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Can't you shoot past the blob and go for what you truly want to target? The worst that can happen is having to deal with the Intervening Models stuff, right?

Also the rate of first rank second rank Lasgun fire will probably kill half the terminator squad before it even gets into combat.

Cheap T5 multi-wound models do a nice job against these blobs. The weight of attacks from generic guardsmen have to wound on 6's, and the power axes wound on 5's with AP2 going to waste on models with poor saves. You can go with lower toughness models like scarabs and razorwings, too, but you'll have to get through some pretty dangerous overwatch on the way in. Consider throwing a second, sacrificial unit at it to eat the overwatch, first.

Challenges are obviously not going to do anything useful, but a couple squads of chaos spawn (or similar) will get the job done. Unfortunately, most armies don't have something like that,

Corollax wrote:
Cheap T5 multi-wound models do a nice job against these blobs. The weight of attacks from generic guardsmen have to wound on 6's, and the power axes wound on 5's with AP2 going to waste on models with poor saves. You can go with lower toughness models like scarabs and razorwings, too, but you'll have to get through some pretty dangerous overwatch on the way in. Consider throwing a second, sacrificial unit at it to eat the overwatch, first.

Challenges are obviously not going to do anything useful, but a couple squads of chaos spawn (or similar) will get the job done. Unfortunately, most armies don't have something like that,

What are some cheap, expendable multiwound T5 models? Only thing I can think of is Beasts of Nurgle but they arnt exactly cheap.

Space wolves have the best counter to the blob, they simply drop pod near it, toss rapid fire, maybe some flamer shots and then if they get charged/shot you have counter attack. Just combat squad on the way down.

Then again, too few people even have a way to deal with hordes currently, which is why I'm running them. 136 guardsmen to victory!

I play against a lot of guard blobs, onces allied with DA or SW, with divination or otherwise granted 4++..

you need volume of fire/attacks, or you need somthing that can run in, challenge the leader of the blob, and win.

then you either sweep the whole damn unit (hilarious, i do this all the time with my dreadknights and CC oriented IC's)

or you keep challenging one of the srgts each round and tarpit them...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit to add.


or my orks just LAUGH AT DA SILLY OOMIES WHO IS TRYING TO GET INTO CC

and then choppa them all into oblivion with their unending attacks,


side note... I agree with the above, not many peopel plan to deal with hordes, as not many people take hordes.

I "horde" all my armies right now, even my GK list at 1500 pts has over 50 models...

my guard is usually around 80-100 guardsmen + command swaudsn and whatever else I bring to fill up the roster,

my orks... well... lets just say my strat is LITERALLY to just throw boyz at them until they curl up in a fetal position whimpering as their uber death army is washed over with a choppy green tide... my smallest model count for boyz is still well over 100,

 juraigamer wrote:
Space wolves have the best counter to the blob, they simply drop pod near it, toss rapid fire, maybe some flamer shots and then if they get charged/shot you have counter attack. Just combat squad on the way down.

Then again, too few people even have a way to deal with hordes currently, which is why I'm running them. 136 guardsmen to victory!

Space Wolves drop pod, give 16 nolter shoots and 2 flamers, and they are dead next turn due to volume of fire from the blob.

gausus wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Space wolves have the best counter to the blob, they simply drop pod near it, toss rapid fire, maybe some flamer shots and then if they get charged/shot you have counter attack. Just combat squad on the way down.

Then again, too few people even have a way to deal with hordes currently, which is why I'm running them. 136 guardsmen to victory!

Space Wolves drop pod, give 16 nolter shoots and 2 flamers, and they are dead next turn due to volume of fire from the blob.

For this to work, you will need at least 2 dual-flamer pods, if not three, but it is certainly a valid tactic. The blob can only target one unit, so bringing 2 will ensure at least one survives for the next turn (when you ideally bring in another pod).

 Paradigm wrote:

gausus wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Space wolves have the best counter to the blob, they simply drop pod near it, toss rapid fire, maybe some flamer shots and then if they get charged/shot you have counter attack. Just combat squad on the way down.

Then again, too few people even have a way to deal with hordes currently, which is why I'm running them. 136 guardsmen to victory!

Space Wolves drop pod, give 16 nolter shoots and 2 flamers, and they are dead next turn due to volume of fire from the blob.

For this to work, you will need at least 2 dual-flamer pods, if not three, but it is certainly a valid tactic. The blob can only target one unit, so bringing 2 will ensure at least one survives for the next turn (when you ideally bring in another pod).

you could combat squad them, but you'll still die to the vast volume of shooting that thing puts out.

Space Wolves don't have the ability to combat squad, hence why 2 pods are needed. But as SM it's certainly a good idea.

 Billagio wrote:
What are some cheap, expendable multiwound T5 models? Only thing I can think of is Beasts of Nurgle but they arnt exactly cheap.

