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Except that paragrh doesn't say "if you get a re-roll from high BS". It explicitly calls it a re-roll.

And yes, since the weapon doesn't roll To Hit there's another mechanic to see if you explode - there'd have to be or you wouldn't explode.

And FYI, Prescience doesn't give you the ability to re-roll, it gives you the ability to re-roll failed To Hit rolls.

So you don't gain the ability to re-roll until you fail a To Hit roll. So per the rules for Prescience you have to fail the To Hit roll to have the ability to re-roll.

rigeld2 wrote:
Except that paragrh doesn't say "if you get a re-roll from high BS". It explicitly calls it a re-roll.

And yes, since the weapon doesn't roll To Hit there's another mechanic to see if you explode - there'd have to be or you wouldn't explode.

And FYI, Prescience doesn't give you the ability to re-roll, it gives you the ability to re-roll failed To Hit rolls.

So you don't gain the ability to re-roll until you fail a To Hit roll. So per the rules for Prescience you have to fail the To Hit roll to have the ability to re-roll.

because the first part of the answer deals with weapons that roll to hit, a weapon with BS 6+ that rolls to hit will have a re-roll when it fails to hit.

The second part of the paragraph deals with weapons that do not roll to hit, and is separate from the first part.

Blasts fall into one of the two above categories, and that is the one that does not roll to hit.

blaktoof wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Except that paragrh doesn't say "if you get a re-roll from high BS". It explicitly calls it a re-roll.

And yes, since the weapon doesn't roll To Hit there's another mechanic to see if you explode - there'd have to be or you wouldn't explode.

And FYI, Prescience doesn't give you the ability to re-roll, it gives you the ability to re-roll failed To Hit rolls.

So you don't gain the ability to re-roll until you fail a To Hit roll. So per the rules for Prescience you have to fail the To Hit roll to have the ability to re-roll.

because the first part of the answer deals with weapons that roll to hit, a weapon with BS 6+ that rolls to hit will have a re-roll when it fails to hit.

The second part of the paragraph deals with weapons that do not roll to hit, and is separate from the first part.

Blasts fall into one of the two above categories, and that is the one that does not roll to hit.

BS6+ is listed, RAW, as a re-roll to hit. Agreed? Not "if you get a re-roll to hit from rolling a 1..." Or anything like that.

Its listed as a re-roll to hit in regards to weapons that get to roll to hit for gets hot.

Because they will get the re-roll when they roll to hit.

it is not listed as a re-roll to hit for weapons that do not roll to hit.

because they have to roll to hit to get the re-roll, which they cannot do, just as they cannot roll a 1 to hit for Preferred enemy.

That's not what the rule says at all. Perhaps you should read it? Here, I'll quote it again.


This means that, by definition, BS6+ is as much a reroll as Twin Linked is. Agreed?

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not what the rule says at all. Perhaps you should read it? Here, I'll quote it again.

Spoiler:

“If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

This means that, by definition, BS6+ is as much a reroll as Twin Linked is. Agreed?

Why do you keep quoting get's hot?

In the case of get's hot, the model obviously rolled a 1.

What does BS6 say happens when you roll a 1?
The answer clearly shows why your argument fails.

Why does BS6 say you gain a reroll when you roll a 1, yet you claim it always has a reroll? How do you gain something if you already have it?

but yes the reroll gained after rolling a 1 would be the same as the reroll you get from TL, and that is how it works for get's hot.

wow, that's a long thread. admittedly i didn't read every entry.

with blast, you do roll to hit. the rule book states the scatter dice has a "Hit!" symbol. therefore any other result would be "not a hit" symbol. I like to call these "misses". if you do not "Hit!" then you miss and apply the 2d6" in the direction arrow.

if you have a blanket re-roll to hit (which would include attacks made on a "hit or miss" basis) you can re-roll a "miss" result. it's impossible to roll a 1 on the scatter dice which only has "hit" and "miss" options. so if you can only re-roll 1s, tough titties.

it's a blanket rule only situation.

