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 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Arun wrote: Tell me IG players arent getting shafted right now.

How is this different than any other codex that's come out recently that wasn't overpowered?

Tyranid got a new codex that wasn't OP, which means that tyranid players got shafted, and CSM and DA got new codices that weren't overpowered, and they got shafted. It's like people want a well-balanced game so long as their own codex gets stronger every time...

I agree that there is still way too much whining about those codexes.
But now imagine a CSM codex without any named characters, no demon engines, no new toys except an option that lets termies carry shotguns, and any mention of Slaanesh or any units/legion that serves her/m are not present.

THATS what's pissing me off about this book. I could write this myself by taking my old codex and ripping out every other unit, then arbitrarily changing values.

The only problem I have with the new codex is the removal of the extra artillery tanks and the named characters. I recently bought the Armageddon pattern Medusa from Forgeworld and I'm kind of upset I'll never get to use it. I liked the characters because they added a kind of specialty to your force. I hope there are at least some doctrines or something that will allow outflanking infantry platoons or send in the next wave. That aside, I'm very excited for the new orders!

I didn't use any of the models which got removed and I suspect that most IG players didn't either. It sucks for the people who did use them, but I'm fairly sure that they are a minority.

All the removed vehicles can be used with the old codex rules, because they have identical rules in Imperial Armour. I really don't think that many people are going to insist that you buy a FW book to get exact duplicates of rules you already have. Tournament players and people playing in GW stores might have some issues, I guess.

The vendetta price hike was entirely expected and mostly fair. It might have gone a little too far, but only a little. So long as prices are within 10% of what I think is balanced, I don't see much reason to complain.

Tanks generally got better, conscripts got much better, veterans (except chimera-riding SW spam vets) got a bit better, infantry squads seem to be the same but got a 'stealth buff' from better orders, more psykers and priests. Scions are a little better than Stormtroopers, although still underwhelming. Psyker squads aren't great, but a basic block of five is an OK method of getting a divination roll.

Chimeras got a price hike, but it's somewhat compensated for by cheaper vehicle upgrades. Lasgun ports instead of fire points is a mixed bag, but mostly bad.

Characters got a lot better, especially priests. Divination psykers buffing tank squadrons or seems like it will be the new power-build. Infantry become more support units, protecting the psykers and techpriests and moving up to claim objectives after they have been cleared by tanks.

I don't need to buy many more models for my army; the main changes are that characters now play a more important role, but I already had a bunch of psykers for my PBS who can become Primaris Psykers. I think that I will need to acquire some tech-priests, but probably not GW models.

The GW kits which I might actually buy are the Bullgryns and the Scions and the latter only really appeal because of the quality of the sculpts. They are more likely to be conversion-fodder or counts-as-something-else than fielded as scions.

 FantomAntichrist wrote:
The only problem I have with the new codex is the removal of the extra artillery tanks and the named characters. I recently bought the Armageddon pattern Medusa from Forgeworld and I'm kind of upset I'll never get to use it.

Use the IA1 rules, and punch your opponent in the face and tell them to stop being TFG if they whine and cry about how FW rules aren't "real 40k". Taking them out of the codex was an incredibly stupid decision, but the only people who will refuse to play against them are the TFGs that you don't want to have anything to do with anyway.

 Peregrine wrote:

 FantomAntichrist wrote:
The only problem I have with the new codex is the removal of the extra artillery tanks and the named characters. I recently bought the Armageddon pattern Medusa from Forgeworld and I'm kind of upset I'll never get to use it.

Use the IA1 rules, and punch your opponent in the face and tell them to stop being TFG if they whine and cry about how FW rules aren't "real 40k". Taking them out of the codex was an incredibly stupid decision, but the only people who will refuse to play against them are the TFGs that you don't want to have anything to do with anyway.

Yeah and If I did that , the next closest place to play would be 300km+ away. in another country.


the buffs don't seem to be that good. platoons are the same as they were , vets got worse , we technicly got divination casters , but with INQ can cast the same divination and have a higher Ld and cost less and can have nice upgrades like servo skulls or psycannons.

Tanks got cheaper , or some did , but the points drop doesn't cover the price hike on chimeras and vendettas , so stuff will have to be droped from lists. Chimeras without the fire points with higher cost are sad transports and unlike other armies we can't just run something else. We don't have jetbikes and our flying transport went up in cost too.


If this was the first book in 6th ed , I would probably find it ok . But after demons , tau and eldar setting up the bar for normal codex , this just isn't enough.
DLC to get basic utility unit like marbo , is going to hurt people who can't buy them .

The only thing I am really caring about at this point are a few things:

-Doctrines .
-Plastic Steel Legion

If these do not happen I will not ever be running IG out of this book as they are the only thing I am looking for at the moment for an army, Codex Militarium Tempestus covered the Deep Striking Elite Infantry for me in regards to my second 2000pt. installation for my Elysians, but I this new book can do it better I will utilize this.

Any change or return of lumbering behemoth or are ordnance russes still terrible?

