The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**tag8833**

ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

ETA: It is indeed a rule, I was mistaken.

**ashikenshin**

tag8833 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

**Khaine's Wrath**

tag8833 wrote:
ductvader wrote:
I don't understand why you'd think this...

7th nerfed all walking MCs by nerfing Smash, taking away area terrain, bumping the vehicle damage table.

It nerfed Crones and Harpies by reducing vector strike, and bumping the vehicle damage table, and taking away assault, and of course smash.

It nerfed Flyrants by allowing opponents to deny catalyst, and taking away assault, the buff to the vehicle damage table, and of course smash. It did buff flyrants with unlimited witchfires, and only 1 grounding test. I would say that flyrants are a wash or maybe a minor buff overall.

It nerfed Zoeys by keeping Warp Lance Warp charge 2, meaning that we have to steal power dice from other psychers to use it. Also, it will explode 50% fewer vehicles than before. Minor buff by allowing them to cast 2 powers. Also they are a good warp charge battery. We will see more Zoeys, but they will be less effective. On the other hand, my zoey did peril in my last game. Rolled a 6 and gained a 3+ invl.

It nerfed Warriors / shrikes / raveners by upping the vehicle damage table, which is a double nerf because now there will be more S8 weapons out there, and also, it will be harder for them to pop vehicles.

It nerfed our troops with the new missions. We've got to move from objective to objective throughout the game, and are encourage to spread our troops out. Our troops are known to eat themselves or run away if they spread out.

It nerfed Venoms. Bastion has to be inside deployment zone. Venom in a box just got its range reduced a lot. No more area terrain.

It nerfed Gargoyles with the new blind rule.

The unit who got most buffed is the Broodlord. Pinned units no longer overwatch. Even if he doesn't get Dominion because he can't roll, and thus can't get the bonus for rolling from a single table, he is still a bit better, but still ridiculously overcosted.

Lets take a look at our MC wargear.
TL Devs - Nerfed against vehicles
STC - Nerfed against vehicles
HVC - Nerfed so bad it might have become useless.
Rupture Cannon - Nerfed again as if it was useful before. Now it is the most overcosted item in the entire codex.
Crushing Claws - Nerfed. Still a good chance to pen, but only wreck 1/2 as often.
Rending Claws - Lost AP:2 against vehicles. MC's still have AP:2, but Shrikes, Raveners, Genesteelers, and Warriors suffer.

Our only anti-heavy armor weapon that might still be useful is warp lance, and it is only 1/2 as good as it was.

Meanwhile, psychic powers got universally better. Except for ours which got worse by comparison, and because we only have 1 that really matters most of the time (catalyst), it means our opponents are going to throw all of their deny dice at it. SitW got worse.

The new missions are so much more fun, they are going to encourage gunlines to move a bit, but they absolutely eviscerate us. They rely on speed. We are an army seriously lacking in speed. If they hadn't taken assault away from FMCs, we might still do ok in the new missions, but as is, we are screwed.

The new vehicle pen table is such a pain for us. I was already seeing vehicle spam everywhere I looked in my local meta, and already I was struggling to pop vehicles. Now it is 2-3 times as hard to pop vehicles.

Also, it is worth noting that other MC's didn't get nerfed like ours did. How am I going to deal with 2-3 wraith knights now that I lost vector strikes, and I can't smash them to death in assault? I've got to spend points on poison for my HGaunts or something.

How about Riptides? Before I could assault with a Harpy, a Crone, and a flyrant, and smash it to death. No longer. It can't smash my crones to death as reliably, but is mainly left intact.

How about Walkers? Huge buff. How do we deal with those now? If they assault us, we are probably dead.

In every way we got worse, and other armies got better. We were mid-teir before. Why do I think we are solidly bottom tier now?

I have to say I agree with pretty much all of this. I am determined to start a nid army, because I love the fluff. And perhaps the challenge appeals to me. But they are one of the worst. Almost all other armies have at least a few improvements. And every army has multiple units that can deal with any of ours. As opposed to our few units that struggle to deal with many of theirs.

