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 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

Funny you should say that. Apparently the emigration rate from Eastern Europe has skyrocketed as well.

If that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, the country that inveted the word pogrom is flexing it's expansionist muscles again, right next door...

Your ignorance is astonishing.
The age of pogrom is long gone. It is not Russia Jews are afraid of, Jews are treated in Russia as well as they are in the West, if not better. There is many Jews in high government positions, Jewish businessmen and oligarchs, and in the east there is even an autonomous Jewish province where Jews enjoy special rights.
What the Jews are afraid of is fascist and far-right nationalist groups that are becoming more and more popular in many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania etc. (and admittely, they are becoming more popular in Russia too)
There is also economic reasons. After 1991, people hoped that economy would really improve. For the most part, this has not happened and people are disappointed because of it. Jews however can easily move to Israel to look for better fortunes there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

Yeah, and Russia also treats handicapped people well. Good one.

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

Relapse wrote:
I wonder how many "closet Jews" there are, out of fear of persecution.

I am not a closet Jew, and neither are my friend. It is just people cannot tell if someone on the street is a (non-practicing) Jew, unlike, say, an Arab, where they can guess.
I noticed a good way to tell that someone was Jewish when I was at the École Normale Supérieure: if someone tells a lot of antisemitic joke, he/she usually consider himself/herself Jewish . We got an example itt. People that just have Jewish origins but do not consider themselves Jewish, usually do not, though.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

Funny you should say that. Apparently the emigration rate from Eastern Europe has skyrocketed as well.

If that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, the country that inveted the word pogrom is flexing it's expansionist muscles again, right next door...

Your ignorance is astonishing.
The age of pogrom is long gone. It is not Russia Jews are afraid of, Jews are treated in Russia as well as they are in the West, if not better. There is many Jews in high government positions, Jewish businessmen and oligarchs, and in the east there is even an autonomous Jewish province where Jews enjoy special rights.
What the Jews are afraid of is fascist and far-right nationalist groups that are becoming more and more popular in many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania etc. (and admittely, they are becoming more popular in Russia too)
There is also economic reasons. After 1991, people hoped that economy would really improve. For the most part, this has not happened and people are disappointed because of it. Jews however can easily move to Israel to look for better fortunes there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

Yeah, and Russia also treats handicapped people well. Good one.

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

#whataboutery

 Happyjew wrote:
h), a child's religion is based on his mother. Of course it is also assumed that nobody marries outsdie the faith so every jewish boy marries a jewish girl (even if one of them is a convert).

The issue is two-fold, first according to Jewish belief, the Messiah will be a direct father-to-son descendent. Meaning, if, to get to Jesus you must go through the female lineage, then he cannot be the Messiah. The second is that when the Messiah does come, there are numerous events that are supposed to occur, none of which occurred with Jesus.

Both Joseph and Mary were direct descendent of David, so that pans out. Also every prophecy occurred with Jesus. But that is off-topic for this thread.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
h), a child's religion is based on his mother. Of course it is also assumed that nobody marries outsdie the faith so every jewish boy marries a jewish girl (even if one of them is a convert).

The issue is two-fold, first according to Jewish belief, the Messiah will be a direct father-to-son descendent. Meaning, if, to get to Jesus you must go through the female lineage, then he cannot be the Messiah. The second is that when the Messiah does come, there are numerous events that are supposed to occur, none of which occurred with Jesus.

Both Joseph and Mary were direct descendent of David, so that pans out. Also every prophecy occurred with Jesus. But that is off-topic for this thread.

Umm..no they didn't.

 Ustrello wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
h), a child's religion is based on his mother. Of course it is also assumed that nobody marries outsdie the faith so every jewish boy marries a jewish girl (even if one of them is a convert).

The issue is two-fold, first according to Jewish belief, the Messiah will be a direct father-to-son descendent. Meaning, if, to get to Jesus you must go through the female lineage, then he cannot be the Messiah. The second is that when the Messiah does come, there are numerous events that are supposed to occur, none of which occurred with Jesus.

Both Joseph and Mary were direct descendent of David, so that pans out. Also every prophecy occurred with Jesus. But that is off-topic for this thread.

Umm..no they didn't.

