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 Jihadin wrote:

I'm not bashing Palin just we are two different military with two different atmosphere of conduct

Certainly came across as bashing, as if any other country wasn't as disciplined as the US military. Which I'm sure isn't what you meant, right?

 Jihadin wrote:
I am a NCO and conducted myself as such.

As do I. Treating private soldiers as children however serves no one, afterall who will be the next generation of NCOs?

Your not assuming I treating my troops as children Your probably like me. Rules are simple. Don't fukk up as you are now at a higher level of "Adultness". We guide, we mentor, we advise, we shape, we form, and we mold our troops like the way we were brought up. We are not like our counterparts in the civilian world. We are not the same as we were before we joined. We are not the same as our former friends as we progress in age. I expect more out of my Privates, Private First Class, and Specialists then I would from their civilian counterparts. When my lower enlistee think State and Federal Law can protect him/her then they are in a world of hurt.

Best case. State Law say legal age of consent is 16. UCMJ says otherwise yet they think State Law protects them from their actions.One stays in the realm of UCMJ then they will go far. They take it upon themselves to go outside UCMJ then they're courting negative actions.

Its not all on the lower enlisted though. Their NCO sets the example by action and behavior. If their NCO let his/her troops call them "Sarge", be their buddy, go out drinking on a daily basis, to name a few then the NCO in question is not effective as a leader. That individual plays favorites and court discord within his/her "backyard" For if his/her favorite screws up and another NCO comes down on him/her then that "favorite" would expect his/her "Sarge" to take care of them.

Manning, as a PFC, as a Intelligence Specialist. Knew his limits. He knew from verbal and written forms what would happen if he broke from establish procedure and operate beyond his scope of duty. He had plenty of avenues to "vent" or inform higher authorities. He threw a "tantrum", did a "revenge" action against his NCO who more likely went in "Fallen Angel" mode, dumped a crapload of intelligence on Assuage thereby putting us at more danger then we needed to be in. He falls under UCMJ but yet people keep forgetting that and think he falls under Federal Laws. People think he has the same rights as someone not in the military but they do not due to UCMJ and SOP.

Snowden has more rights and avenues of legal defense for him. Manning does not due to UCMJ Snowden has a gray area he can play for defense Manning has black and white documentation against him with his signature on them.

Edit

Bergdahl more likely get hit with UCMJ but suspended. That idiot NCO "ghost" his way off FoB to get laid which in turn was a trap. He violated so many orders its not even funny. What's damning for him is four of his soldiers warn him not to do it being it was to good to be true but I am glad I was wrong for I seriously thought they had killed him

 Jihadin wrote:
Your not assuming I treating my troops as children

No, however:

 Palindrome wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Generally what an E-3 thinks is right, is anything but. That's just my 12 years of experience speaking.

I bet your juniors just love you.

Djones's attitude doesn't inspire me with confidence.

E3 is one of the lowest ranks in the military, yes? Is it somehow insulting to think the most junior of armed forces might not yet know a lot about soldiering, sailoring, or mar... marining? marinating? No, that's not right.

 Jihadin wrote:

Snowden has more rights and avenues of legal defense for him. Manning does not due to UCMJ Snowden has a gray area he can play for defense Manning has black and white documentation against him with his signature on them.

The thing is that, even if he were to go on trial and subpoena the NSA for documents, they've already shown that they're willing to lie about and hide their records. No meaning to a 'trial' if the prosecution isn't going to play fair.

 Palindrome wrote:
Djones's attitude doesn't inspire me with confidence.

Neither should E-3s.

And we've come full circle.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Your not assuming I treating my troops as children

No, however:

 Palindrome wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Generally what an E-3 thinks is right, is anything but. That's just my 12 years of experience speaking.

I bet your juniors just love you.

Djones's attitude doesn't inspire me with confidence.

You know nothing about my attitude, but if you think "kids" can be trusted to know and do what is right all of the time, then there is only one fool here, and it ain't me. I speak from my own experience as an NCO, and as a one time member of the junior enlisted corps. And if I was wrong on the matter, then the outburst of Mannings, giving away the secret documents would have been an isolated event, instead of the end of a long string of frak ups that the kid had throughout his short career.

