represent the firedrakes.

Man, you guys are awesome. When I have the chance I'll throw in the Fire Drake stuff and fix up the rest of the army adjustments.

That sounds cool could we make a unit like the dethwing kinghts too as it would be realy cool we could use them to represent the prye gaurd and have a Termonator comand squad that can have the chapter banner. It would fit the fluff.

So:
Tactical Terminators
Assault Terminators
Firedrake Terminators/Prye Guard
Termie Command Squad (possibly)

Are we decided on those FA choices?
How about troops and Hvy Support?