Also, Gets Hot! on the executioner is painful, more likely to kill itself. Losing the colossus is the worst though, that unit was incredibly useful in 6th for blasting cover hugging armies.

Losing options of any kind is bad, the special characters might not have been everyone's cup of tea but they were there for you to use, and had models that now are useless.

Not all doom and gloom though, I like tank commanders, like the scions and the taurox and wyvern are kinda cool.

... Because this is what the other side looks like. Are you really saying that CSM is an overpowered codex?

A codex can't both be overpowered and underpowered at the same time.

Or should we have a whine-off to see who's right?

That's..not what he's saying.

He's saying that the things most likely to be useful are those two units, thus somewhat mono-build.

Makumba wrote:
...we technicly got divination casters , but with INQ can cast the same divination and have a higher Ld and cost less and can have nice upgrades like servo skulls or psycannons.

75 points for a ML 2 Primaris Psyker is more points-efficient than 55 points for a ML 1 Inquisitor, plus you are no longer limited to two rolls on the divination table.

 chromedog wrote:
Marines won't really miss the whirlwind - no-one uses them anyway.

So, they removed the models they weren't ever going to upgrade and/or produce (they made Griffons in 2nd ed and they stuck around until 3rd ed).

I'm kinda glad I stopped building my guard army last edition.

as a whirlwind owner and user I am offended

 Peregrine wrote:

 FantomAntichrist wrote:
The only problem I have with the new codex is the removal of the extra artillery tanks and the named characters. I recently bought the Armageddon pattern Medusa from Forgeworld and I'm kind of upset I'll never get to use it.

Use the IA1 rules, and punch your opponent in the face and tell them to stop being TFG if they whine and cry about how FW rules aren't "real 40k". Taking them out of the codex was an incredibly stupid decision, but the only people who will refuse to play against them are the TFGs that you don't want to have anything to do with anyway.

If you punch someone in the face and/or jump up and down complaining about how the other kids won't let you use your toys, you are TFG. Also, if you use the term TFG, you might just be TFG... oh dammit.

moved the updated whine list to my 1st post

Can someone give me a run-down of the new warlord traits and orders, and who gets access to which orders?

I found far more buffs in this dex then nerfs....

besides, if nids get 3 data slates, how much you wanna bet guard get at LEAST that?

this new content model makes it really EASY for GW to add in catachans/tallarn/valhalla/ect through data slates over time. It also makes it profitable for them to do it, so I really do see them coming out with a few soon, and more as years go by.

definate buy o this codex... so much more to play with now then "spam max # of chimeras behind aegis, dettas and manticore)


now we can do massive troop waves, and have them be really effective with orders and buff characters, we can do mech guard with all tanks, and mech inf is still good, its just not top dog any more.


and as I ahve been saying for a long time, I knew IG would be the solution to WS spam, and it definately is. meta is going to be changed a lot in the next month or two

 Sir Arun wrote:
18) No Solar Macharius, Gaunt or Schaeffer. We waited 5 years and still they aren't bothered to write them in. Imma slap anyone who brings up the word dataslate as retaliation.

Oh, please. I'm not going to bring up the word "dataslate", because it will never happen. The Cypher miniature is old but has a pass, the Macharius miniature is just beyond redemption. I seriously doubt anyone would shell out 8€ to field a mediocre character who looks like the Michelin mascot in drag, as imagined by the costume design team of a cheapo 1970s italian space opera

One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

I foresee a lot of abuses if Psykers can just be put in any squad or a Battle Brother squad from an allied codex. Especially with Imperial Knights.

Having read through the full Tempestus book (not yet the full Astra Militarum book), I have to say, it's probably the worst instance of GW fluff writing I've ever encountered. I think it might actually be worse than the Space Wolves.

Between all the really bad Faux-Latin hamfisted in at every opportunity reading like a Harry Potter fanfic, and the over the top attempts to make the book Grimdark that just come off as the writing equivalent of torture-porn movies, the book is not only actually difficult to actually read (on a purely mechanical level), but not entertaining at all.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having read through the full Tempestus book (not yet the full Astra Militarum book), I have to say, it's probably the worst instance of GW fluff writing I've ever encountered. I think it might actually be worse than the Space Wolves.

Between all the really bad Faux-Latin hamfisted in at every opportunity reading like a Harry Potter fanfic, and the over the top attempts to make the book Grimdark that just come off as the writing equivalent of torture-porn movies, the book is not only actually difficult to actually read (on a purely mechanical level), but not entertaining at all.

I hate to break it to you, but the setting has always been full of fake Latin mixed with real Latin all over the place. And Grimdark in 40k as always been pretty darn cartoony (go read an old Guard codex about how many die in battle. Heck a Guardsman has a life expectancy of 15 minutes once the fighting starts).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
I foresee a lot of abuses if Psykers can just be put in any squad or a Battle Brother squad from an allied codex. Especially with Imperial Knights.

The Psykers were already pretty abusable before this book. But they're VERY squishy and don't come with a high mastery level so most people prefer better options. Plus their leadership isn't that great when compared to options like Eldrad.

