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 ashikenshin wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

You are right. I stand corrected. My 2nd game of 7th featured a violation of this rule, because somehow my opponent and I both missed it. To be fair, I denied both attempted powers, so it had no effect on gameplay.

ETA: that is something of a bonus we have over fluffier armies with only a few psychers. We can generate a bunch of denial dice. But not as many as Grey Knights, Demons, or even Eldar.

KillerWabbit wrote:
We are going to have to be flexible, folks.

I agree that we have to be flexible to win the Maelstrom of war missions. What I object to is that our codex has been made much, much less flexible. We are slow. We need Synapse. We depend on cover for survivability. We can't deal with AV 13 and 14, or really any AV in assault.

We are going to keep winning some games, but we now have 3 times as many auto-lose matchups as we did in 6th. No amount of optimistic thinking is going to help you kill 9 super-scoring drop pods, and the troops in them.

Played a game tonight with my modified list to deal with Land Raider Spam.

I was allied with Orks, and we ran 1500 points. The space marine player ran 3000 points.

True to form, my opponent brought 2 Land Raider and a Caestus Assault Ram. Plus 4-5 Rhinos. It was a fairly big game.

I brought:


It wasn't an effective test of my ability to deal with heavy armor, because my Ork friend popped both Land Raiders, and our opponent conceded on turn 3. I did manage to make good use of flyrants with E.Grubs. Thanks to the greater survivability of the flyrants, I played them very aggressively, and was able to catch 2 Rhinos with 1 Template, and 6 Snipers + a Land Raider with the second. I also fired off Warp blast from a flyrant in both turns, and immobilized a Rhino once, and Killed 7 Devastators with an assist from some Lootas for first blood. The Crone never came in, and the Carnifexes rolled a 2 for their onslaught run, and didn't manage to get into range. If I had been able to shoot on turn 3, I would have killed one Rhino with the Fexes, and the immobilized one + 8 Marines would have got a taste of my Egrubs. My other flyrant was probably going to pop the last rhino.

Overall, I think I might have underestimated the usefulness of E.Grubs on a flyrant It can only take one vehicle hit point, but because of the size of the template, I can often do more damage than that single HP. But mainly, I think that Warp Blast is awesome for a flyrant now that I don't have to shoot it at the same target as my TL-Devourers and it doesn't count as shooting one weapon. I had a few situations where I missed the vector strike as a way to kill marines, and boy would I have liked to get into assault from Flying on Turn 3, but I think the Flyrant is probably net buffed by the edition, and even more critical to tyranids than before.

I killed lots of marines, Devestators, Scouts, and several rhinos, and ended the game having lost a total of 3 HGaunts. My Ally lost 20 Ork boyz, 3 Gretchin, and a Battle wagon, and killed 2 Land Speeders, a bunch of scouts, a bunch of marines, and both Land Raiders.

 RiTides wrote:
So, from YMDC and the rulebook wording, it seems we have to take two Combined Arms Detachments (CADs) to get more slots- we can't actually "ally" with ourselves, despite the battle brothers chart.

The relevant rule:

Allied Detachment

...

All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or no Faction).

I'm not anticipating events wanting two CADs and the silliness it brings, so looks like I'll have to plan to get my extra slots through dataslates for now. Thoughts appreciated here. Would've loved to ally with myself for just one extra slot of everything, it's much more palatable... but also against the rules!

I don't anticipate anyone using that RAW. My gaming group Universally decided that they wanted to allow 1 Primary Detachment, and 1 Allied detachment or Formation which can be from the same Faction. GW has managed to write rules for list composition so bad or at least undesirable, that I forsee almost no one playing them. Demanding to play them RAW will just get you ostracized from play in the same way that trying to play Ovesa star against newbies. Using multiple CAD's isn't an opportunity for Tyranids, it is a trap for TFG.

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

That is why I couldn't find a rule that permitted it, it is an absence of a rule that prohibits it. I assume that doesn't apply to Terror from the Deep, because the codex explicitly specifies that it only hits the lowest level of terrain.

