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Hi Guys.

Wouldn't multiple assualts work with SW. A couple of squads of GH with a couple of leaders like Ragnar should do fairly well against this, particularly if a you could get a dred to soak up the overwatch ?
I am fairly new to thist but I'm thinking the blob would suffer too many wounds each round to stay dangerous for long?

Imperious wrote:
Hi Guys.

Wouldn't multiple assualts work with SW. A couple of squads of GH with a couple of leaders like Ragnar should do fairly well against this, particularly if a you could get a dred to soak up the overwatch ?
I am fairly new to thist but I'm thinking the blob would suffer too many wounds each round to stay dangerous for long?

If you are forced to tie up a couple of squads of GH with SC's..Well, the blob accomplished it's purpose.

Actually, the furioso dread runs out of steam very quickly against anything that gets save against S6 AP 3. Even FNP marines nerf them badly.

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Furioso dreads with Blood Talons, job done

This. This would be awesome to see.

roxor08 wrote:

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Furioso dreads with Blood Talons, job done

This. This would be awesome to see.

Except you know... Every model in the blob has a 4++ to shut down the extra attacks. And all the sarges have melta bombs so the furioso loses in 1 round.

 Illumini wrote:
You wont get forboding/prescience and azrael at them same time. You also dont get both the invul and the flak save. However, the wolf guard star is still a terrible unit overall, so no real point in going too far down this path.

Oh yeah, stupid me, I hallucinated that the save granted to the guard blob was the FNP save, or that the invuln was a FNP, or something very weird like that. But yes, regardless of that, I don't know why you'd ever want or get to have 10 1W T4 3+ models charging into the guard blob.

As for Psychic powers and Azrael, I'm generally assuming DA with allied Guard blob, not the other way around. You can fit a lot of guard into that allied detachment (blob + Manticore + Primaris Psyker) and get both a DA Libby and Azrael into the blob. Unfortunately, the rest of DA isn't that amazing, but that was the build I was thinking about. That's mostly because the Guard blob player I played against was SW/IG, and had Rune Priests in the blob, so I like the idea of Divination buffing the blob.

How well could a Azrael blob hold up a screamer star? Just trying to think of tourney applications.

As well as they would against anything else. That's the joy of an invulnerable save! You need to put the same amount of wounds on it no matter how high quality your attacks are. With a 2++ re-rollable its unreasonable to even consider the guard blob winning combat, but if you hold up his screamer star the entire game then that's a win isn't it?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


If you are forced to tie up a couple of squads of GH with SC's..Well, the blob accomplished it's purpose.

Only if it ties them up for more then one turn. If you have 1k worth of points tied up in a unit, and I can break it with 1k points in 1-2 turns, it really doesn't help. The blob needs to chew on things piecemeal to be effective. By loading up all at once it can't handle the load and comes apart without the ability to slowly grind you down.

For 1k points I can have 6 GH squads. At 22% chance to kill per attack, they will kill All 40 guys if they charge at the same time. Azrael will kill 2.
Just for laughs, take Canis WolfBorn. Get 4 packs of 15 wolves as troops for 480 pts. Charge them in for 40 kills and then leave Azrael bogged down for four turns while the rest of your army moves on.

I just picked Ragnar with some WG because the image of him charging out of a Land Raider with his drinking buddies is cool.

At least 20 with a 3in move during initiative than another 3in move after the combat phase ends. Dont forget the melta bombs from 5 sgts.

 Lobukia wrote:
How well could a Azrael blob hold up a screamer star? Just trying to think of tourney applications.

Indefinitely.

It is unlikely that the Screamerstar would ever see the light of day, and if the Grimoire fails...

The blob is only about 600 pts by the way. With Azrael.

Against the Screamerstar, you challenge every turn and keep waiting until the Grimoire is failed to kill the unit.

If a Daemon Prince also charges in, just challenge it with a sgt.

For the cost of Azrael IG can just add 43 more wounds to their ranks. Fearless means they can not be run down in cc so just deal with the Azreal blob with volume offire..