I was thinking more in lines what a max unit of Centurions with a Psyker casting prescience on them a Priest to make it so they reroll wounds would do. That's not even really that much additional points.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

Several points in the OP are irrelevant based on your review. Ogryns are still in a rough spot, though the Bullgryns might be ok for bubblewrap around tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
I was thinking more in lines what a max unit of Centurions with a Psyker casting prescience on them a Priest to make it so they reroll wounds would do. That's not even really that much additional points.

Though the optimal weapons for Centurions already allow re-rolls to wound. Really its for prescience or misfortune.

Hollismason wrote:I was thinking more in lines what a max unit of Centurions with a Psyker casting prescience on them a Priest to make it so they reroll wounds would do. That's not even really that much additional points.

Fair enough.

ace101 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

Several points in the OP are irrelevant based on your review. Ogryns are still in a rough spot, though the Bullgryns might be ok for bubblewrap around tanks.

Tanks with Camo Nets.

The Psyker Battle Squads get access to Biomancy, how does that work with Psychic Brotherhood, I'm not familiar with Psyhics.

Hollismason wrote:
The Psyker Battle Squads get access to Biomancy, how does that work with Psychic Brotherhood, I'm not familiar with Psyhics.

SInce the whole unit counts as being the psyker, the powers affecting the psyker are resolved over the entire unit, IIR-Brotherhood of Psykers-C. Haven't used BoP much so I will double check


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hollismason wrote:I was thinking more in lines what a max unit of Centurions with a Psyker casting prescience on them a Priest to make it so they reroll wounds would do. That's not even really that much additional points.

Fair enough.

ace101 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

Several points in the OP are irrelevant based on your review. Ogryns are still in a rough spot, though the Bullgryns might be ok for bubblewrap around tanks.

Tanks with Camo Nets.

And the Deathstrike might not be too bad after all, a 4+ isn't that hard, especially with aforementioned camo-netting w/ Bullgryns providing cover.

 ace101 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
The Psyker Battle Squads get access to Biomancy, how does that work with Psychic Brotherhood, I'm not familiar with Psyhics.

SInce the whole unit counts as being the psyker, the powers affecting the psyker are resolved over the entire unit, IIR-Brotherhood of Psykers-C. Haven't used BoP much so I will double check


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hollismason wrote:I was thinking more in lines what a max unit of Centurions with a Psyker casting prescience on them a Priest to make it so they reroll wounds would do. That's not even really that much additional points.

Fair enough.

ace101 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

Several points in the OP are irrelevant based on your review. Ogryns are still in a rough spot, though the Bullgryns might be ok for bubblewrap around tanks.

Tanks with Camo Nets.

And the Deathstrike might not be too bad after all, a 4+ isn't that hard, especially with aforementioned camo-netting w/ Bullgryns providing cover.

Add an Aegis and it gets a 2+ cover save.

Too bad Eldar and Tau mock cover saves, eh?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having read through the full Tempestus book (not yet the full Astra Militarum book), I have to say, it's probably the worst instance of GW fluff writing I've ever encountered. I think it might actually be worse than the Space Wolves.

Between all the really bad Faux-Latin hamfisted in at every opportunity reading like a Harry Potter fanfic, and the over the top attempts to make the book Grimdark that just come off as the writing equivalent of torture-porn movies, the book is not only actually difficult to actually read (on a purely mechanical level), but not entertaining at all.

I hate to break it to you, but the setting has always been full of fake Latin mixed with real Latin all over the place. And Grimdark in 40k as always been pretty darn cartoony (go read an old Guard codex about how many die in battle. Heck a Guardsman has a life expectancy of 15 minutes once the fighting starts).

Right, the faux-latin has always been in there, but not spammed to the extent it is in this book. Just about every noun is replaced with Gibberish-Latin. It was affected by the concept described here in the extreme. And again, yes, 40k has often been dark-cartoony, and I think I'm one to normally appreciate most of that. But this was just awful. The actual writing itself was terrible and the stories were just really poorly delivered.

It felt like it was trying way too hard to be something that it couldn't quite attain, written by someone who doesn't have any writing skill.

Also, most of it could have been straight copy-pasted out of a Marine book, if you just left out the part about the Scions being part of the IG, then one would probably assume they were talking about an SM chapter much of the time.

Does it make you miss Matt Ward's fluff Vakathi?

Now they only count as a level 1 correct ? Or do they gain successive levels by having larger squads?

Also, if that's true that's really interesting because they could cast Iron Arm etc.. on themselves.

That could be a interesting Squad.

Also Correct me if I am wrong but Divination , Telekinesis , and Biomancy can be used on vehicles?

Hollismason wrote:
Now they only count as a level 1 correct ? Or do they gain successive levels by having larger squads?

Just ML1.

Hollismason wrote:
Also Correct me if I am wrong but Divination , Telekinesis , and Biomancy can be used on vehicles?

Depends on the power.

Ah so not as initially useful as I'd thought but still Imperial Knights out of everything gained a pretty huge boost depending on what powers you can get or give them.