It is a pretty massive buff to Biovores, especially when dealing with Tau gunline, and their double movement. My main Tau opponent liked to divide squads over 3 levels to keep them safe from Biovores and TFexes and the like. It is also a boost to STC + TL Dev Fexes, but that build got a big nerf, because fexes are so needed in anti-mech that we need to move asap to get there.

I would like to know, based on 7th if everyone is planning on changing their Carnifex wargear. When I run Carnifexes I usually go with straight dakka-fexes like this:
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourer) - 150

They are pretty expensive already, and can die fairly easily so I haven't been giving my Dakkafexes Adrenal Glands. I've been playing with the idea of a CC-fex and how to outfit it. It seems like this is a strongly suboptimal build, but maybe that is because I haven't arrived at the correct combination yet.

These are the variants I've tried in order of how much I liked them.
Varient 1: Carnifex(Crushing Claws) - 135 <- Best once it arrives.
Varient 2: Carnifex(Adrenal glands) - 135 <- Arrives slightly faster.
Varient 3: Carnifex (no upgrades) <-Cheapest
Varient 4: Carnifex(Bio Plasma) -140 <- aka the "I want to be an Exocrine"

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

I thought this, but someone at my club mentioned that the book tells you to refer to stronghold assault? I've yet to find the reference myself though?

IIRC it says to look down through the template from above, and all models visible underneath take a hit. So taking that literally, then, wouldn't models under ruins not be visible and thus not hit?

Nope. It is all models underneath it. They don't have to be visible. Like Vector strike.

If that doesn't make sense for barrage, it is the same rules for Flame templates. You should have no problem flaming lower levels of terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After a few experiments, and a lot of Theory-Hammer, I've arrived at my new 1850 TAC list. It isn't near as good as my 6th edition TAC list, but it has a similar ability to deal with vehicles, and that is going to be needed.


I should be able to take out 1 anti-air tank turn one. (4 Tentaclids = 1.66 HP, Warp Lance or a Dakka Flyrant should be able to finish it). If needed, I can fly 12" forward with the venom for support, and the Gargoyles for Bubblewrap and claim a 3+ cover or a 2+ Jink. I will try to use my flyrants's E.Grubs any time I can get either 2 vehicles or 1 Vehicle and 4+ models. With D6 + 9 Warp charges, I should be able to cast Warp Lance from one of my flyrants once a turn, and either kill some MEQ or take a HP. I'm leaning toward using Fleshborers over spinefists again to give me a chance to take potshots at AV 10 stuff. If facing super scoring Drop Pods, I should be able to kill 3-4 a turn while still giving a good account against whatever they dropped off. I think I can handle Rhino Spam. I will essentially concede any game against Trip-tide, but have a shot against Trip-Wraith Knights. Guard Blob shouldn't be much of a problem, except for the fact that we've lost precision shot, and so can't take out the Flakk missiles. Guard Mech is going to depend on what sort of anti-air they have. Double Land Raider will be a problem to kill, but I can ignore them for a while, and with all of this haywire, I will pop one eventually. I can probably deal with 3 Wave Serpents, but not more than that. I will plan to roll on Strategic Warlord traits hoping that I will get Master of Ambush. If so, I will Infiltrate the Venom, Dakkafexes, and either the Tervigon (I have 1st turn, or good terrain) or the TGaunts (Bad Terrain and 2nd turn). I don't have any answer for Grey Knights, but hope that I can deny their force weapon activations.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
If you get warp Lance on a flyrant. You still have to generate your powers randomly, and a psyker can't cast a power it doesn't know. Relying on warp Lance from your Flyrants is a touch of a gamble.

True, but rolling 4 dice I have a 67% chance of getting Warp Lance. If I don't get it, it is a bummer, but it means I have other powers that might be useful. For Instance: Catalyst, or Onslaught.

Rather than counting on Warp Lance, I could always take Allies:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually it'd be less than 67%, as you can possibly double up with each Hive Tyrant.

Your actual chance would be 55.56% I think.