So there are a few hard counters to this list.

First is the Vindicare assassin if you have access to him. He simply makes Azrael run scared with his shield breaker rounds and Turbo Penetrator.

Secondly, if your opponent got lazy or cheap; Azreal does not have ATSKNF. If he did not take a commissar you can Terrify the unit then assault a vulnerable end of his blob, Cause some casualties then sweep the whole damn thing.

Simple volume of fire will grind it down. Tau and Eldar do this easily. If you can cast enfeeble or use tremor rounds from the TFC you can really limit its mobility and allow you to outrange it. Misfortune is also another nice trick. Their 4++ will turn into being slightly worse than their flak armor.

It's a good unit, very durable but not nearly the beast a screamerstar or Jetseet council is.

Those are solid points.

Except I don't think a vindicare is a very good unit. Every game I've faced one he's died right away. 140pts to take 1-2 shots just isn't worth it IMO.

But Azreal has fearless which makes him immune to fear and sweeping advance.

 Billagio wrote:
But Azreal has fearless which makes him immune to fear and sweeping advance.

If you're responding to glocknall's comment, he mentions terrify which removes fearless.

Well, now that Codex Inquisition is out, now the blob has Scout, Rad grenades, Psychotroke grenades, Stubborn (just in case you Terrify) and appropriate Divination Powers, in addition to Azrael's 4++ if he's in there. Also potentially just immune to psychic powers period.

Still falls to weight of Wave Serpent fire, but any CC solution to the blob just got a lot more difficult.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
But Azreal has fearless which makes him immune to fear and sweeping advance.

If you're responding to glocknall's comment, he mentions terrify which removes fearless.

However, Azrael is also a Space Marine, and has ATSKNF. Which Terrify does not remove.

You will find that Azrael only has the Inner Circle Rule, which grants Fearless. He does not actually have ATSKNF.

Oh! Huh. Unusual, but I see you're right. Thanks for correcting me.

 Thariinye wrote:
Well, now that Codex Inquisition is out, now the blob has Scout, Rad grenades, Psychotroke grenades, Stubborn (just in case you Terrify) and appropriate Divination Powers, in addition to Azrael's 4++ if he's in there. Also potentially just immune to psychic powers period.

Still falls to weight of Wave Serpent fire, but any CC solution to the blob just got a lot more difficult.

Yep this thing just got unleashed. Coteaz plus a inquistor with the books could make this thing pretty nasty with the ability to prescience the units nearby, intercept anything within 12" of coteaz, and scout, grenades, etc. With proper support elements this would be great.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
How I would deal with it:

Send a Swarmlord, Tyranid Prime Regen, TS, LW/BS), and Tyrant guard (BS) to play with them. Iron arm and Endurance (either from Swarmlord or another source, and possibly Warp speed) you're talking lots of dead guardsmen. Additionally, you can issue 2 challenges a turn. Each player turn that's 2 dead sergants.

Eventually you'll get to Azreal and then he'll lose the either the SL or Prime and you'll break the squad.

Remember,

Deathstar vs deathstar is almost never a good plan.

And please people, read the thread and stop recommending challenges. You're really not understanding this build.

50 guardsmen with krak grenades. 5 sarge's with power axes and melta bombs. Azrael gives them all fearless and 4++. If you challenge, he can sacrifice a guard sarge. Or just refuse the challenge. Power axes and weight of numbers will beat out most dedicated combat units. Deathstar vs deathstar ties up valuable resources from both sides.

Ignoring the unit or mitigating it are your best options. The reason he put 50 guys in a unit with a 4++ is because he WANTS you to waste time on it. Throwing units at it is playing his game.

If you're nids, spawn a unit of gaunts and line them up 1" away from the blob and make him waste his time clearing away an expendable unit at a time. Flyrants can precision strike the special/heavy weapons out with t/l devourers. Terrify and/or hallucinate can work wonders.

If you must kill them, you need quantity not quality. Whatever in your army will force the most saves be it bolters, devourers, sonic blasters, etc. Whatever allows you to roll the most dice.