Chaos Beasts of Nurgle are actually T6. No reason to buy the Nurgle mark for them in this case. Anyway, they're probably the best choice, but DE grotesques are an option if you can get them into CC. Ogryn technically count, but I wouldn't touch them even for this. Even Beasts of Nurgle can work -- they look expensive at first glance, but get 4 wounds at 5++. That's 6 unsaved wounds the blob has to inflict for only 52 points. Normally, Daemonic Instability would prohibit such use, but blob squads are terrible at combat resolution.

If you're willing to look beyond T5 models, both Necron scarabs and DE razorwings offer an impressive number of wounds and attacks per point.

 easysauce wrote:
you need volume of fire/attacks, or you need somthing that can run in, challenge the leader of the blob, and win.

You'll spend the first 5 rounds of combat killing sergeants before the leader even needs to decline the challenge. And when he does, they still get both 4++ and fearless. They just don't get to use his leadership. This is obviously not effective.

You're better off not trying to kill and just tarpitting it. You're hurting them bad by doing this, as they lose all their shots. In 5th I used berzerkers and a khorne lord with daemon weapons to stop this when my friend was running his blobs. In 6th, I'd not try to kill it, and just push some nurgle marked marines their way to tarpit them forever. 10 power armoured T5 wounds should last a while.

Since the blob can have such a large number of power axes, I'd advise against relying on armor saves. You'll really get better results out of something with multiple wounds. T5 or higher will adequately protect you from the volume of S3 attacks.

 Paradigm wrote:
Space Wolves don't have the ability to combat squad, hence why 2 pods are needed. But as SM it's certainly a good idea.

Wolves don't have thunderfire cannons either, though I suppose those can be allied in.

If you've got enough models, try hording him back?
Wolf Priest with saga of the "I and my squad get Outflank" plus 15 blood claws and an attached wolf guard in termie armour to take out the backfield targets the blob is trying to keep you from. Or to just run headlong into the blob itself.
Then fill up the rest of your points with more 15-strong blood claw packs. Let's see his 40 guardsmen take down 75 screaming Blood Claws barrelling down on them.

I don't know how effective this would actually be, but 90 bloodclaws plus a bare wolfpriest adds up to 1450 points or so. Add the Saga, and you're at, what? 1470? You could add a few flamers and powerfists to make that 1500 points. No Wolf Guard at 1500 points however, though I would recommend them to babysit the Claws.
That sounds like a hilarious idea to try out on the field, TBH. I may have to try this next time I play. Some proxying may be necessary.

If you prefer your tactics a little saner, two of these squads should be enough. Then take y'know normal units and support from the rest of the Codex.
Or, if the horde is spread out to provide cover to the tanks behind them, assault them with a suicide unit of wolves or BC bikers. Actually, BC bikers might be a decent counter (to tie them up, at least) to this blob as well - they've got high toughness, are fast and put out a decent number of attacks. Throw in a Wolf Guard pack leader to take on the sergeants if he challenges, and that should be a decent tarpit to the blob, methinks. Charge them ASAP with the bikers while the normal BCs move into position and clean up with the infantry, preferably charging in just before the blob kills that bikers.
They have to move towards the unit assaulting them from all across the battlefield giving you room to go around or through and target the objectives behind them.

Finally, if he spreads them out enough to cover most his backfield, a drop podding unit of grey hunters or wolf guard should be able to kill enough guardsmen to force them out of coherency, meaning they HAVE to spend next movement phase getting back in coherency, meaning they'll only be able to use effectively whatever weapons can be fired on the move.

10 T5 marines dont last a long time to Azrael's Str 6 AP3 attacks.

You could always just leave it alone since the rangoe of their weapons are a measly 12 whole inches...

.. Blast/large blast etc will tear them a new one. flamer/heavy flamer will as well. Hell you could also just tank shock them off the table.

Why not use whirlwinds or something of that nature?

Corollax wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
you need volume of fire/attacks, or you need somthing that can run in, challenge the leader of the blob, and win.

You'll spend the first 5 rounds of combat killing sergeants before the leader even needs to decline the challenge. And when he does, they still get both 4++ and fearless. They just don't get to use his leadership. This is obviously not effective.

spend the first 5 rounds of combat killing sergeants

you do realise that if you spent 5 rounds tying up that blob+az you have won right? that that is the whole point of the strategy i just gave you that "doesnt work"?

thats the whole point, run in, challenge the "mooks" and tarpit it... or if you are wize with what you send in, kill az when he finally acepts a challenge...3-4 turns later, and that blob is now effectively doing nothing the whole game....

 g0atsticks wrote:
You could always just leave it alone since the rangoe of their weapons are a measly 12 whole inches...

Its 24inches. Plus whatever heavy weapons it has.

Corollax wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
What are some cheap, expendable multiwound T5 models? Only thing I can think of is Beasts of Nurgle but they arnt exactly cheap.

