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I need to ask: Does vulcan make evrything twin linked? Withouth taking anything away? That sounds mean. He is very mean usualy. But now? Your entier army has an overflow of melta/flamers.

 Niiai wrote:
I need to ask: Does vulcan make evrything twin linked? Withouth taking anything away? That sounds mean. He is very mean usualy. But now? Your entier army has an overflow of melta/flamers.

I did not even think of this. He is right.
How about you just remove that twin-linking/master crafting thing and drop the price range?

 Niiai wrote:
I need to ask: Does vulcan make evrything twin linked? Withouth taking anything away? That sounds mean. He is very mean usualy. But now? Your entier army has an overflow of melta/flamers.

i pointed this out in the other thread but between the arguing it got lost lol

but yeah i would suggest dropping chapter tactics altogether and just keep combat tactics.

Make vulkan's pts cost go down from 190 to...oh idk, 150? or 130 maybe?

because at this point the only thing he is bring with him is his relic blade and hand flamer. He already has a 2+ and a 3++ so he is pretty much a term captain with better weapons.

Vulcane is INSANE in combat. Have you ever fought him? He has sutch good saves, a relic blade and he has a heavy flamer. People are caling the new hurom vulcan.02 for a reason. He has all that makes vulcan sutch a good unit multiplyer, even withouth his twin linked madnes.

no haha i know how good he is, thats why i run him. but thats why i said lose his chapter tactics buff and drop his points down to like 150, at that point he would be above par with a term captain, which he should be.

OR

option 2, keep his rules, but make him cost like...230.

Have a differant rule that is worth the same

wargey wrote:
Have a differant rule that is worth the same

What would you suggest then? I'm not trying to tackle your ideas to the floor, but I'm curious and interested about what you had in mind.
I'd say he COULD still twin-link, but only his unit's weaponry.

I could take down He'Stan's cost. I did at one point, but I put him back to normal for some reason.

Serch for the 9 all infantery can take an objective

wargey wrote:
Serch for the 9 all infantery can take an objective

So to put that in "rule lingo" we could say

Search For The Nine:
All units with the Infantry unit type become scoring

wargey wrote:
Serch for the 9 all infantery can take an objective

Actually, Wargey has a really good point here. He'Stan is searching for the lost relics of his chapter. It would take a rather hefty points cost, but the idea of making all infantry with Vulcan scoring does make sense. I would add that if they are in a vehicle, they cannot score, no matter what, because they don't have the object completely secure. (Otherwise scoring Terminators are inside land raiders, and that is bad.)

wargey wrote:
Serch for the 9 all infantery can take an objective

Hmm, I love the idea. You need to make more ideas like this wargey, and your sallies will be decent.

Maybe cost this ability between 30-45pts and remove the chapter tactics that is stated in C:SM?
He'd be worth about 225-ish and a decent unique

Actually, its a good idea. Could do something like GK Grand Strategy where D3 units of your choice become scoring.

Could be a little abused by taking an all foot list with Devs holding your backfield, tacs in the mid range, and termies pushing ahead, every one of them scoring.

 Blacksails wrote:
Actually, its a good idea. Could do something like GK Grand Strategy where D3 units of your choice become scoring.

Could be a little abused by taking an all foot list with Devs holding your backfield, tacs in the mid range, and termies pushing ahead, every one of them scoring.

Right. The D3 would be more effective at keeping overall and internal balance.

Also make Vulcan scoring like that newcron character that also finds stuff under a rock... Let's look for treasure Terrence!!

 LlamaAgility wrote:

wargey wrote:
Serch for the 9 all infantery can take an objective

Hmm, I love the idea. You need to make more ideas like this wargey, and your sallies will be decent.

Maybe cost this ability between 30-45pts and remove the chapter tactics that is stated in C:SM?
He'd be worth about 225-ish and a decent unique

But you have to take out the points for chapter tactics so i would say just keep him at 190 and just replace Chapter tactics with Search for the 9.

Did it. Character updated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blacksails: About the Siege Mantlets, I'm not sure those would fit well into the army. I think we need to find something between Hardened Armor and Siege mantlets, or I could simply drop the upgrade altogether. Is there anything Salamanders use in the books that is similar to either, or just a better armor or something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering if I should add in a Salamander's Psychic powers chart. Formosa had some ideas on page 2, perhaps we could go off of those or the Pyromancy table.

There was some on the first page of my codex that I stole from anougher sallie codex (my old fan dex.)

Hey, I think some unique wargear might be in order. I'm not really familiar with Salamanders' fluff, but I'll go about and search around a bit.

I'll be sure to get some suggestion(s) then.

 McNinja wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blacksails: About the Siege Mantlets, I'm not sure those would fit well into the army. I think we need to find something between Hardened Armor and Siege mantlets, or I could simply drop the upgrade altogether. Is there anything Salamanders use in the books that is similar to either, or just a better armor or something?