I'm not complaining though. Going to suck it up and still bring the bugs. No one plays them in my meta. I'm hoping that will give me at least a little edge!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ashikenshin wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

Exactly.

**tag8833**

ashikenshin wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

You are right. I stand corrected. My 2nd game of 7th featured a violation of this rule, because somehow my opponent and I both missed it. To be fair, I denied both attempted powers, so it had no effect on gameplay.

ETA: that is something of a bonus we have over fluffier armies with only a few psychers. We can generate a bunch of denial dice. But not as many as Grey Knights, Demons, or even Eldar.

**rigeld2**

ashikenshin wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

Yes, it depends on its Mastery Level.
Why does that mean it must equal its Mastery Level? Isn't it also correct that if the number were ML*2 it would still depend on your Mastery Level?

**Khaine's Wrath**

rigeld2 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Xyptc wrote:

Where does it say he can only cast one power?

the broodlord is mastery level 1, so only one spell per turn

That isn't a rule in 7th.

hmm then I don't know how to interpret this line from the rulebook :(

“The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-interactive/id879163850?mt=11

Yes, it depends on its Mastery Level.
Why does that mean it must equal its Mastery Level? Isn't it also correct that if the number were ML*2 it would still depend on your Mastery Level?

There's a thread about this in YMDC....it's probably better off staying there....

**RiTides**

A lot of helpful posts in the last few pages, thanks guys! Looks like I'll need to watch how things shake out a bit more before determining how to finish building out my nids.

One general question- if a tournament format limits players to a single detachment, we can still ally with ourselves now, right? (Even if we only take a single primary detachment). So we can be reasonably sure of having at least 1 extra HQ and heavy slot, even without a second detachment?

xttz wrote:
Something I just noticed while reviewing the USR list... Blind has been changed to be like grounding tests - a single init test made at the end of the phase regardless of how many Blind attacks there were. That means Gargoyles can't benefit from it on the turn they attack, and there's a good chance of most units passing the single test rather than having to pass multiple tests like before.

Updating my Nids 7E overview:

~General~
[BUFF] The FOC is just a formality now, opening up use of lots more Elite / HS slots.
[BUFF] Rippers are now super-scoring. Yay.
[BUFF] We can take allies! (just). Gentlemen, commence the Genestealer cults...
[BUFF] Grounding tests are much more reliable. Failed tests also mean you can't be blown apart with every weapon on the board, and are only vulnerable to being charged.
[NERF] Vector strikes do much less damage to ground and slightly less to air, but gained AP2 making them better for beating TEQs.
[NERF] No more area terrain cover.
[NERF] No more attaching Primes to Carnifex broods.
[NERF] Nids can't deal with AV13+ reliably without Lords of War, or tons of Zoanthropes. We're really going to struggle with super-scoring Land Raiders.

~Psychic~
[BUFF] All Tyranid psykers get Dominion in addition to their normal rolls, which is helpful.
[BUFF] We generally get a decent amount of warp charge thanks to Tyrants, and can spam cheap Zoanthrope broods for more
[BUFF] Zoanthrope broods can use 2 powers per turn now
[BUFF] Warp Blast/Lance can be used in addition to other shooting attacks
[NERF] Psychic tests on the whole are less reliable than the old Ld10 tests.

~Assault~
[BUFF] Charges are more reliable thanks to nearly everything gribbly having Move Through Cover.
[BUFF] Go To Ground now prevents Overwatch fire, helping Pinning weapons like Biovores, Barbed Stranglers and The Horror
[NERF] Smash took a major nerf. Crushing Claw Fexes are the best option for killing heavy armour in melee (if you can get them there alive).
[NERF] Poison now requires a higher strength for a re-roll, rather than equal to toughness.
[NERF] FMCs can't assault on the turn they change flight mode, but can still assault after failing a grounding test.
[NERF] Blind has been changed to be like grounding tests - a single init test made at the end of the phase regardless of how many Blind attacks there were.