I might have missed a rule. On my Mastery Level 2 Flyrant, I roll 2 dice for psychic powers. If both dice are the same, I reroll 1 of them. I can't get stuck with 2 copies of the same power on one model, can I?

Regardless, The chance of rolling Warp Blast on 1 dice is 1/6. On 4 dice it is 4 * 1/6 = 4/6 = 66.67%

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can a Zoay cast Warp Lance as well as Dominion in the same turn if you have the dice for it?

Yes, but Zoeys are transformed in 7th. You aren't going to have enough dice to cast all of your spells, and generally Zoeys can't get range and LOS on too many vehicles. Flyrants are a better platform for Warp Lance.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually it'd be less than 67%, as you can possibly double up with each Hive Tyrant.

Your actual chance would be 55.56% I think.

I might have missed a rule. On my Mastery Level 2 Flyrant, I roll 2 dice for psychic powers. If both dice are the same, I reroll 1 of them. I can't get stuck with 2 copies of the same power on one model, can I?

Regardless, The chance of rolling Warp Blast on 1 dice is 1/6. On 4 dice it is 4 * 1/6 = 4/6 = 66.67%

What I'm saying is Tyrant A could possibly have 1 or even both powers the same as Tyrant B, so the actual chance is 2/6+(4/6*2/6) or 55.56% to get at least 1 Warp Blast.

Technically, because there is a chance to roll doubles that are not warp lance, the Tyrant has a slightly higher probability. 1/6 + 1/5 or 36.67% which makes it 73.33% chance that you roll it on one or the other.

I think what is screwing you up, is you are attempting to discount the chance that both flyrants roll Warp Lance which is 13.44%. That is what you are trying to represent in your 4/6. But that is not a failure condition.

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Flyrants are a better platform for Warp Lance.

And they're still bad.
Assuming no attempts to deny:
We'll use 5 dice to try and cast, giving a ~20% chance to perils and a ~80% chance to cast.
.8*.6(to hit)*.6(pen)*.3(desired result - immob is okay)=~8.6% chance for an okay result. Before they bother to deny.

The desired result isn't immobilizing. The desired result is taking 1 HP away. The odds of that are 45.14% on 5 Dice or 38.19% on 4 Dice.

The optimum result is explodes which is 6.00% on 5 Dice, or 5.09% on 4 Dice.

It isn't great. It isn't even really that good. But it is a free shooting attack. All it costs you are warp dice, and you should have 4 to spare.

Also re: Perils (13.19% on 4 Dice, 19.62 on 5 Dice), make sure to cast Catalyst first, because FNP can now be taken against perils. So I'm generally going to cast Catalyst on 3 dice (87.5%), then Warp Lance on 4 Dice(13.19% of perils). The result is 8.79% chance of taking a wound, and 2.20% chance of gaining a 3+ Invul.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I think what is screwing you up is you've included the chance of both Hive Tyrants having Warp Blast twice.

You are correct about that. I was double counting the odds of both Flyrants getting warp blast. With my calculation method that means 59.89%

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Also you're calculation method is incorrect, the actual chance is 1-(5/6*4/5) =33.33% for each Tyrant to get Warp Blast.

This doesn't feel right to me, but I'm not certain that it isn't. I feel like 1/6 is the odds of rolling it on 1 dice, and If you get rerolls on the 2nd in the case of doubles that means the 2nd dice has a 1/5 chance of rolling it, so you should add them together. 1/6 + 1/5 = 36.67%

You could take the reverse odds and subtract from 1. 1 - (5/6 + 4/5) = 36.67%. Why are you multiplying?

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
In their Brotherhood rules it says a Zoan counts as a level 2 Psyker, so is a unit of 1 Zoan +2 dice to my pool?

25 points per mastery level, is how I like to think of them. I'm running 3 units of 1, as back field support, just throwin off dominion and any other buffs I roll.

OR for really good batteries for your flyrant.

