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I was thinking more
Firedrakes= what blacksails made
Inferno gaurd= a salamander version of the deathwing knights
Chapter comand squad= a salamander version of termie comand squad(dark angles)

That would work out too.
But, how would the DW Knights' weapons be confered to Sallies? I'm not so caught on in the fluff you see.

I haven't sean the rules for dwk all I heard about was sheild wall and I instantly liked them.
Blacksails can you make a sallie DWK rules.


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I haven't sean the rules for dwk all I heard about was sheild wall and I instantly liked them.
Blacksails can you make a sallie DWK rules. Because I go power over points so can some one put a few ideas forward.

The only troops are those listed under the troops heading in the army adjustments section, unless we can think of one than just scouts and tacs.

I started with a salamanders vanilla marines army back in 5th ed, but once I read the books, I became fascinated with Marines Malevolent. My take is that they are the remnants of the lost second legion and they are searching for their lost gene-seed...

Your 'Mander rules make me pine for a green army again...

We were going to have firedrakes as troops McNinja (well at least that is what we were thinking)

wargey wrote:
We were going to have firedrakes as troops McNinja (well at least that is what we were thinking)

They won't be troops. They will be elites.

They can be unlocked as troops by Tu'shan if he purchases terminator armour for +25pts.

The gean seed of the 2 legion was destroyed by the forces of chaos I think they are related to the smurf marrines.


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Yes that was what I was thinking but I have never read of Tu'Shan wereing TDA blacksails do you have a idea for a salamander dethwing knight sq because I can't seem to think of any thing.

wargey wrote:



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Yes that was what I was thinking but I have never read of Tu'Shan wereing TDA blacksails do you have a idea for a salamander dethwing knight sq because I can't seem to think of any thing.

Tu'shan is a chapter master of one of the most respected and well equipped chapter in the Imperium. He can do whatever the hell he wants, including the wearing of TDA. He's never mentioned as wearing it, because honestly, there's not a lot written about it. Same way Calgar can go between TDA and power armour. Totally reasonable and plausible.

Honestly, I don't think there needs to be a 'Deathwing Knight squad' equivalent for the Sallies. There's nothing in Salamander's fluff that would remotely come to close to filling the role of deathwing knights. I also believe that less is more, and we shouldn't be making a squad, item of wargear, or character for everything that has, will, or might have existed.

The basic list for units should look something like this:

HQ
Tu'shan
Bray'arth Ashmantle
Captain Pellas Mir'san
Generic Captain
Generic Librarian
Generic Chaplain
Generic Master of the Forge
Honour Guard squad (with a few changes)
Command Squad (one in power armour, as per current C:SM, and an additional terminator command squad from C: DA)
Maybe one or two more special characters, like Pyriel, or something

Troops
Tactical Squad
Scout squad

Elites
Firedrake Terminators (this replaces both flavours of terminators in the standard C:SM)
Dreadnoughts of all flavours (including contemptors)
Techmarines
Sternguard Veterans

Fast Attack (Limit of 0-1 per FA choice, OR reduce FA to two slots, whatever McNinja wants)
Assault Squad
Vanguard Veterans
Land Speeders
Land Speeder Storms
Bike squads
Attack bike squads
Scout bike squads
Storm Talon
Storm Eagle or Storm Raven

Heavy support
Predators of all variants and types
Land Raiders of all variants and types
Devs
Thunderfire Cannons
Whirlwind
Vindicator

That should be the entire army list. I might have missed one or two units, but I don't think there needs to be any more additions. Pretty much what C:SM has, plus one or two additions/swaps and the inclusion of a number of FW units, like the Pred Infernus, Contemptor dreads, and the Storm Eagle.

I thought Contemptors are mainly for apoc games?

How do we represent there elite of elites the prye gaurd all but destroyed sme still are in action that's what I wanted the DWK to represent have it in Tu'Shans rules that he may have 2 units of prye gaurd as elites have them built from the DWK rules.
But it is up to McNinja if he wants deathwing knights to be tearned in to prye gaurd I think it fits the fluff to have 2 units of the most elite troops.


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There is also herath shen master of the apothocarion defender of the last vualt.

Not everything needs to be represented. Some things might look cool in the books and fluff, but might no work out on TT.

LlamaAgility wrote:I thought Contemptors are mainly for apoc games?

Nope, 100% playable in 40k games (of course, notify your opponent ahead of the game, but seeing as this is a fan dex, you'd be doing it anyways). In fact, the Contemptor Mortis patten is an effective means of bringing some AA on to the table. That and they look awesome.

LlamaAgility wrote:Not everything needs to be represented. Some things might look cool in the books and fluff, but might no work out on TT.

