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Well it depends on the meta. I am comparing the BA to tournament-level lists fielded by other codices. *However*, the BA have quite a few units that can get you into model count trouble really quickly. Jump pack DC, Sanguinary guard, Vanguards, etc. Plus, all our tanks cost extra. See how this snowballs? The kicker is that none of the stuff that costs extra is really getting any kind of defensive bump that is meaningful. A fast rhino dies just as easily as a regular Rhino. A DC guy with jump pack dies just as easily as a schmuck ASM guy next to a SP. SG arguably have better defenses, but every time I've seen them against a good list, they die a horrible plasma death.

The whole thing is very annoying, because the BA have awesome fluff, and nowhere in the fluff does it mention them getting own as easily as it is happening in 6th edition.

I hear you. Thanks man.

I'd also like to add something rather obvious but I feel important to clarify. The players where I play that play the most are the guys with the nastiest lists. So I'm seeing these Vendetta and Helldrake lists over and over because those are the guys that play the most.

Even though I think that most people agree that the SW are far superior to the BA, I have absolutely run over some SW lists because they didn't understand what they were looking at or how exactly to build their own lists. My favorite was when my LRC w/DC build just piled out and slaughtered Njal and his squad outright. Long Fangs w/MLs really can't stop a LR in a reasonable about of time and I made them pay. (I hate the ML with a purple passion, different thread) Now, if he had understood that getting assaulted by 10 DC w/ 2 power fists in the squad would do that, he probably would have moved differently or done *something* different.

On the other hand, the guy with IG main and Space wolf allies running 4X Vendetta full of plasma/melta vets, nasty IG artillery and SW bodyguards, doesn't care about that list because he's going to pop the LR with melta or ordnance and then gun down the footslogging DC like slime. Any kind of pressure my fast movers try to put on him get blockaded by counterattacking grey hunters.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, meqs are taking a beating in 6th edition. Taken from that standpoint, BA aren't truly significantly worse than vanilla marines. However, in head to head matchups against meqs, the 6th edition nerfs to the BA come into play.

The DC are unwieldy because all of their transport options have flaws. Serious flaws.

Also, I maintain the Vendetta can not be ignored as an aberration As long as it is legal for play, it is the standard by which fliers need to be judged, so you might have to compete against them directly.

Attitude is not much involved when I play a double or triple helldrake list filled with plague marine with a BA TAC list. I'd say my win rate is pretty good considering. I'm negative because no matter how well I play, or even roll, its a huge uphill battle against many lists. Now most lists. I'm dreading the new Eldar in some ways


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Fast vehicles are great. Until they get shot and there are fewer of them to take the hits.

While I don't disagree on the points where Blood Angels have serious disadvantages to overcome this edition, I do think that they have to play at their strengths, i.e. fast deployment and flexible mobility damage units like vindicators/predators as well alongside a judicious use of properly spacing as well as placing assault marine troops with jump packs behind cover or at least out of LoS (presuming you play with enough diverse terrain which you normally should.

In terms of attitude I think the negative perspective seems to miss the point of playing Warhammer as well as being mentally unhealthy in itself; while the objective of the game may be to win the goal/purpose of playing the game is (or should be) to have fun. Never mix the two together or otherwise you end up stressing over something that is simply a game about toy soldiers, which in the greater context of life is relatively low priority regardless of how passionate you are about the game itself. Though I understand with your most recent comment given on your environment with WAAC-type lists that it indeed must be frustrating to deal with "cheese" like Heldrake spam, etc.

It's hard to sit here and point WAAC fingers when I would never knowingly execute, say, a Starcraft build that was known to be bad. In other words, why *wouldn't* you bring triple helldrake as CSM every match?

Terrain sounds great, but its actually a hindrance if setting up behind terrain costs you a turn of movement. Because turn 2 you'll just be in a position where you would have set up at and get shot approximately the same. Sometimes it works well, though.

This is all assuming the list you are fighting even cares about your ASM. Because half the lists out there don't. How ASM does it take to threaten plague marines? More than is generally going to make it to CC with them, that's how many. How about Tyranids? They don't care about ASM.

You don't bring 3 helldrakes Martel because: you bring 1 or 2 drakes and then ally in guard to bring a squadron of vendettas.

Who says you can't have your cake and eat it to?

To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever heard a report where the CSM guy did that. I've heard several triple helldrake battlereps in contrast.


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In my philosophy, I really can't blame anyone for using what GW has printed and made legal. I blame GW for not understanding basic math or meta considerations. Or not caring, which is more likely.