Who is also a synapse support creature with Dominion, and another psychic spell. A significant change in the Tyranid meta from 6th to 7th is going to be Zoeys firmly taking over for Warriors as backfield support units. That, coupled with what is sure to be an increase in the number of S8+ weaponry makes warriors far less viable than 6th.

pinecone77 wrote:

barnowl wrote:
How is everyone reading things on the broodlord? It is hard to tell he should be getting the Primaris power or not. So of course it is not covered in the FAQ.

I'm thinking Yes. "cause any non enumerated Psycher is ML 1. So Broodlord gets a Psy-power, so he is a Psycher, and only has one chart...but what good does it do? he can add 6" to zero? I guess that can be useful, to give Fearless to a Brood...? (Maybe to manipulate Go to Ground?

From the Rule book:

If a Psyker generates all of his powers from the same psychic discipline (even if he can only generate one power), that Psyker is said to have Psychic Focus, and gains that discipline’s primaris power in addition to his other powers.

and
in the section: "Generating Psychic Powers"

In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers.

So he still gets "The Horror", but now he also gets Dominion. He can only cast 1 a turn. Dominion gives him a 6" Synapse bubble.

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
He can only cast 1 a turn.

This hasn't been proven. At all.

In the BRB under "Mastery Level" it says:

The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

Is your argument that the Broodlord is not ML:1, or that the ML:1 psychers can use more than one Psychic power a turn?

luke1705 wrote:
On an unrelated note, why do people feel that warriors are less durable than zoanthropes? I know about the strength 8+ weaponry, but they'll usually be getting cover and there are 3 of them vs just 1 zoan. Also, they super-score on their own, which is nice. They also can hold their own in combat for a few turns and can put out more reliable shooting. Sure, they're more expensive, but what else are you filling up your troop slots with if not warriors? Tervigons are too expensive (points-wise) to me.

Warriors are generally more survivable than Zoeys. But Zoeys are such great Warp Charge batteries, and psychic support units, Plus you can have 2 broods of Zoenthropes for the cost of 1 Brood of warriors.

 N.I.B. wrote:
2 detachments is what I suspect most tournaments will run.

You don't think they will do 1 Combine Arms Primary and 1 Allied or Formation? That would be more in keeping with the way many of them handle the broken FOC from 6th, either that or ignore it.

On Friday I got to play a heavy armor blood angles list with 2 super scoring Land Raiders. Here is a little batrep. Most of you probably don't care about the play by play, but you might want to check out the final analysis at the end.

My List


His List:


Mission Specs.


Deployment:


Psychic powers:


Turn 1:

Turn 2:

Turn 3:


Turn 4:


Turn 5:


Final Analysis:
I lost 10 - 13.
The game was a slugfest. At the end the forces looked like this:
My Opponent has: 3 marines in assault with a Tervigon. 1 Land Raider with 1 HP. 1 Land Raider with 2 HP. 1 Storm Raven with 2 HP.
I have. A Tervigon with 5 wounds. 2 Carnifexes each with 1 wound. A full wound flyrant, a crone with 2 wounds and no missiles, 4 Toxic HGaunts, and a venomthrope.

The super scoring Land Raiders allowed him to rack up Tac Card Points in a way that was hard to match. He did savy maneuvering to keep my anti-tank from being able to do anything. I was able to cause damage, but not enough, and not fast enough. It takes 4 turns to get carnifexes into assault, and 2 full assaults with 2 carnifexes didn't kill a single land raider.

Still I made many mistakes, and did some crap rolling when it mattered (7 Rolls, and I didn't get Catalyst or Warp Lance once!, I only made 1 3+ save the entire game!, A dakka flyrant only took 1 HP off a storm raven).

The game is winnable. We aren't going to be killing land Raiders very often, but we can kill everything else. Land Raiders are such a huge points sink that we can use MSU tactics to beat them on the Tac cards. I think Drop pods are much more of a problem. Despite only killing 2 things, I was impressed with my Poison HGaunts.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Still I made many mistakes, and did some crap rolling when it mattered (7 Rolls, and I didn't get Catalyst or Warp Lance once!

With that list you should expect to not have Catalyst every 1 out of 4 games by my calculations.