Evil Party Girl wrote:
with blast, you do roll to hit. the rule book states the scatter dice has a "Hit!" symbol. therefore any other result would be "not a hit" symbol. I like to call these "misses". if you do not "Hit!" then you miss and apply the 2d6" in the direction arrow.

That is HIWPY because Twin-Linked explains it that way too.

We are currently discussing RaW where this would not apply =)

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not what the rule says at all. Perhaps you should read it? Here, I'll quote it again.

Spoiler:

“If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

This means that, by definition, BS6+ is as much a reroll as Twin Linked is. Agreed?

For a weapon that has rolled To Hit, Agreed.

For blasts, only the second line you forgot to quote applies. The above is false.

Why are you trying to discuss PE(Orks) when we are talking about rules for Eldar?

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not what the rule says at all. Perhaps you should read it? Here, I'll quote it again.

Spoiler:

“If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

This means that, by definition, BS6+ is as much a reroll as Twin Linked is. Agreed?

For a weapon that has rolled To Hit, Agreed.

Sorry, I don't see that caveat in the rule I quoted. Would you underline it for me?

For blasts, only the second line you forgot to quote applies. The above is false.

For Gets Hot, sure that's the only thing that applies.

Why are you trying to discuss PE(Orks) when we are talking about rules for Eldar?

I'm confused - where did anyone bring up Eldar?

Here's the RaW:

Gets Hot and Re-rolls
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

Which refers to this:

Gets Hot and Weapons that do not roll To Hit
Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing.

You cannot selectively quote a small part of a rule to suit your needs of an argument.

When you roll To Hit with BS10, and have rolled a 1, do you have "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit"?
The answer is yes.
Why have i already rolled a 1? because we are in the Gets Hot Special rule, so things like "When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal." are implied. As is the fact that you are rolling To Hit, and that you have rolled a 1.

When you are:
-rolling To Hit
-have rolled a 1
-have the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit

Then: "a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1."

Can you select the 3rd point above and call it RaW for the rest of the book? If you believe so, feel free to re-roll your Scatters with BS6.
I'll go and find another Rule to suit my needs, in the same way:

When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.

Oh look, all of my reserves can roll a D6 and arrive in different places. Or do you think both cases need context? I definitely do!

 BlackTalos wrote:
Here's the RaW:

Gets Hot and Re-rolls
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

Which refers to this:

Gets Hot and Weapons that do not roll To Hit
Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing.

I quoted the relevant part of the rule - the one that calls Bs6+ a re-roll To Hit. Do you agree that the rule does that and doesn't include a caveat?

You cannot selectively quote a small part of a rule to suit your needs of an argument.

Good point. You should also direct that at blaktoof as he did something similar earlier.

When you roll To Hit with BS10, and have rolled a 1, do you have "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit"?

The underlined is not part of the rule I've quoted. At all. You're inserting it. Unless you're proposing that Twin Linked also must roll To Hit before it has a re-roll?

Can you select the 3rd point above and call it RaW for the rest of the book? If you believe so, feel free to re-roll your Scatters with BS6.
I'll go and find another Rule to suit my needs, in the same way:

When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.

Oh look, all of my reserves can roll a D6 and arrive in different places. Or do you think both cases need context? I definitely do!

Do you agree that the rule presents Twin Linked and BS6+ as equal re-rolls?

Your example is poor because it says "this unit". What unit? I'm sure you could elaborate on that.

rigeld2 wrote:

You cannot selectively quote a small part of a rule to suit your needs of an argument.

Good point. You should also direct that at blaktoof as he did something similar earlier.

My current intent is only to make sure it is understood that BS6+ is not "an ability to reroll" like PE is, and that comparing the 2 is comparing Apples and Pears. Different things, even if they share colour (sometimes).