I always wonder which messiah Jesus was supposed to be the Davidian or the AAron based one? He clearly didn't fit the Davidian ones list of tasks to achieve and seems to fit the role of the priest messiah more, then again the Jews didn't accept him so it's all a moot point. I just never understand why the Davidian lineage of Jesus is pointed out when he never lead the Jews out from under their oppressors ect.

Oh yeah, Russia is a bad place and is always worse than other parts of Europe.

 Ustrello wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
h), a child's religion is based on his mother. Of course it is also assumed that nobody marries outsdie the faith so every jewish boy marries a jewish girl (even if one of them is a convert).

The issue is two-fold, first according to Jewish belief, the Messiah will be a direct father-to-son descendent. Meaning, if, to get to Jesus you must go through the female lineage, then he cannot be the Messiah. The second is that when the Messiah does come, there are numerous events that are supposed to occur, none of which occurred with Jesus.

Both Joseph and Mary were direct descendent of David, so that pans out. Also every prophecy occurred with Jesus. But that is off-topic for this thread.

Umm..no they didn't.

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v05-n06/genealogy

 Bullockist wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
h), a child's religion is based on his mother. Of course it is also assumed that nobody marries outsdie the faith so every jewish boy marries a jewish girl (even if one of them is a convert).

The issue is two-fold, first according to Jewish belief, the Messiah will be a direct father-to-son descendent. Meaning, if, to get to Jesus you must go through the female lineage, then he cannot be the Messiah. The second is that when the Messiah does come, there are numerous events that are supposed to occur, none of which occurred with Jesus.

Both Joseph and Mary were direct descendent of David, so that pans out. Also every prophecy occurred with Jesus. But that is off-topic for this thread.

Umm..no they didn't.

I always wonder which messiah Jesus was supposed to be the Davidian or the AAron based one? He clearly didn't fit the Davidian ones list of tasks to achieve and seems to fit the role of the priest messiah more, then again the Jews didn't accept him so it's all a moot point. I just never understand why the Davidian lineage of Jesus is pointed out when he never lead the Jews out from under their oppressors ect.

Oh yeah, Russia is a bad place and is always worse than other parts of Europe.

If it is the messiah for the jews jesus did not come close to fitting the bill, if anything it was Kokhba that came the closest.

Edit: Got my names mixed up

I find it funny how western European countries which make fun of America as being backwards are now becoming more right-wing and anti-Semitic.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

Wrong. I have no idea about the situation in Russia, so I won't comment, but in the Netherlands in some schools some children become unruly (if reports are to believed mostly young muslims) when the Holocaust is taught as what is taught about it in the class is different from what their parents taught them. The schools, however, do still teach them about the Holocaust, and actively (with varying degrees of success) try to counter the ideas put in the kids' heads by their parents.
Not to mention that voices and efforts are being raised to counter this growing antisemitism, so what exactly was the problem again?

That's called integration, and it's how the system is supposed to work. Eventually. It is a slow process.

 Ciciro wrote:
I find it funny how western European countries which make fun of America as being backwards are now becoming more right-wing and anti-Semitic.

Again, I don't think anyone can start getting on their high horse about any form of racism or violence in other parts of the world. There is plenty of that everywhere. America is not immune to racism, anti-Semitism and radicalism.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

Funny you should say that. Apparently the emigration rate from Eastern Europe has skyrocketed as well.

If that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, the country that inveted the word pogrom is flexing it's expansionist muscles again, right next door...

Your ignorance is astonishing.
The age of pogrom is long gone. It is not Russia Jews are afraid of, Jews are treated in Russia as well as they are in the West, if not better. There is many Jews in high government positions, Jewish businessmen and oligarchs, and in the east there is even an autonomous Jewish province where Jews enjoy special rights.
What the Jews are afraid of is fascist and far-right nationalist groups that are becoming more and more popular in many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania etc. (and admittely, they are becoming more popular in Russia too)
There is also economic reasons. After 1991, people hoped that economy would really improve. For the most part, this has not happened and people are disappointed because of it. Jews however can easily move to Israel to look for better fortunes there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

Yeah, and Russia also treats handicapped people well. Good one.

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

#whataboutery

Actually, no. The original comparison was between Russia and the West, so a comparison between the Netherlands and Russia is not deflection.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

Funny you should say that. Apparently the emigration rate from Eastern Europe has skyrocketed as well.