I figure I get Catalyst 75% of the time, Warp lance on a flyrant 55% of the time, and "Master of Ambush" 30% of the time. So I will get 1 of the 3 about 92% of the time. If I had any one of the 3 in this game, I think I would have won it.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Good battle report, it really shows how you can use a modified version of the Tactical Objectives to lessen the impact of really durable Objective Secured units that aren't quite that mobile.

Thanks, We used the mission Straight from the book. #4 I think. No intentional modifications.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ah, my mistake, I thought you were discarding any non-Secure Objective X cards you drew, rather than 1 per turn.

It seems to me that the Tactical Objectives work well if you only include "Secure Objective X" cards, but as you add more the game becomes increasingly random and is decided more on who drew the easiest to score cards than list building or player skill.

The Cards have been rather devisive in my gaming group. I absolutely love them, because it makes me feel less worried about overwhelming my opponents with flyers or Mawlocs. After playing with them once, I proposed a house rule that you could immediately discard any card that were impossible to achieve. For instance "Manifest a psycic" power if you have no psychers. This helps to deal with your concern of random imbalance. Everyone in my group was quick to agree. But after a few games, some players started to blame the cards for their defeats. Warranted or not. One of the more fluffy players is refusing to play them because they interfere with competitive play. Nobody likes my proposed house rule any more because "You have an army that excels at mobility and scoring (HA!), and thus you don't need any more advantages by house ruling the cards" I find this largely amusing, and hope that everyone gives the cards a serious look. before banning them. Because immobile gunline was the preferred way to play 40k in my meta, I worry that there will be pressure to do away with the cards. Personally I don't find gunline fun to play or fun to play against, so any change that makes everybody participate in the movement phase and not just the shooting phase of the game will make me happy.

The double Landraider list I played against was essentially a meta-busting list built to deal with gunlines.

Recius of Frontline gaming had a great suggestion to improve the case of objective being placed too close to one player or the other. His suggestion is 3 Objects (1-2, 3-4, 5-6) places 1/2 between deployment zones, and then giving each player a chance to "Mulligan" their first draw, in which case they would be stuck with their second.

Some of the randomness is actually "fun" in a way that isn't necessarily competitive. For instance, I had a game that came down to rolling 5+ on a run move for a Biovore. That is a pretty damn fun game right there, even though I lost.

Anways, back on the topic of tyranids. I finished green highlights on 10 Hormagaunts, 28 Devourer Termagaunts, 45 Fleshborer Termagaunts, 40 Spinefist Termagaunts, 8 Magnetized Warriors, and 11 Raveners tonight. Grey, and then Red highlights, and they can be gloss coated, and I will have all of my gants finally painted.

 SHUPPET wrote:
In 7th I've decided taking AG on Mawlocs every time. Not only are Mawlocs the most likely MC in the dex to get a shot at charging a tank in combat, but it helps the chances of getting there and let's them put avg 3 plasma shots into a vehicles rear armour, useful.

I've mostly given up on the Mawloc if I'm facing Marines, Demons, IG Mech or Necron Mech. He went from popping vehicles in 1 go to needing 2-3 and that is 2-3 turns he isn't deep striking. He is the only blast in the game that can't handle multiple level terrain.

Crones and Carnifexes are much more reliable. Even an Exocrine works better than a Mawloc in 7th. By taking away smash, the Mawloc lost much of what it did for me.

 jy2 wrote:
In any case, with the nerf to MC's vs vehicles and with the buff to barrages, I see both biovores and dakkafexes as now playing a more prominent role in the Tyranid offense.

I agree completely, however I think large squads of non-living artillery biovores are still dubious until they FAQ the spore mine placement for multiple blasts. I think it is clear that RAW doesn't match RAI and I hope that now GW is back in the FAQ business they will fix it.

Mad.. wrote:
Bet you are happy to almost be finished with them all. How are you gloss coating them? Have you got a spray can of the gloss, or you brushing it on

Very happy to be almost done. The small bugs are so tedious, and this is just 1/2 of them so I've been working on painting Gaunts for ages. Here is how I gloss coat them:

KillerWabbit wrote:
HCs are still worth running one, especially in meta with lots of armor 4 guys.