Quality of re-rolls and how "Blast & Re-Rolls" works is in the "unresolved" category for me, and not being discussed by me.
Maybe we can conclude the above and get back to that point?

rigeld2 wrote:

When you roll To Hit with BS10, and have rolled a 1, do you have "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit"?

The underlined is not part of the rule I've quoted. At all. You're inserting it. Unless you're proposing that Twin Linked also must roll To Hit before it has a re-roll?

No, it's not, because you're selectively quoting Gets Hot.
If you want to discuss what Gets Hot can bring to this debate by RaW ("(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"), then the whole rule is relevant:
"has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" compared to "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)" is only during the Gets Hot "situation"

rigeld2 wrote:

Can you select the 3rd point above and call it RaW for the rest of the book? If you believe so, feel free to re-roll your Scatters with BS6.
I'll go and find another Rule to suit my needs, in the same way:

When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.

Oh look, all of my reserves can roll a D6 and arrive in different places. Or do you think both cases need context? I definitely do!

Do you agree that the rule presents Twin Linked and BS6+ as equal re-rolls?

Your example is poor because it says "this unit". What unit? I'm sure you could elaborate on that.

Just as i'm sure you could elaborate on the "if the To Hit re-roll is also" and what "Also" is referring to.

Because i hope you cannot deny that the phrase, Rule and RaW we are talking about is all of this:
"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (Details)" (Rephrased)
I'm sure this grammatical sense above is identical? It might help you see "the whole rule", and how you can't be selective. Even if "Details" are important.

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

You cannot selectively quote a small part of a rule to suit your needs of an argument.

Good point. You should also direct that at blaktoof as he did something similar earlier.

My current intent is only to make sure it is understood that BS6+ is not "an ability to reroll" like PE is, and that comparing the 2 is comparing Apples and Pears. Different things, even if they share colour (sometimes).

Quality of re-rolls and how "Blast & Re-Rolls" works is in the "unresolved" category for me, and not being discussed by me.
Maybe we can conclude the above and get back to that point?

No, because the Gets Hot rule equates BS6+ to an ability to re-roll. Unless you're saying Twin Linked isn't an ability to re-roll?

rigeld2 wrote:

When you roll To Hit with BS10, and have rolled a 1, do you have "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit"?

The underlined is not part of the rule I've quoted. At all. You're inserting it. Unless you're proposing that Twin Linked also must roll To Hit before it has a re-roll?

No, it's not, because you're selectively quoting Gets Hot.
If you want to discuss what Gets Hot can bring to this debate by RaW ("(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"), then the whole rule is relevant:
"has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" compared to "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)" is only during the Gets Hot "situation"

Please elaborate. Does the rule say that BS6+ is an ability to re-roll, equivalent to Twin Linked? Or not?

Just as i'm sure you could elaborate on the "if the To Hit re-roll is also" and what "Also" is referring to.

Not relevant to the point I'm making. Whereas the "this unit" is absolutely relevant to the point you're trying to make.

Because i hope you cannot deny that the phrase, Rule and RaW we are talking about is all of this:
"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (Details)" (Rephrased)
I'm sure this grammatical sense above is identical? It might help you see "the whole rule", and how you can't be selective. Even if "Details" are important.

Since you left the important bit out (about what is considered an ability to re-roll To Hit) no, it's not identical.
Leaving it in, sure - it's identical. It's also not relevant. The rule specifically calls BS6+ a re-roll To Hit. Not "a re-roll To Hit because you already rolled a 1." or anything like that, which is what you're inserting into the rule.

rigeld2 wrote:
No, because the Gets Hot rule equates BS6+ to an ability to re-roll.

Please elaborate. Does the rule say that BS6+ is an ability to re-roll, equivalent to Twin Linked? Or not?

It does indeed! Within a very specific set of conditions given by Gets Hot.

rigeld2 wrote:

Just as i'm sure you could elaborate on the "if the To Hit re-roll is also" and what "Also" is referring to.