I will say that the biggest failure of the whole affair was his chain of command, in allowing Manning to deploy in the first place, and work in a sensitive environment unsupervised, like they did.

 Jihadin wrote:
I back his twelve with my 23 years. Lower Enlisted still have that inner civilian glow to them till about their first major Article 15, deployment, and/or couple years under their belt. Or a combination two of three.

My learning experience was two Article 15's

As the former "Don" of my local E-4 Mafia, I agree with Jihadin and djones520.... An e-4 with less than 3 years is just as bad as a PFC. And from the sounds of things, he didn't get enough attention from his Drill Sergeants in basic.

 djones520 wrote:

You know nothing about my attitude, but if you think "kids" can be trusted to know and do what is right all of the time, then there is only one fool here, and it ain't me.

If you think that private soldiers are "generally wrong" then I can infer quite a lot about your attitude. They need guidance and oversight of course but they can generally be trusted to carry out tasks and they generally do well when allowed some initiative.

I bet you shout a lot.

 Palindrome wrote:
I bet you shout a lot.

Only at the Lieutenants

 Palindrome wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

You know nothing about my attitude, but if you think "kids" can be trusted to know and do what is right all of the time, then there is only one fool here, and it ain't me.

If you think that private soldiers are "generally wrong" then I can infer quite a lot about your attitude. They need guidance and oversight of course but they can generally be trusted to carry out tasks and they generally do well when allowed some initiative.

I bet you shout a lot.

Not at all. Only time I've ever found myself shouting was in movement under fire training.

 djones520 wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

You know nothing about my attitude, but if you think "kids" can be trusted to know and do what is right all of the time, then there is only one fool here, and it ain't me.

If you think that private soldiers are "generally wrong" then I can infer quite a lot about your attitude. They need guidance and oversight of course but they can generally be trusted to carry out tasks and they generally do well when allowed some initiative.

I bet you shout a lot.

Not at all. Only time I've ever found myself shouting was in movement under fire training.

Is that really the best time to be going to the bathroom? And why were you shouting? What did you eat for dinner?!

 Ahtman wrote:

Is that really the best time to be going to the bathroom? And why were you shouting? What did you eat for dinner?!

Have you ever had an MRE... Much less been forced to eat 2 a day for 3 weeks straight??

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

Is that really the best time to be going to the bathroom? And why were you shouting? What did you eat for dinner?!

Have you ever had an MRE... Much less been forced to eat 2 a day for 3 weeks straight??

I have, so it all sort of makes sense now.

We used to call them Meals Rejected by Ethiopia.

I rather liked the Beef Teriyaki.

Relapse wrote:
We used to call them Meals Rejected by Ethiopia.

So that's why my uncle swears by MREs...

If you had issues going poo... just eat one of them bad boys.

Stop assuming Palin. I shout when I need to shout. Mainly cadence calling Your not calling my leadership into question are you?

Besides as a leader you should know. If one shouting all the time then the perception of of that individual leadership style is authoritarian and/or "fear" leadership style.


Warning If your use to eating MRE's for awhile. Do not eat fast food first thing back

 Jihadin wrote:
We comparing Brit to US lower enlisted? Its two different animals same as our leadership style. Your style is not mine and not DJ but DJ style is not mine nor yours nor my style either of yours. We develope our leadership style from former NCO's appointed over us. First though. I am not a "Friend", a "buddy", a "Sarge", go by first names, nor share beers with lower enlisted. I am a NCO and conducted myself as such. Either meet or exceed my standards, be on time, at the right place and in the right uniform. Duty. Discipline. Respect. Knowledge. This is the US Military not "insert another country" military (mainly those that allow beer)

Edit

I'm not bashing Palin just we are two different military with two different atmosphere of conduct