~Shooting~
[NERF] Our only weapon able to one-shot AV13+ at range is Warp Lance - HVCs effectively had their damage roll penalty restored and won't cut it anymore.

~Lords of War~
[BUFF] D-weapons were pretty majorly toned down. Hierophants have a better chance of surviving a Revenant or Warhound now. Don't forget Venomthropes for them - or better yet, use the transport upgrade to carry them around with a huge radius. Hierodules will still evaporate on turn 1 because they're overpriced garbage.
[BUFF] Harridans are the shiznit. Seriously. With the grounding test change there are very few skyfire weapons that can scratch them. Harridans are our only serious counter to anything Knight-sized and larger, so if you play against super-heavies you should really acquire one.

**jifel**

BeeCee wrote:
jifel wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Hey guys,

Trying to catch up on this thread a little bit. Why is it that the majority feels that skyblight is still the way to go? It seems like the crone got a bit worse with the vector strike nerf and did the harpy really get that much better by not being grounded as easy?

Flyrants are much better and seem to form the backbone of the tyranid offense. Crones and Harpies are worse assaulters/Vector Strikers but better gun platforms. We are highly mobile and can reach objectives easily. Crones are needed for Haywire. Plus, ground Monstrous creatures that rely on assault got horribly nerfed.

It seems like the crone took a bit of a nerf to me, i shudder at counting on BS 3 missiles vs ground targets. I definitely see the value of the flyrants, especially with thorax haywire. Sure the crone and the harpy are more sturdy but i'm ultimately not sold on the return on investment for the points and shooting a stranglethorn cannon and spore mines (but admittedly, i don't have much experience with them).

With the smash nerf i can definitely see how our other MCs took a nerf but who really really using trygons much? Mawlocs still have value for hit and run and the terror from the deep. If anything the carnifex got more valuable with a base str of 9, d3 hammer of wrath hits, etc... If anything with objective placement before choosing deployment type/choosing sides and no penalties for charging through cover didn't our foot MCs at least get a buff when it comes to actually getting in to CC?

I am challenging you for understanding here, not to be combatative. Even with the nerfs, to me it doesn't feel like a terrible time to be a bug player. I mean honestly, it's not like i am going to do worse.

The crone did take a minor nerf. Not as good striking, but will last longer. I think it will still be common not a must take because we have no ranged anti tank, and a strength 8 hit plus haywire is still decent. I will run at least 1, plus 2 harpies.

**KillerWabbit**

Yeah, while our FMCs got a bit more survivable, we got hammered a bit everywhere else. Our list is more challenging to play and, for the most part, has been for a long, long time.

If we wanted easy, we'd play Space Marines.

We can still drop a MASSIVE amount of dakka on the board. Vehicles will be a problem. I'll just hull point you to death. Honestly, it isn't much worse than the pre-hull point days. How many time did you have to hit a vehicle to actually DO anything to it back then? Sure, you COULD kill one in a single hit, but more often than not you would sit there as the extra armor'd Rhino merrily ignored what you did and disgorged whatever it wanted to, whenever it wanted to. So, same thing as now.

As with pretty much every other list, since assault is more-or-less dead for now, it is all about volume of fire. I can do that quite well. Flyrants, DakkaFexes, Exocrines... we have to work a bit more for it, but we can move-and-shoot EVERYTHING. The new rules seem to abhor static builds, and we don't have to stay still. We can still flood the board cheaply, and synapse is not impossible to achieve relatively cheaply.

No, I don't see us tabling opponents often. But using the new missions, I see us winning a good bit. I just won one where I had a 2-wound Hive Crone, one 12 man squad of termagants, and 3-man squad of Warriors left of my army in round 5. My opponent had lost maybe a third of his army (lots of vehicles and some AMAZINGLY bad rolling on my part). VP-wise, we were tied 2-2...

I got objective 3 cards. d3 if his Warlord ended my turn dead (I had already killed him). Two Secure Objective 2's ( had my warriors parked on it). One die roll later, I had 5 more VPs. One more die roll and he was shaking my hand in DISBELIEF.