Not relevant to the point I'm making. Whereas the "this unit" is absolutely relevant to the point you're trying to make.

Since you left the important bit out (about what is considered an ability to re-roll To Hit) no, it's not identical.
Leaving it in, sure - it's identical. It's also not relevant. The rule specifically calls BS6+ a re-roll To Hit. Not "a re-roll To Hit because you already rolled a 1." or anything like that, which is what you're inserting into the rule.

They are both very relevant:
"(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)" is referring to a very specific thing:

"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 if a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"

That's the whole RaW, which is still connected to something:
"When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal. For each To Hit roll of 1, the firing model immediately suffers a Wound"
or
"Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing. For each roll of a 1, the weapon Gets Hot; that shot is not fired and the firing model immediately suffers a single Wound"

Orange Highlight is a forced connection

It is very simple.

You are claiming "A" is pure RaW.

"A" is only a statement "including" when "B".
"B" is only a situation when "also" "C".

You can keep trying to use "A" to prove your point, but we can see that unless it refers to "B" and "C", it is not a valid argument.

In the very same way that "X" is only a situation when "Y":
"X":When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.
"Y" is Outflank.

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No, because the Gets Hot rule equates BS6+ to an ability to re-roll.

Please elaborate. Does the rule say that BS6+ is an ability to re-roll, equivalent to Twin Linked? Or not?

It does indeed! Within a very specific set of conditions given by Gets Hot.

What conditions exist in the rule?

You are claiming "A" is pure RaW.

"A" is only a statement "including" when "B".
"B" is only a situation when "also" "C".

You can keep trying to use "A" to prove your point, but we can see that unless it refers to "B" and "C", it is not a valid argument.

Incorrect. A is a statement including when B, but not only when B. That's your assumption that isn't supported by actual rules aside from what you're inserting.

In the very same way that "X" is only a situation when "Y":
"X":When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.
"Y" is Outflank.

Not the same situation at all, as I've explained and you (apparently) ignored.


edit: I can finally see your misunderstanding. Using the orange highlight (which is difficult for me to read) I can see that you've linked "including" to "is also a 1". That's grammatically incorrect - it's linked to "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ".

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
It does indeed! Within a very specific set of conditions given by Gets Hot.

What conditions exist in the rule?

Everything in Gets Hot is after you have rolled a 1. Any quote you may take from the rule has the underlying assumption that a 1 was rolled, including Blasts.
Condition: You have rolled a 1. Either To Hit, or "Weapons that do not roll To Hit".

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. A is a statement including when B, but not only when B. That's your assumption that isn't supported by actual rules aside from what you're inserting.

But that is your mistake: "A" is a statement included in "B", it does not exists outside of "B" (or "C"), as you are trying to use it.

rigeld2 wrote:

In the very same way that "X" is only a situation when "Y":
"X":When this unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.
"Y" is Outflank.

Not the same situation at all, as I've explained and you (apparently) ignored.

How is it not the same? Because it says "this unit"? What unit?

It is the same, because the rule you quoted says "is also a 1". What is "also a 1"?

rigeld2 wrote:
edit: I can finally see your misunderstanding. Using the orange highlight (which is difficult for me to read) I can see that you've linked "including" to "is also a 1". That's grammatically incorrect - it's linked to "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ".

No, i'm not directly linking "including" to "is also a 1".

I'm linking "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" to "is also a 1".

It's not simply "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit". It's part of the Gets Hot setting.
Condition: You have rolled a 1. Either To Hit, or "Weapons that do not roll To Hit".

I mean it's easy to see, other do:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Why do you keep quoting get's hot?

In the case of get's hot, the model obviously rolled a 1.

What does BS6 say happens when you roll a 1?
The answer clearly shows why your argument fails.