Crones work best in pairs.

KillerWabbit wrote:
I am pretty much sold on a Living Artillery formation now.

Me too. It fixes the fundamental problem with Biovores, and Exocrines are decent tank poppers and good against Elite infantry.

KillerWabbit wrote:
I can still do a lot with a Trygon Prime, but the smash hit is a bit harsh. Electroshock grubs are damn near a must-buy on them now. Just a bit too pricey for what you get now, me'thinks.

Can't take a thorax weapon on a Trygon Prime. In many ways he took the hardest hit from a nerf bat, because of his base attacks (5) giving him 3 Smash attacks + 1 for having 2 CC weapons + 1 for charging. I killed more Land Raiders in 5th with a Trygon Prime than all other tyranid units combined. Also Shadows of the Warp got a nerf, and the Trygon Prime was the best delivery system for it. I've been trying to find a way that he isn't a hideously overcosted piece of trash in 7th, and I am struggling. I'm considering running him with Adrenal Glands and Maw Claws to turn him into a unit that is still viable in Close combat against a lot of things. Like Riptides, Defilers, and Land Raiders. But it feels like I'm letting my fondness for the unit overcome my strategic decision making.

 ductvader wrote:
Has anyone else been playing with stock adrenal fexes?

I've been doing a lot of theory hammer in this direction. I basically don't think you gain enough to compensate for what you lose from not having the TL-Devourers.

However, I've got a campaign starting today, and the campaign rules are going to have me trying to field armies with Old-One-Eye and no other HQ in a single FOC with no formation. I've been theory hammering a 'Nidzilla list built around him. Right now I think a hoard army or a fast army (raveners, shrikes) would be better, but my 'Nidzilla list looks like this, and I will give it a first try this weekend.

KillerWabbit wrote:
I like Harpies in the 7th Ed. rules; while people are busy dumping BUCKETS of fire into my other flyers, it will be HVC and spore bombing the crap out of stuff all day long.

With the changes in the vehicle pen table, I'm feeling like STC might be just as good as HVC on crones now. What does everyone else think?

bodazoka wrote:
Question?

With the changes to the way blast markers work now, I am assuming that people can no longer hide from the Mawloc in upper levels of a ruin?

And this would also mean the Mawloc hits everyone in the ruin if they are on multiple levels?

Nope, unfortunately not. The Mawloc is the only blast remaining in the game with a levels restriction because it is written in the Tyranid Codex, and GW has not FAQed it to change it. I do not know if it is going to be FAQed in the future, but my guess is no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played a game tonight. It was somewhat of a cluster-f** because we ended up calling it on the bottom of 2 because the FLGS had to close. I lost by 1 point despite nearly tabling my opponent (1 Rhino, 1 Longfang, 2 Scouts) while only losing 12 gaunts.

But of interest in the game, was the fact that Psychic scream did me some serious good. I invoked it on my Flying Hive Tyrant. It hit Scouts and Long Fangs. The Scouts made their leadership, but the Long Fangs rolled a 10, so they lost 3 models.

It has long been my contention that psychic scream is a terrible power because it counted as shooting a weapon, but with 7th, maybe I can find use for it after all.

Still the worst power to roll on a Zoey.

 jifel wrote:
Ok, now that stronghold assault is basically a requirement, how does everyone feel about Ammunition Dumps and Hive Guard? It makes them a bit more accurate, and we really need the anti tank potential, plus ignores cover is very nice.

Basically, with my normal Bastion+Venomthrope, I would add a defense line, Ammo dump and 3 Hive Guard. Behind a defense line with a Venom they have a 2++, and can shoot any nearby vehicles with rerolling 1s. Thoughts?

Fortifications now have to be placed fully in your deployment zone. Also they aren't as tough as they used to be. Hive Guard are over costed and take up an elite spot that could be better spent on a Venom or Zoey. Consider an Exocrine matched up with an Ammo dump instead. It greatly improves his shooting, and he still has the 24" range, and he can explode vehicles unlike the hive guard. It wouldn't work in my meta where nobody ever moves toward Tyranids, so a Tyranid gunline is unworkable, but if your meta is different, it might work.