Yup, exactly this. Firedrakes are just fine being represented by a single entry. No need for even more special units.

Ok. Stop with the ideas. I need to catch up!

 McNinja wrote:
Ok. Stop with the ideas. I need to catch up!

You can't tell me what to do!

In regards to the Fast Attack options, is only being allowed 0-1 of each better than only being allowed two slots total?

I would say 2 FA slots, because they use more than 1 assult SQ per company there is only 1 company that has no assult SQ it has 8 tactical SQ and 4 deverstater SQ so rmove bike option becuse they can't train with them.

Ok, so no scout, attack, or regular bikes. I should replace those with Storm Ravens and storm talon entries.

Librarians should be required to select at least one power from the Pyromancy table.

Also, you could give the option for the Predator to field the Heavy Flamer sponsons from the Baal Predator.

I do think this may be more than the Salamanders need. I frankly think a perfectly good Salamanders codex could consist of Vulkan He'stan's Chapter Tactics (without the need to buy him), Ceramite Armor, -1 I across the board, Pyromancy required for Librarians, a limitation on Fast Attack, and some cheaper Flamers. I think the -1 initiative and the requirement to select a Pyromancy power (instead of the generally preferable Precognition/Telepathy powers) would offset the bonuses of the Chapter Tactics. But, if you're going full-on, I think you've got good ideas. Not a favor of giving them the DW Assault ability, though, as that should be DA only in my book.

wargey wrote:I would say 2 FA slots, because they use more than 1 assult SQ per company there is only 1 company that has no assult SQ it has 8 tactical SQ and 4 deverstater SQ so rmove bike option becuse they can't train with them.

Errr, not quite wargey. They have bikes, and can use them. Don't remove them entirely.

McNinja wrote:Ok, so no scout, attack, or regular bikes. I should replace those with Storm Ravens and storm talon entries.

To go with what I said above, here's how I see it.

Salamanders still make use of common 'fast attack' units, including assault squads, bikes, speeders, and scouts. Due to the nature of the planet, they're not remotely as favoured as other chapters, but are still used due to the valuable nature of them in certain situations. They are still a nearly 100% codex adherent chapter, and as such, make use of all the options available to them as prescribed by the codex.

The best way to represent their lack of favour with FA choices is to simply limit every entry in the FA section to 0-1 and remove the option for speeders to be taken in squadrons. This way, you can still take three FA choices (say an assault squad, a speeder, and a scout bike squad), but can't spam multiple speeders or bike squads.

Salamanders still see the need for fast reaction units, they'd just rather use other means first.

When I finally get in my laptop in an hour ill make some more adjustments.


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Ok, finished up the Firedrake Terminators, changed what the Hammer of Vulkan is/does, and added a special thanks hooha underneath Army Adjustments.

McNinja: It is obviously not RAI, but as you have it written now, your Tac squads can still take a heavy and a specialist weapon, in addition to the heavy/hand flamer.

 Lord Magnus wrote:
McNinja: It is obviously not RAI, but as you have it written now, your Tac squads can still take a heavy and a specialist weapon, in addition to the heavy/hand flamer.

I think those melta-pistols and hand flamers should be restricted to sergeants. Maybe then (no offence) someone would use them.

It would seem to me like you have enough units to start play testing. How about going to town with your codex?

 Niiai wrote:
It would seem to me like you have enough units to start play testing. How about going to town with your codex?

Good idea. I'm quite sure they'd play this too. From what I've read, it seems quite balanced.

Anyone up for testing this on Vassal?

I will ask at my loacal GW if I can play test it.
Can I still use master herath shen by forge world because he is not in the army list.

wargey wrote:
I will ask at my loacal GW if I can play test it.
Can I still use master herath shen by forge world because he is not in the army list.

Actually, even if you could, you shouldn't. You should just use what's in this dex. That allows for better playtesting.

LlamaAgility wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:
McNinja: It is obviously not RAI, but as you have it written now, your Tac squads can still take a heavy and a specialist weapon, in addition to the heavy/hand flamer.

I think those melta-pistols and hand flamers should be restricted to sergeants. Maybe then (no offence) someone would use them.

Hahaha true. Fixed it. Regardless of whether or not they get used, they are there simply for fluff reasons. If someone feels they provide an advantage in-game, cool.

Lord Magnus wrote:McNinja: It is obviously not RAI, but as you have it written now, your Tac squads can still take a heavy and a specialist weapon, in addition to the heavy/hand flamer.

Fixed.


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Let me know how the play testing goes! I do not have enough time to play test it myself, so anyone who wants to do so is more than welcome to!

Anyone playtested this yet?