While alot here is true, this particular matchup would come down to the SL's choice of powers. And honestly Deathstar vs deathstar is the way to go. because you have tied up the nasty unit with your nasty unit and the rest of your armies can fight it out while they whittle away at each other. A 400pt deathstar tying up at 1000 point one is well worth it.

True.

This unit is one that has to be outplayed on the table. It's not crazy fast or as resilient as a seer council or screamer star, or as killy as o'vesa star. It does score though, has a huge footprint, and asserts strong area control wherever it's moving to.

Be mindful of the mission and don't let the unit psych you out. Knowing its full capabilities is the important part that's why it's important to identify which advice is good and which would be a tactical error.

Hmm, read the first page, don't know what Space Wolves would do but with Daemons...

20 Seekers of Slaanesh with Rapturous Standard with a Herald of Slaanesh with Exalted Locus and Greater Aetherblade/Aetherblade, try for Acquiesence. Maybe a unit champ with Aetherblade.

On the off chance they make it into combat (move 12" assault with fleet) Acquissence makes the blob unable to fire overwatch. Rapturous Standard gives it -D3 weapon skill.

Herald could challenge out the Librarian. Librarian can't refuse due to Exalted Locus. Herald has 6 attacks hititng on 3's re-rolling due to Exalted Locus. 5.33 hits, wounding on 3's. 3.556 wounds AP 2, decent chance the Librarian dies. He hits back on 5's. He'll die next round. Not sure on Azrael's loudout or if the Herald could take him.

19 Seekers have 76 attacks. 67.555 hits. 33.777 wounds. 16.8888 dead guardsmen. Unit champion has 4 attacks. 3.55 hits. Wounds on 3's. 2.37 dead guardsmen.

5 sergeants + 25 guardmen (if they can all get in, unlikely if they're spread out) + Azrael hit back. Guardsmen hit on 5's, prescience might help. I think the Seekers end up winning, don't have a guard book to math it out accurately. Someone could do it for me.

The Seeker unit is 285 points. Herald is 145. Lot cheaper than the blob. If the first page is accurate and it's ~900 points you could take 40 seekers and 2 Heralds for the same points.


Edit: Alternatively, get Terrify from telepathy. Beat them in combat by a lot with said unit. Run them all down.

50 guardsmen 5 power axes and Azrael is 515 points.

Or 450 points for an inquisitor with rad grenades, psychotropic grenades, lvl 1 psyker, and 2 AS priests one has the book that allows them to auto pass hymms. I'm not positive but it think it's also plasma gun range to give the inquisitor the book that would give the blob counter attack.

The blobs are also realistically going to be 25 to 75 points more expensive once special or heavy weapons are added into the equation.

The AS/Inquisition blob doesn't have the 4++ durability against shooting that the Azrael blob has, but the counter attack, rerollable 5+ in armor cc, hatred, shred, +1s, and -1 enemy toughness means it will wreck pretty much anything in cc

Why not both azrael and dual inquisitor?

Is there anything else in 40k that does pretty much what Azrael does? I don't really like Dark Angels..

There's Zarael. He's another space marine commander who looks like, sounds like and has the same special rules of Azreal, but he's painted differently.

 schadenfreude wrote:
50 guardsmen 5 power axes and Azrael is 515 points.

Or 450 points for an inquisitor with rad grenades, psychotropic grenades, lvl 1 psyker, and 2 AS priests one has the book that allows them to auto pass hymms. I'm not positive but it think it's also plasma gun range to give the inquisitor the book that would give the blob counter attack.

The blobs are also realistically going to be 25 to 75 points more expensive once special or heavy weapons are added into the equation.

The AS/Inquisition blob doesn't have the 4++ durability against shooting that the Azrael blob has, but the counter attack, rerollable 5+ in armor cc, hatred, shred, +1s, and -1 enemy toughness means it will wreck pretty much anything in cc

The 4++ and fearless is what makes this blob so fearsome. Losing either of those greatly hurts it.