We are going to have to be flexible, folks. I agree we have it a bit rough right now, but all of the doom and gloom is alarmist at this point, IMHO. Run some Skyblight with big gargoyle packs. Run some Endless Swarm. Have fun with it!

Unless you are playing the old missions, in which case... well, good luck!

**Zach**

So are our tail attacks considered separate for purposes of smash? Can we smash and still have a tail attack?

**pinecone77**

roxor08 wrote:
Wow. Why did they even bother doing an "official" FAQ for Nids then? Literally, everything they changed doesn't make any difference.

One question, however: I've seen people referring to "Master of Ambush" strategic trait and being able to "reroll" when they don't get the one they want. Why the reroll?

If you're Battle Forged, you get to re-roll Warlord trait....

**tag8833**

KillerWabbit wrote:
We are going to have to be flexible, folks.

I agree that we have to be flexible to win the Maelstrom of war missions. What I object to is that our codex has been made much, much less flexible. We are slow. We need Synapse. We depend on cover for survivability. We can't deal with AV 13 and 14, or really any AV in assault.

We are going to keep winning some games, but we now have 3 times as many auto-lose matchups as we did in 6th. No amount of optimistic thinking is going to help you kill 9 super-scoring drop pods, and the troops in them.

**luke1705**

tag8833 wrote:
KillerWabbit wrote:
We are going to have to be flexible, folks.

I agree that we have to be flexible to win the Maelstrom of war missions. What I object to is that our codex has been made much, much less flexible. We are slow. We need Synapse. We depend on cover for survivability. We can't deal with AV 13 and 14, or really any AV in assault.

We are going to keep winning some games, but we now have 3 times as many auto-lose matchups as we did in 6th. No amount of optimistic thinking is going to help you kill 9 super-scoring drop pods, and the troops in them.

Mawlocs certainly will, however. I think Biovores will also be important. It is sadly true that Nids can lay down the dakka pretty well for an army that is supposed to assault and knaw your face off. Then again, maybe this will herald the return of the turn 2 "whole army arrives at once" strategy. What if we worked the venomthrope into the bastion such that our two flyrants could glide forward on turn one while jinking to achieve 2+ cover? They could then assault things on turn 2, tying up units that would like to shoot at the mawlocs that could land on the table accidentally (or on purpose after destroying a unit entirely). And as much as I like a Fex as an answer to armor, it just won't get the chance against a smart opponent. The tank can simply out-maneuver it. Perhaps stealers could thrive in a list like this where they are the third most menacing threat (behind the flyrants, not behind the mawloc if your opponent is smart)

**Razerous**

jifel wrote:So shadows now sucks huge kroot balls. Great. Really Gw? It wasn't hard.

It's super sad that SitW doesn't prevent powers directly.
However it does mean that psyker's, when casting the big money powers (and are rolling 7-9 D6 to do so reliably at 75%+) are going to die horrible horrible deaths on 50/50 odds.

This is, of course, assuming they are LD10, reducing to LD7. These horrors & heralds people are talking about taking by the bucket load... the horrors provide the dice, sure, but the heralds? LD8. Thats now LD5 due to SitW.

Just try rolling 7-8+ D6 and see how many 6's you get. Then have a look @ the perils table (TL

R - It's really bad for daemons... and everyone else).

Edit: With scoring being as it is, I'm going to try the following;
4x Flyrants
1x Crone
3x Mawlocs

Embrace the Unbound element, basically ignoring the troop tax (Command Benefits can do one!), adding in a ton of mobility & having a pretty TAC list. Fluffy too!

**streamdragon**

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
FAQ's up, Broodlords can actually use Dominion now.

This has been discussed a bit in a few threads. It looks like since Broodlords don't actually roll their powers, they don't get Psychic Focus. So Broodlords are stuck with just The Horror. (Which is not exactly a bad power with the buff to pinning attacks!)

This doesn't make any sense.....

Since the Broodlord is the only psykers who isn't also a synapse creature, then that rule MUST be aimed at him...