Chaos Beasts of Nurgle are actually T6. No reason to buy the Nurgle mark for them in this case. Anyway, they're probably the best choice, but DE grotesques are an option if you can get them into CC. Ogryn technically count, but I wouldn't touch them even for this. Even Beasts of Nurgle can work -- they look expensive at first glance, but get 4 wounds at 5++. That's 6 unsaved wounds the blob has to inflict for only 52 points. Normally, Daemonic Instability would prohibit such use, but blob squads are terrible at combat resolution.

If you're willing to look beyond T5 models, both Necron scarabs and DE razorwings offer an impressive number of wounds and attacks per point.

My codex says they are T5. Is there a special rule that makes them 6?

 Billagio wrote:

Corollax wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
What are some cheap, expendable multiwound T5 models? Only thing I can think of is Beasts of Nurgle but they arnt exactly cheap.

Chaos Beasts of Nurgle are actually T6. No reason to buy the Nurgle mark for them in this case. Anyway, they're probably the best choice, but DE grotesques are an option if you can get them into CC. Ogryn technically count, but I wouldn't touch them even for this. Even Beasts of Nurgle can work -- they look expensive at first glance, but get 4 wounds at 5++. That's 6 unsaved wounds the blob has to inflict for only 52 points. Normally, Daemonic Instability would prohibit such use, but blob squads are terrible at combat resolution.

If you're willing to look beyond T5 models, both Necron scarabs and DE razorwings offer an impressive number of wounds and attacks per point.

My codex says they are T5. Is there a special rule that makes them 6?

He probably means nurgle spawn. They are t6.

Answers to an Azrael Guard blob by Army (not very in depth):

Space Marines -- Thunderfire Cannons, lots of bolter shots. Librarian with Terrify, then assault and sweep. (Azrael has Fearless, not ATSKNF)
Space Wolves -- Assault, Jaws sergeants, Libby, or Azrael, keep DA Librarian from casting by Rune Priest blockage. Use your own allied guard blob with Rune Priests.
Blood Angels -- Tie up with Mephiston.
Grey Knights -- Shoot with S5 Knights, assault with Dreadknight after flaming.
Chaos Space Marines -- Assault with Spawn, use Heldrakes to force spread, kill Marine contingent.
Chaos Daemons -- Assault with Screamer-star or Flesh Hounds or Daemonettes.
Eldar -- Shoot with Wave Serpents. Terrify + Horrify with Seer Council, then assault and sweep. Shoot with Guardians/Dire Avengers. Assault with a Wraithknight.
Dark Eldar -- Even with poison being crappy against T3, you have volume of poison shots to kill the blob with Venoms and Eldar Allies.
Tyranids -- Swarm with Poisoned Gants and Tervigons. Force the blob to spread out with Biovores.
Necrons -- Annihilation Barges, Nightscythes, and Doomscythe Death Rays.
Tau -- Shoot with anything except Railguns. Use Fire Warriors, Missile-sides, and Riptide blasts. Stall with Stubborn Fire Warriors in Assault if you need to.
IG -- Shoot with own guard blob, Manticores.
Adepta Sororitas -- Use Jacobus blob or avoid combat via vehicle spam.
Orks -- Hell if I know.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
You can always counter with your own tar pit. Throw a squad of TH/SS terminators at it and just let them wade through the bodies for a few turns, after all they are only guardsmen.

How many points do you really want to use to tie them up though? He can put a lot more hits on you a lot faster than you can. I can allmost guarantee you will lose that fight. With a 2+/3++ you will likewise fail rolls eventually.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Chaplain and 15 dc charging in is 400pts. That's 75 st 5 reroll to hit (3+) and reroll to wound (2+) plus 5 st 7 attacks from the chappy. That is ~ 66 hits and ~ 64 wounds which means ~ 32 dead guardsmen. Of course you have to get them into combat first, but a LRC will do that job quite fine usually. Saves spending 2 or 3 turns shooting it up!

I think IG brings enough big guns to take that land raider out fast. Not to mention the blob will probably get a good turn of shooting in on the marines.

Spreading out the army negates their close combat efficency too.

The best way to negate the blob is to bring large blasts. If they dont spread out they will suffer large amounts of wounds and if they spread out it significantly cuts down their shooting and close combat attacks.

 tankboy145 wrote:
The best way to negate the blob is to bring large blasts. If they dont spread out they will suffer large amounts of wounds and if they spread out it significantly cuts down their shooting and close combat attacks.

Plus if they get spread out enoug and you wound enough dudes you can force them to get their units too far apart and force a fall back.

Majsharan wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
The best way to negate the blob is to bring large blasts. If they dont spread out they will suffer large amounts of wounds and if they spread out it significantly cuts down their shooting and close combat attacks.

Plus if they get spread out enoug and you wound enough dudes you can force them to get their units too far apart and force a fall back.

If you loose formation you just have to move back into formation. Morale test for loosing formation are a thing of past editions.

People keep saying "Challenge out Azrael" this simply wont work as he will decline then kill you with power axes + weight of attacks.

Seriously, the only model I know that could 'challenge out Azrael' is a slaanesh herald.