Also, the skyshield works very well with Venoms and Exocrines, and has the bonus of giving FMC's a 2+ cover on turn 1.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Something that came up in my game last night, we have to take a grounding check if a Flyrant takes a wound from Perils!

I've been grounded this way twice. Very Annoying.

Also have to take a separate grounding test for psychic shooting, normal shooting, and Vector Strikes, assuming they cause an unsaved wound (FNP doesn't count).

I had a fun campaign game tonight, against the Blood Angels player that favors Land Raiders. Our campaign put several dramatic restrictions on our lists:
-The only HQ allowed was The Swarmlord for me, and Mephiston for him.
-Only 1 Combined arms detachment, no formations.
-1500 points

That led to an interesting clash of concepts. I ran MSU Tyranids, and my opponent did a heavy armor list. We were using the Maelstrom of War missions, and so my MSU approach won out.

My list.

His List


Battle Highlights:


Takaways:
1) MSU works, especially when using Tac Cards.
2) Rippers still suck. Take gaunts instead.
3) Objective secured Land Raiders are stupid.
4) Joining ICs to Mephiston is powerful.
5) The Swarmlord, despite being stupidly overcosted can still get it done once in a while.
6) Shrikes! Shrikes! Shrikes!. They scored a lot of objectives for me. Way more mobile than warriors. Only reason to ever take warriors again is FOC is full of Fast, or they are needed for a formation.

Final thoughts:
By the rules of the campaign, I can't use Zoenthropes in my next battle. I'm thinking I will try for Ductvader's Turn 2 Tsunami list provided I don't get matched up with a Land Raider spammer again.

 Tyran wrote:
I disagree, the appeal of rippers is that they don't need synapse and can deep strike, making them good for Flying lists. In your list were all moved together, gaunts are better.

I deep struck the Rippers onto my opponent's backfield objective. They scattered 8". They ran 4". My opponent, recognizing my desire to take that objective use POTMS to insta kill them with an assault cannon from the Land Raider. Not every army has S8 to spare for insta killing warriors, but every single army is going to have divertible S6 or S7 shooting to insta kill rippers. In that way they might as well be 3 wounds instead of 9 in a min squad. The same cost will get you 10 Gaunts.

 SHUPPET wrote:
My god the Swarmlord sucks. Yeah he can "get it done once it a while", but at a ridiculous cost, and even then only just.

The fascinating thing was The Swarmlord + 2 Tyrant guard made their points back and then some. Their kill count looked like this.
5 man Tac Squad w/ Flamer and Combi Flamer.
Mephiston
Furioso Librian
for a total of 525 points.
He also scored 4 points for Warlord, 1 Point for issuing a challenge, 1 Point for controlling an objective and 1 point for killing a unit in assault.

A Flying Hive tyrant could have made his points, but wouldn't have scored the Tactical cards. Also, a Flying Hive Tyrant would have had no answer to Mephiston, and Brother Corbolo, who's 3+/2++ could eat an insane amount of dakka. I'm not arguing that the Swarmlord is better than a Flying Hive Tyrant most of the time, but in this matchup he was.

Spoletta wrote:
1 Prime for a FOC and Deathleeper for the other one

And yes i totally do it for the gaunts.

So how many models do your run at 1850? 200? 250?

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
1 Prime for a FOC and Deathleeper for the other one

And yes i totally do it for the gaunts.

So how many models do your run at 1850? 200? 250?

You can take about 50 Termagants + 50 Hormagants + 100 AG+TS Hormagaunts iif he just runs Prime and Deathleaper and still have some points left over for a few Venomthropes.

My instincts tell me that you should never run AG+TS gaunts in 7th. In 6th it made sense, because you got to reroll wounds. But with the change to the poison rule in 7th it seems like gaunts should have one upgrade or the other to avoid them being too much of a points sink.

I think a decent no-MC army could look like this: