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nkelsch wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Also guilty of one count if "shooting" I think.

Sounds like they all agreed that he was quilty on the first count, but couldn't agree to the actual degree of the charge.

Yeah, not great, but 'better than nothing'. And unreasonable racist trigger-happy man is off the street at least. Florida needs to change some laws... I have heard there has been big pushes to hurt the tourism trade until issues are addressed... Will it matter? Will a 'don't vacation in Florida' Boycott work? maybe...

Where are the snow birds gonna go? California? We're talking retirees here, they don't have that kind of money.

 djones520 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Also guilty of one count if "shooting" I think.

Sounds like they all agreed that he was quilty on the first count, but couldn't agree to the actual degree of the charge.

Yeah, not great, but 'better than nothing'. And unreasonable racist trigger-happy man is off the street at least. Florida needs to change some laws... I have heard there has been big pushes to hurt the tourism trade until issues are addressed... Will it matter? Will a 'don't vacation in Florida' Boycott work? maybe...

Where are the snow birds gonna go? California? We're talking retirees here, they don't have that kind of money.

What are the biggest tourist draws in Florida?

You got the snowbirds, the summer coastal crowd, and the Theme Park families; is there anybody else?

Topless college girls and idiot guys who come to see them, during spring break?

nkelsch wrote:
Florida needs to change some laws... I have heard there has been big pushes to hurt the tourism trade until issues are addressed... Will it matter? Will a 'don't vacation in Florida' Boycott work? maybe...

What laws do they need to change? The guy is going to prison.

They can retry for the murder and charge it as murder 2 correct?

 cincydooley wrote:
They can retry for the murder and charge it as murder 2 correct?

Well, Murder 2 was already included in the Murder 1 charge. But maybe removing the higher charge would make it less likely that the jury would hang on two different charges again.

It would also seem consistent with the fact that every other kid in the car was "attempted Murder 2".

Good.

Hope he doesn't get parole.

Anyone know why this wasn't charged as a hate crime? I mean, the "hate thug music" part would seem to indicate they'd have a pretty solid leg to stand on.

10-20-Life I believe is the penalty in Florida, so he's looking at a minimum of 30 years. 77 years old at the end of that. We're most likely talking life here.

That's at the bare minimum.

 Hordini wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Florida needs to change some laws... I have heard there has been big pushes to hurt the tourism trade until issues are addressed... Will it matter? Will a 'don't vacation in Florida' Boycott work? maybe...

What laws do they need to change? The guy is going to prison.

Exactly.

 cincydooley wrote:
Anyone know why this wasn't charged as a hate crime? I mean, the "hate thug music" part would seem to indicate they'd have a pretty solid leg to stand on.

I don't think hating Thugs really qualifies as a hate crime. Unless we equate Thugs with a specific Race, and that is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down.

Looks like he's in for awhile and facing a second murder trial:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/15/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

All in all this feels pretty justice-y for me, even with the mistrial on murder 1 - which was almost certainly an overreach anyway and it will be re-done.

He's almost certainly going to die in prison.

 cincydooley wrote:
Just found it Ouze. You're right. I bet that's why they're taking longer. 1st degree murder seems like a huge stretch to begin with.

The prosecution argued that the close grouping of rounds meant the shooter must have had time to aim and control his fire, which means pre-meditation. Which is just fething bonkers, if you ask me.

I mean, on first degree murder I have no idea if it applies, because I don't know the standard for first degree in Florida. But the idea that you can look at bullet groupings and use that to speculate on the state of mind of the shooter seems fairly ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
Guilty of 3 counts of attempted second degree murder, and mistrial one one count of first degree murder.

Ah, the extended wait was over which charge of murder would apply. That makes sense.

 sebster wrote:
The prosecution argued that the close grouping of rounds meant the shooter must have had time to aim and control his fire, which means pre-meditation. Which is just fething bonkers, if you ask me.

I mean, on first degree murder I have no idea if it applies, because I don't know the standard for first degree in Florida. But the idea that you can look at bullet groupings and use that to speculate on the state of mind of the shooter seems fairly ridiculous.

Was that the same prosecutor that said in the Zimmermann trial that by having a round chambered in a CCW meant that you were intent on killing someone?

Murder One was a stupid charge. It was stupid in the Zimmerman case (and likely why he got off... Manslaughter would've been a much easier sell) and it was stupid in this case.

Most prosecutors, the ones with brains in their heads anyway, don't push for Murder One charges. It is the hardest murder charge to convict on because the premeditation component is so difficult to prove. Unless the killer used poison (which, due to the difficulty in administering to a victim automatically shows premeditation) or unless the prosecution has a stack of detailed notes in the defendant's handwriting which detail all of the steps of the crime, Murder Two is typically the best a sane prosecutor will push for. Even if they know in their heart that the case is Murder One, if they can't prove murder one, they will go for Murder Two, and try to get the judge to impose the maximum allowable sentence (which can still be a fair stretch of time, especially if parole is denied).

Clearly, the prosecutors in Florida need to go back to law school and learn this stuff over again.

Manslaughter was a lesser included charge in the Zimmerman case was it not?

 LordofHats wrote:
Manslaughter was a lesser included charge in the Zimmerman case was it not?

I believe it was, but I'm not certain.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0711/George-Zimmerman-trial-Jury-can-consider-lesser-charge-of-manslaughter-video

Seems it was.

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Manslaughter was a lesser included charge in the Zimmerman case was it not?

I believe it was, but I'm not certain.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0711/George-Zimmerman-trial-Jury-can-consider-lesser-charge-of-manslaughter-video

Seems it was.

I hadn't heard that before. Thanks for the link.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Was that the same prosecutor that said in the Zimmermann trial that by having a round chambered in a CCW meant that you were intent on killing someone?

And I thought we were all doing such a good job of not mentioning the Zimmerman trial...

Bad shoot, dude's a fethhead. Glad he's in prison. Nice one Florida.

 sebster wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Was that the same prosecutor that said in the Zimmermann trial that by having a round chambered in a CCW meant that you were intent on killing someone?

And I thought we were all doing such a good job of not mentioning the Zimmerman trial...

Sadly, seb, a lot of my minority friends on FB don't see this guy, or this situation, any differently than the Zimmerman case.

Makes me really sad.

I'm correct in that the DA has stated intent to retry on murder correct?

In teresting discussion last night on MSNBC (yes sometimes one likes to spy on Mordor) and there was discussion that charging with 1st degree doesn't work here based on the specific requirements for 1st degree, but that 2nd degree is appropriate and should be the charge (aka DA keeps overcharging and juries are pouring out). Sounds like premediation may be a requirement for 1st degree there, which could not be met.

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm correct in that the DA has stated intent to retry on murder correct?

In teresting discussion last night on MSNBC (yes sometimes one likes to spy on Mordor) and there was discussion that charging with 1st degree doesn't work here based on the specific requirements for 1st degree, but that 2nd degree is appropriate and should be the charge (aka DA keeps overcharging and juries are pouring out). Sounds like premediation may be a requirement for 1st degree there, which could not be met.

Yeah, I said the same thing a few posts earlier. The DA in this case keeps pushing the charges too far, and should probably be replaced. First Degree murder is much harder to convict on than it is on TV, because of the difficulty in proving the premeditation component.

Rise!



http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/01/justice/michael-dunn-loud-music-verdict/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Jacksonville, Florida (CNN) -- Jurors found Michael Dunn guilty of first-degree murder Wednesday in the 2012 shooting death 17-year-old Jordan Davis.

Dunn's parents were in the courtroom for the verdict. Davis' parents, Ron Davis and Lucia MacBath, both let out a quiet gasp upon hearing the jury forewoman's words and then hung their heads and cried. Dunn did not appear to have an immediate reaction, but later, he turned around and somberly shook his head toward his father.

Duval County Judge Russell Healey set a tentative sentencing hearing for October 17 but said he would wait until Tuesday to ensure the date worked for Dunn's defense attorneys.

"This has been going on for two years, and everyone has acted graciously. I ask that you continue to do that," Healey said before the verdict was read. "Remember, we must respect the verdict of the jury. They did not volunteer to do this."

Dunn, 47, was charged with murder after shooting into an SUV full of teenagers at a Jacksonville, Florida, gas station following a squabble over the music emanating from the teens' vehicle.

Dunn has said he shot at the vehicle because he thought Davis had a weapon and feared for his life, but the prosecution has alleged Dunn was the aggressor and pointed out he kept firing even after the teens fled.

Three of the 10 shots that Dunn fired struck Davis, one of them cutting through his liver, a lung and his aorta.
Investigators say Davis never had a weapon, nor was one found in the teens' SUV or the surrounding area.

A jury found Dunn guilty of four charges in February, commanding at least 60 years in prison, but the jury was hung on the murder charge related to Davis' November 2012 death.

Jurors began deliberating on the new charges just before 10 a.m. ET on Wednesday, after Healey dismissed two of the three alternates and provided instructions for the charges jurors were to consider.

The first charge to consider, Healey said, was first-degree murder, which would require that Dunn premeditated killing Davis.

If the jury didn't feel the state proved first-degree murder, it was instructed to move on to second-degree, which would mean Dunn killed Davis via a criminal or depraved act.
The third charge was manslaughter, which would require a finding that Dunn unlawfully caused Davis' death.

Killing Davis was lawful, Healey told the jury, if Dunn acted in the heat of passion or if he unintentionally caused Davis' death. The jury could also find Dunn not guilty if he was in danger, acted in self-defense and exacted a justifiable use of force, the judge instructed.

Dunn was convicted in February on one count of shooting into a vehicle and three counts of attempted second-degree murder -- one each for Davis' friends, Leland Brunson, Tommie Stornes and Tevin Thompson, who were in the Dodge Durango with Davis that day.

The Satellite Beach, Florida, man hasn't been sentenced on those charges, but prosecutor Eric Wolfson said at the time of the conviction that each attempted second-degree murder charge carries a minimum sentence of at least 20 years. There's also a 15-year sentence possible on the conviction for shooting at the teenager's vehicle, Wolfson said.

Well, at least he is going to jail.

Oh yeah. I remember this.

Good, well, good that he's going to jail for a while at least.

Good.

Never mind. Not wasting my points on threadomancy. Thought this just happened.

The verdict is new, but the event is a couple years old.