Why does BS6 say you gain a reroll when you roll a 1, yet you claim it always has a reroll? How do you gain something if you already have it?

but yes the reroll gained after rolling a 1 would be the same as the reroll you get from TL, and that is how it works for get's hot.

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
It does indeed! Within a very specific set of conditions given by Gets Hot.

What conditions exist in the rule?

Everything in Gets Hot is after you have rolled a 1. Any quote you may take from the rule has the underlying assumption that a 1 was rolled, including Blasts.
Condition: You have rolled a 1. Either To Hit, or "Weapons that do not roll To Hit".

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. A is a statement including when B, but not only when B. That's your assumption that isn't supported by actual rules aside from what you're inserting.

But that is your mistake: "A" is a statement included in "B", it does not exists outside of "B" (or "C"), as you are trying to use it.

If that's the case, why did you not call out blaktoof?

blaktoof wrote:

If a model has a special rule that already confers it a re-roll To Hit (like a Master-crafted weapon, for example)

Which comes from the BS6+ section dealing with the re-roll. Meaning the shot has already missed.

I was in a discussion with blaktoof and you called me out, not him. If you're going to make assertions like this, at least be consistent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackTalos wrote:
No, i'm not directly linking "including" to "is also a 1".

I'm linking "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" to "is also a 1".

Your orange highlights say otherwise.

I mean it's easy to see, other do:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Why do you keep quoting get's hot?

In the case of get's hot, the model obviously rolled a 1.

What does BS6 say happens when you roll a 1?
The answer clearly shows why your argument fails.

Why does BS6 say you gain a reroll when you roll a 1, yet you claim it always has a reroll? How do you gain something if you already have it?

but yes the reroll gained after rolling a 1 would be the same as the reroll you get from TL, and that is how it works for get's hot.

rigeld2 wrote:
I was in a discussion with blaktoof and you called me out, not him. If you're going to make assertions like this, at least be consistent.

If you double check, you jumped onto a post where i called out Grendel:

 grendel083 wrote:
It considers BS6+ valid, and that is just as conditional as Prefered Enemy, but grants a more altered, lesser, re-roll. Both require a To Hit roll of 1 to gain any form of re-roll. The rules simply don't care that a 1 needs to be rolled, just that there is some form of re-roll to be considered valid.

I highlighted the part which, IMHO is completely wrong, unless you are referring to a specific model rolling for Gets Hot.
Which, in hindsight, was probably the case.

 BlackTalos wrote:
No, i'm not directly linking "including" to "is also a 1".

I'm linking "ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" to "is also a 1".

Your orange highlights say otherwise.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Orange Highlight is a forced connection

Thought it was clear. Again then, without colours:

Rule A: "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"
must refer to Rule B, because of "including". It is "included" withing Rule B.

Rule B:"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 if a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit."
must refer to Rule C, because of "is also a 1". You can't have "Is Also" before a prior condition "C"

Rule C: "When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal. For each To Hit roll of 1," (To Hit Weapons)
"Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing. For each roll of a 1," (Blast Weapons) <--- Current Thread subject.

rigeld2 wrote:

I mean it's easy to see, other do:

Quoting someone I have on ignore isn't helpful. Appealing to the masses isn't helpful. Coloring white isn't helpful.
It'd be helpful if you support your argument.

Sorry you hadn't seen the post, but the questions are relevant and pretty much the same as mine.
Apologies if colours don't help your understanding of things.
My argument is above.
Short version:
A) "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)" is not a general RaW statement. It only applies in the Gets Hot situation. You cannot use it in the "PE and Blasts" argument.

B) Blacktoof used the rule:"If a model has a special rule that already confers it a re-roll To Hit (like a Master-crafted weapon, for example), then that re-roll takes precedence and the chart above is not used."
From "Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better" situation.
I don't know if you can use it in the "PE and Blasts" argument. I'd probably go with "yes", but i have bias towards that side of the argument and did not really want to keep debating it, as rules haven't changed.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Rule A: "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"
must refer to Rule B, because of "including". It is "included" withing Rule B.