Although being ML 1 means he can only cast 1 power a turn anyway. As it states, in bold, in the rule book.

Let's be real, it wouldn't be the first time GW added "clarifications" that made 0 sense.

These are the relevant rules, presented for discussion:

Psychic Focus (rulebook page 22)
If a Psyker generates all of his powers from the same psychic discipline (eve if he can only generate one power), that Psyker is said to have Psychic Focus, and gains that discipline's primaris power in addition to his other powers. (rest goes on to discuss losing psychic focus if you gain powers from another discipline, how Force doesn't count, and chaos psychic focus.)

Generating Psychic Powers[b] (rulebook page 23)
Psykers generate their psychic powers before the game begins. This is done openly, so both you and your opponent are aware of the power(s) each Psyker has generated. If your army includes more than one Psyker, you can choose the order in which you generate their powers.

In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

To randomly generate a psychic power, (do some stuff; rules snipped for both copyright and brevity).

Primaris Powers (subsection of [b]Generating Psychic Powers above
Immediately after generating a psychic power, a Psyker can always choose to substitute the power generated for the discipline's primaris power.

Basically it will come down to "does having a set power list count as 'generating psychic powers' or not"? I would posit it does not. After all if it did count as generating, you would be able so swap specifically noted powers for the primaris, which we all know is not allowed. Subbing for the primaris doesn't require the power be randomly generated, simply that it be generated. If getting a specific power is counted as "generating" that power, why can't we swap for Primaris? (Aside from it being a moot point for Broodlords; I'm speaking in general rules terms at this point).

This probably really belongs in YMDC, so I've crossposted it there.

**djm55**

So I've seen a number of references to expanded rules for the Hierophant in an Imperial Armour book. Could somebody please fill me in as to which book has these rules? Because I'm seriously intrigued by the idea of transporting Stealers on a Hierophant

More on topic, I think that overall Nids got the short end of the stick in 7th. The main reason for this is the fact that Nids have trouble spreading out in order to claim the now quite numerous objectives on the board without babysitting. Of course, that won't stop me from playing my bugs and snacking on some man flesh.

**tag8833**

Played a game tonight with my modified list to deal with Land Raider Spam.

I was allied with Orks, and we ran 1500 points. The space marine player ran 3000 points.

True to form, my opponent brought 2 Land Raider and a Caestus Assault Ram. Plus 4-5 Rhinos. It was a fairly big game.

I brought:

Spoiler:

It wasn't an effective test of my ability to deal with heavy armor, because my Ork friend popped both Land Raiders, and our opponent conceded on turn 3. I did manage to make good use of flyrants with E.Grubs. Thanks to the greater survivability of the flyrants, I played them very aggressively, and was able to catch 2 Rhinos with 1 Template, and 6 Snipers + a Land Raider with the second. I also fired off Warp blast from a flyrant in both turns, and immobilized a Rhino once, and Killed 7 Devastators with an assist from some Lootas for first blood. The Crone never came in, and the Carnifexes rolled a 2 for their onslaught run, and didn't manage to get into range. If I had been able to shoot on turn 3, I would have killed one Rhino with the Fexes, and the immobilized one + 8 Marines would have got a taste of my Egrubs. My other flyrant was probably going to pop the last rhino.

Overall, I think I might have underestimated the usefulness of E.Grubs on a flyrant It can only take one vehicle hit point, but because of the size of the template, I can often do more damage than that single HP. But mainly, I think that Warp Blast is awesome for a flyrant now that I don't have to shoot it at the same target as my TL-Devourers and it doesn't count as shooting one weapon. I had a few situations where I missed the vector strike as a way to kill marines, and boy would I have liked to get into assault from Flying on Turn 3, but I think the Flyrant is probably net buffed by the edition, and even more critical to tyranids than before.

I killed lots of marines, Devestators, Scouts, and several rhinos, and ended the game having lost a total of 3 HGaunts. My Ally lost 20 Ork boyz, 3 Gretchin, and a Battle wagon, and killed 2 Land Speeders, a bunch of scouts, a bunch of marines, and both Land Raiders.