LOL, clearly you haven't spent a lot of time around the USAF ;P

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
We comparing Brit to US lower enlisted? Its two different animals same as our leadership style. Your style is not mine and not DJ but DJ style is not mine nor yours nor my style either of yours. We develope our leadership style from former NCO's appointed over us. First though. I am not a "Friend", a "buddy", a "Sarge", go by first names, nor share beers with lower enlisted. I am a NCO and conducted myself as such. Either meet or exceed my standards, be on time, at the right place and in the right uniform. Duty. Discipline. Respect. Knowledge. This is the US Military not "insert another country" military (mainly those that allow beer)

Edit

I'm not bashing Palin just we are two different military with two different atmosphere of conduct

LOL, clearly you haven't spent a lot of time around the USAF ;P

Yep, because we were talking about the military

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

Is that really the best time to be going to the bathroom? And why were you shouting? What did you eat for dinner?!

Have you ever had an MRE... Much less been forced to eat 2 a day for 3 weeks straight??

I bought a bunch of MRE's for my Hurricane Prep Kit when I lived in Galveston County, TX. They taste like crap, yo.

I liked the giant cracker with the peanut butter, though. I could not eat it without lots of water. Isn't that a 1-minute challenge?

Key is hot sauce. Eating it real fast and not pausing. Not to breath deeply either

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
We comparing Brit to US lower enlisted? Its two different animals same as our leadership style. Your style is not mine and not DJ but DJ style is not mine nor yours nor my style either of yours. We develope our leadership style from former NCO's appointed over us. First though. I am not a "Friend", a "buddy", a "Sarge", go by first names, nor share beers with lower enlisted. I am a NCO and conducted myself as such. Either meet or exceed my standards, be on time, at the right place and in the right uniform. Duty. Discipline. Respect. Knowledge. This is the US Military not "insert another country" military (mainly those that allow beer)

Edit

I'm not bashing Palin just we are two different military with two different atmosphere of conduct

LOL, clearly you haven't spent a lot of time around the USAF ;P

Yep, because we were talking about the military

Well played worthy adversary, well played...

 Ouze wrote:
E3 is one of the lowest ranks in the military, yes? Is it somehow insulting to think the most junior of armed forces might not yet know a lot about soldiering, sailoring, or mar... marining? marinating? No, that's not right.

I'd say in every branch other than the USMC this would be a fairly accurate assumption as it is entirely possible for someone to achieve E3 prior to even reaching their first unit. For the USMC it is entirely possible for a skilled and disciplined Marine in a Combat Arms MOS to spend his entire 4 year enlistment as an E3 due to extremely high cutting scores for certain MOSs. On the other hand, recruits come from all walks of life and ages. You could have an E3 in his/her mid 20's that will be considerably more worldly and together than one who is 18/19. Also, some service members will switch branches and if one goes from any branch to the Marines they start over at E1. Generally speaking though an E3 will not be very knowledgeable, but I get the impression that some NCOs abuse their positions of authority and think too highly of themselves.

but I get the impression that some NCOs abuse their positions of authority and think too highly of themselves.

We have what's called NCOer's. Get negatives in a roll and your done for. Get a General letter of Reprimand your done for. Over time the weak NCO's are weeded out from the mainstream and shuffle into a position that has little impact on soldiers in effect your "Fallen from Grace" and need to go to another unit entirely and do over. My last two NCOer's I had negative bullets and "Needs to Improve" box selected on Physical Fitness portion. I also was recovering from shoulder injuries sustain from Afghanistan.

 daedalus wrote:
Consider that anywhere pleasant would have just immediately returned him, after probably smacking him around a bit themselves for pointing out the man behind the curtain.

What's so unpleasant about Russia ?

Maybe he's found there the kind of things you can't have in the US anymore : good booze, fit girls...

Litcheur wrote:
Maybe he's found there the kind of things you can't have in the US anymore : good booze, fit girls...

You sure about that?

 Ouze wrote:

Litcheur wrote:
Maybe he's found there the kind of things you can't have in the US anymore : good booze, fit girls...

You sure about that?

Hell, if your looking for fit girls, move to Tennessee. I don't give a damn what the statistics say, I've seen a very noticed increase in good looking, fit, women here compared to Illinois.

Weirdly, I am visiting Tennessee in a few weeks.