Rule B:"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 if a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit."
must refer to Rule C, because of "is also a 1". You can't have "Is Also" before a prior condition "C"

Rule C: "When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal. For each To Hit roll of 1," (To Hit Weapons)
"Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing. For each roll of a 1," (Blast Weapons) <--- Current Thread subject.

Rule B only consists of the underlined, not the entirety of what you quoted. We know that because Twin Linked has nothing to do with suffering wounds.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Rule A: "(including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule)"
must refer to Rule B, because of "including". It is "included" withing Rule B.

Rule B:"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 if a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit."
must refer to Rule C, because of "is also a 1". You can't have "Is Also" before a prior condition "C"

Rule C: "When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal. For each To Hit roll of 1," (To Hit Weapons)
"Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediately before firing. For each roll of a 1," (Blast Weapons) <--- Current Thread subject.

Rule B only consists of the underlined, not the entirety of what you quoted. We know that because Twin Linked has nothing to do with suffering wounds.

But that is exactly the mistake i'm trying to point out. Rule B is the whole thing, you cannot selectively use a small section to suit your needs for an argument.

Rule B is about re-rolling a Gets Hot result of 1. It calls out things that do so (TL and BS6+). But it is only ever about that Gets Hot result of a 1, not a blanket statement about the ability to re-roll anything...

Answer this question:

What includes BS6+ and Twin Linked?

 BlackTalos wrote:
Rule B:"A Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1 if a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit."

The underlined above is what you have to use if you want to Quote this Rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Answer this question:

What includes BS6+ and Twin Linked?

The ability to re-roll of a model that To Hit rolled a 1.
When rolling Gets Hot.

ok, to bring this back to its basics.

I would like a concise reasoning as to why the crowd that think that think PE doesn't allow the blast re-roll to state what the roll is.

as you are claiming that it is not a re-roll to hit.


from my understanding I do not see any reasoning to refute the following:

a re-roll is the act of re-rolling a dice.

preferred enemy allows the re-roll of 'to hit' and 'to wound' dice results of 1 (emphasise mine)

the blast, scatter-re-roll rule is looking for the ability to re-roll 'to hit' dice.

that is the only thing it cares about, can you re-roll to hit dice?

from what I can see, so long as the target unit is the enemy that you have PE for, you have the ability to re-roll your to hit dice which satisfies the critera for the effect.

the effect itself doesn't care that you would need a specific or to be more precise a more restrictive value in order to re-roll the dice, because the very function of any of the re-rolling effects are looking for a miss result regardless of the result on the dice, but they ALL share the common denominator of providing a re-roll of the 'TO HIT' dice.

I can't believe other threads have been locked for two pages of saying the same thing over and over, yet this one is still going.

None of you are ever changing anyone else's mind. Discuss w/opponent prior to game if you expect to have the reroll w/preferred enemy, or if going to a tournament, discuss with TO.

Well to break it down:

"Ability to re-roll its rolls to hit" is imho completely unconditional. Therefore every unit that has a certain ability which allows it to re-roll can make use of this rule.

That includes PE, TL, BS6+ and (imho) Hatred (which is also an ability to re-roll rolls to hit under certain circumstances that don't matter in this case).

With re-rolling scatter I believe it is more difficult because of the condition "and chooses to do so". This condition however is unfulfillable, because blast weapons never roll to hit in the first place...

Reading up on Pask,

RAW states, pg59 AM codex: When firing a battle cannon, vanquisher battle cannon,demolisher siege cannon, or eradicator nova cannon, Pask can re-roll To Hit rolls.

Pask's ability to re-roll scatter on these 4 Leman Russ variants, are not tied to his PE Warlord trait.

Just when this thread is finally dead a week, it gets dragged up from the grave

It was also concerning the Executioner, and Preffered Enemy in general.