Well, they use the same power armour/artificer/terminator armour that every other chapter uses. They have a higher number of finely crafted suits of armour, but the difference between one set of normal armour and a set of Sallies armour wouldn't make any kind of difference on the tabletop. Their suits are more ornate and have fine details crafted into them, but it'd be a purely modelling/aesthetic difference. While an interesting idea, my vote would be to drop it, but then again I'm a bit of a minimalist when it comes to 40k rules.

They have a higher percentege of atificer amour and termie armour. They also have more pre heresy amour than any other chapters.

 Blacksails wrote:

Well, they use the same power armour/artificer/terminator armour that every other chapter uses. They have a higher number of finely crafted suits of armour, but the difference between one set of normal armour and a set of Sallies armour wouldn't make any kind of difference on the tabletop. Their suits are more ornate and have fine details crafted into them, but it'd be a purely modelling/aesthetic difference. While an interesting idea, my vote would be to drop it, but then again I'm a bit of a minimalist when it comes to 40k rules.

Less is more, when it comes to codex chapters. Of course, this depends on the codex chapter too. I'd understand a few unique armor sets available for ONE MODEL in the army. But unless clearly fitting to the fluff (like SW runic armor), there's no much use designing new sets. (I'm sorry, but I did break the rule in my codex. Of course, there is not much fluff altogether and the suit fits the chapter's theme just fine)

wargey wrote:They have a higher percentage of artificer amour and termie armour. They also have more pre heresy amour than any other chapters.

This is because the common Salamanders space marine tends to, and maintains his own gear. Including armor. This leaves more time for their manufactoria to produce more better quality - and artificer armor.
Thus, their AA could be a cheaper upgrade for the characters that may get it.

What I have also found out is, that in the old (2nd or 3rd ed, unsure) Codex: Armageddon, (which introduced the Black Templar, Salamanders, Ork Kult of Speed as their own separate armies and gave them specialized rules) the Salamanders were able to purchase AA for their tactical sergeants.

Maybe if this was possible, but maybe just for the more elite squads, like sternguard and vanguard veterans, their excess in armoring may be justified?

Ye just think about it deverstators with mm spam and a sarge with AA at the front. All armour saves on the sq took at 2+ and los


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the search for 9 D3 +2 units scoring would be better you could have 5 scoring units or 3 or 4 suits the fluff better imo and all HQ become scoring

wargey wrote:
Ye just think about it deverstators with mm spam and a sarge with AA at the front. All armour saves on the sq took at 2+ and los


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the search for 9 D3 +2 units scoring would be better you could have 5 scoring units or 3 or 4 suits the fluff better imo and all HQ become scoring

Exactly the reason they aren't given AA sergeants yet...

wargey wrote:

On the search for 9 D3 +2 units scoring would be better you could have 5 scoring units or 3 or 4 suits the fluff better imo and all HQ become scoring

This is what we like to call 'overpowered'.

D3 units +Vulkan himself is fine and balanced.

^Agreed

"All HQ become scoring"
wargeyMakingRules.jpg once again.

 LlamaAgility wrote:
"All HQ become scoring"
wargeyMakingRules.jpg once again.

herewegoagain.wmv

Na just a segestion. I think D3 and valkun and his SQ are scoring.

wargey wrote:
Na just a segestion. I think D3 and valkun and his SQ are scoring.

Vulkan and D3 units is more than enough. Making his squad scoring too opens up too many issues for balance. Roll a 5 or 6 in a 1500pts army, make your two devs squads scoring in the backfield, make your sternguard drop pod unit scoring, then put Vulkan with termies in a Land Raider to make them scoring too.

Frankly, I think it should just be a flat D3 without Vulkan also being scoring the more I think about it. Vulkan is no slouch in combat and particularly resilient. A flat D3 would force you to pick more selectively which squads get scoring, while also making you focus on the list building aspect. For example, a Vulkan list in this codex would be more focused on being able to hold a backfield objective with devs as you're guaranteed at least 1 extra scoring unit, allowing your Tac squads with flamer/heavy flamer to move up and occupy the middle of the board.

At 190pts, he brings effectively 85pts of wargear above a standard Captain, plus his chapter tactics. He's clearly severely undercosted in C:SM for what he can do, especially at 2000+pts. But we can't go solely on what GW has decided is balanced if we plan on altering what Vulkan does. Assuming he brings 85pts of wargear, his base cost is 185pts. What would be an appropriate cost for D3 scoring units? I honestly don't know and can only make an educated guess, as there's no upgrade in the game I can isolate to determine an approximate cost. However, I know that scoring units are important, and making certain units scoring makes them a lot more effective, like Devs for example, sitting behind an ADL on an objective.

D3 units will average 2 extra scoring units at the beginning of every game. I'm inclined to say it would be worth about 25pts (give or take 5pts), as its expensive enough to make Vulkan a 210pts character without making him undesirable.

Food for thought.