**SHUPPET**

It's undeniable we have been nerfed... the missions play to our disadvantages, assault has for some reason been given more nerfs, and tanks getting buffed + Nids being the only army with no vehicles is directly equivalent to a direct Tyranid nerf. Not to mention all the smaller things like Vector Strike nerfs and fortification in deployment, which technically does affect every army, but is really the most relevant to us.

I just don't understand it. Nerfs to smash? Why? Just to ensure we have NO way to deal with the coming superlandraider rampage?

It isn't all bad however, as we can now take allies. This is where I think my focus will be for competitive matchs. Not sure what the best anti-tank that can be allied in is. Obviously with the CtA restrictions, positioning is relevant, as such it will likely be best have to be something that hangs backfield and can deal with Heavy Armor, or starts in reserves and deepstrikes/enters as a flyer. Have a few ideas, but would love to hear some suggestions.

**PrinceRaven**

SHUPPET wrote:
I just don't understand it. Nerfs to smash? Why?

Well you see, people were complaining about Riptides and Wraithknights being overpowered, so GW took out their Decisions Dartboard, put pieces of paper with all the things those two units had in common on it, and the dart hit "Smash", so they nerfed it.

**bodazoka**

SHUPPET wrote:
It's undeniable we have been nerfed... the missions play to our disadvantages, assault has for some reason been given more nerfs, and tanks getting buffed + Nids being the only army with no vehicles is directly equivalent to a direct Tyranid nerf. Not to mention all the smaller things like Vector Strike nerfs and fortification in deployment, which technically does affect every army, but is really the most relevant to us.

I just don't understand it. Nerfs to smash? Why? Just to ensure we have NO way to deal with the coming superlandraider rampage?

It isn't all bad however, as we can now take allies. This is where I think my focus will be for competitive matchs. Not sure what the best anti-tank that can be allied in is. Obviously with the CtA restrictions, positioning is relevant, as such it will likely be best have to be something that hangs backfield and can deal with Heavy Armor, or starts in reserves and deepstrikes/enters as a flyer. Have a few ideas, but would love to hear some suggestions.

The fact that we can ally with ourselves and the increasing acceptance of Dataslates is worth 7th edition for Nid players IMO.

Arguably no one benefits more from allying with themselves more than we do.

**DarkStarSabre**

...I have to say...looking at the 7th ed. FAQ.

Synaptic Lynchpin - Uh....what? Every single HQ choice we have that can roll for Warlord traits on the table has Synapse. The only ones that don't have predetermined Warlord Traits already.

One could argue for Unbound...but...uh....what exactly would you take as a Warlord in an Unbound army that doesn't have synapse or pre-determined Warlord traits?

**BlaxicanX**

As I'm not a Tyranid player, there isn't a whole lot I can really contribute to this thread.

But, I just wanted to say that I find it utterly hilarious in a sad kind of way that it's literally impossible for a rupture cannon to one-shot an ork trukk or a venom now.

**tetrisphreak**

DarkStarSabre wrote:...I have to say...looking at the 7th ed. FAQ.

Synaptic Lynchpin - Uh....what? Every single HQ choice we have that can roll for Warlord traits on the table has Synapse. The only ones that don't have predetermined Warlord Traits already.

One could argue for Unbound...but...uh....what exactly would you take as a Warlord in an Unbound army that doesn't have synapse or pre-determined Warlord traits?

Any character can be the warlord and still roll on the warlord traits table - the red terror is a non-synapse creature character, as is a Broodlord.

BlaxicanX wrote:As I'm not a Tyranid player, there isn't a whole lot I can really contribute to this thread.

But, I just wanted to say that I find it utterly hilarious in a sad kind of way that it's literally impossible for a rupture cannon to one-shot an ork trukk or a venom now.

Yes they can - open topped vehicles still get +1 to damage results.

**RiTides**

So, from YMDC and the rulebook wording, it seems we have to take two Combined Arms Detachments (CADs) to get more slots- we can't actually "ally" with ourselves, despite the battle brothers chart.

The relevant rule:

Allied Detachment

...

All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or no Faction).

I'm not anticipating events wanting two CADs and the silliness it brings, so looks like I'll have to plan to get my extra slots through dataslates for now. Thoughts appreciated here. Would've loved to ally with myself for just one extra slot of everything, it's much more palatable... but also against the rules!

**xttz**

djm55 wrote:So I've seen a number of references to expanded rules for the Hierophant in an Imperial Armour book. Could somebody please fill me in as to which book has these rules? Because I'm seriously intrigued by the idea of transporting Stealers on a Hierophant

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_APOCALYPSE.html

Basically for 50pts you can treat the Hierophant as an assault transport with a capacity of 20.

The other upgrades include a skyfire weapon, a hellstorm weapon, a super-spore mine launcher with apoc barrage, and a stronger version of acid blood that can do a decent amount of damage to enemies in combat.

RiTides wrote:
One general question- if a tournament format limits players to a single detachment, we can still ally with ourselves now, right? (Even if we only take a single primary detachment). So we can be reasonably sure of having at least 1 extra HQ and heavy slot, even without a second detachment?

Technically we can't ally with ourselves, as Allied detachments must be a different faction. We can however take multiple 'combined arms' detachments, each with 1 HQ 2 Troops minimum. 7th edition removed the requirement of 2000pts to do that, which will no doubt annoy the 1999+1 crowd.

If the tournament is limiting use of that ability, then you're pretty much stuck with one FOC (plus any formations, if allowed).

**RiTides**

Ninja'ed xttz- was just lamenting that above!

Interestingly, it seems right now marines can't even ally with marines... hmmmmmm.

**PrinceRaven**

Yes they can, their Codex allows them to.

Unless it's been FAQ'd, of course.

**tetrisphreak**

PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes they can, their Codex allows them to.

Unless it's been FAQ'd, of course.

Their FAQ (that came out yesterday) explicitly states that Marines indeed can take ally detachments of Marines, provided they are different chapter tactics from the primary.

**tag8833**

RiTides wrote:
So, from YMDC and the rulebook wording, it seems we have to take two Combined Arms Detachments (CADs) to get more slots- we can't actually "ally" with ourselves, despite the battle brothers chart.

The relevant rule:

Allied Detachment

...

All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or no Faction).

I'm not anticipating events wanting two CADs and the silliness it brings, so looks like I'll have to plan to get my extra slots through dataslates for now. Thoughts appreciated here. Would've loved to ally with myself for just one extra slot of everything, it's much more palatable... but also against the rules!

I don't anticipate anyone using that RAW. My gaming group Universally decided that they wanted to allow 1 Primary Detachment, and 1 Allied detachment or Formation which can be from the same Faction. GW has managed to write rules for list composition so bad or at least undesirable, that I forsee almost no one playing them. Demanding to play them RAW will just get you ostracized from play in the same way that trying to play Ovesa star against newbies. Using multiple CAD's isn't an opportunity for Tyranids, it is a trap for TFG.

**RiTides**

Yeah, that's why I was hoping we could ally with ourselves instead of needing to take multiple CAD's. Looks like I'll be building a Living Artillery Node after all to get those extra slots.

Good catch on the Marine FAQ allowing them to ally with themselves (if taking different chapter tactics), thanks for that guys.

However, the specific fact that they are given permission to do so in the FAQ, but under the condition they take different chapter tactics, seems to pretty clearly indicate that you do need permission to do this / the rulebook does not allow it... right now, we don't have that permission.

Space Marine FAQ wrote:Page 77 - Allies

This should be replaced with the following: 'Space Marines can be taken in an Allied Detachment (see page 122 of Warhammer 40k: The Rules) even if your army's Primary Detachment contains units with the Space Marines Faction, provided that they have a different set of Chapter Tactics. Units in these Detachments are treated as Battle Brothers.'