If that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, the country that inveted the word pogrom is flexing it's expansionist muscles again, right next door...

Your ignorance is astonishing.
The age of pogrom is long gone. It is not Russia Jews are afraid of, Jews are treated in Russia as well as they are in the West, if not better. There is many Jews in high government positions, Jewish businessmen and oligarchs, and in the east there is even an autonomous Jewish province where Jews enjoy special rights.
What the Jews are afraid of is fascist and far-right nationalist groups that are becoming more and more popular in many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania etc. (and admittely, they are becoming more popular in Russia too)
There is also economic reasons. After 1991, people hoped that economy would really improve. For the most part, this has not happened and people are disappointed because of it. Jews however can easily move to Israel to look for better fortunes there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

Yeah, and Russia also treats handicapped people well. Good one.

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

#whataboutery

Actually, no. The original comparison was between Russia and the West, so a comparison between the Netherlands and Russia is not deflection.

He's still wrong though.

Late to the party, but I am shocked to read that Europe the "Creators of Nationalism"(TM) maybe have a hard time integrating people not of the traditional national origin whether they be Jews, Muslims, etc.

That being said, as the modern world/technology accelerates it is only natural for people who feel like they are being left behind/can't compete to turn to things such as Nationalism and Religion more and more to provide a level of thought stability.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

Wrong. I have no idea about the situation in Russia, so I won't comment, but in the Netherlands in some schools some children become unruly (if reports are to believed mostly young muslims) when the Holocaust is taught as what is taught about it in the class is different from what their parents taught them. The schools, however, do still teach them about the Holocaust, and actively (with varying degrees of success) try to counter the ideas put in the kids' heads by their parents.
Not to mention that voices and efforts are being raised to counter this growing antisemitism, so what exactly was the problem again?

That's called integration, and it's how the system is supposed to work. Eventually. It is a slow process.

I have a friend who's child experienced something similar at their school. An asian boy when being taught about the holocaust said a few things, but among them was "it happened to the Jews, what does that matter to me" (well as best a pre-teen could say that). His son then retorted, telling him they all should care. ...Cue the teacher scolding his child for not caring about the feelings of others.

So in that particular case the teacher chose to permit a child to stay segregated, perhaps preferring to not annoy one particular community. I think he eventually received an apology from the teacher over the matter, though he did say he was going to meet her with a few history books and sit there quoting them till she relented. =P

I'd also note that I know a guy who teaches the kids at the local mosque. ...He must be one of the worst racists I've met recently. Bar taking an immediate dislike to me when I mentioned I had Jewish relatives the guy came out with the line, " oh I don't eat Chinese food. Those people eat dogs" (and labored the point) today. I'd hate to know what effect he's having on the kids he works with...

Oh and I mentioned earlier in the thread I'd count swastikas at my uni. Fourteen, plus five slurs and that again in pro-Nazi blithering. Nout on the anti-Islam front oddly. Again its probably just easier to draw a swastika than it is to formulate anything original against another group. The usual nonsense tags trumps that crap many times over however.

 Soladrin wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

Funny you should say that. Apparently the emigration rate from Eastern Europe has skyrocketed as well.

If that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. After all, the country that inveted the word pogrom is flexing it's expansionist muscles again, right next door...

Your ignorance is astonishing.
The age of pogrom is long gone. It is not Russia Jews are afraid of, Jews are treated in Russia as well as they are in the West, if not better. There is many Jews in high government positions, Jewish businessmen and oligarchs, and in the east there is even an autonomous Jewish province where Jews enjoy special rights.
What the Jews are afraid of is fascist and far-right nationalist groups that are becoming more and more popular in many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania etc. (and admittely, they are becoming more popular in Russia too)
There is also economic reasons. After 1991, people hoped that economy would really improve. For the most part, this has not happened and people are disappointed because of it. Jews however can easily move to Israel to look for better fortunes there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

Yeah, and Russia also treats handicapped people well. Good one.

On the issue of treatment of Jews and racism, you Dutchmen are like the pot telling the kettle he is black. It is in the Netherlands, not Russia, that some schools can't even teach about the Holocaust anymore because students will get outraged at the "Jewish bs". Now I am not saying that Russia is free from antisemitism (far from it), but in general, Jews in Russia are treated just as well as they are in the Netherlands or other Western countries.

#whataboutery

Actually, no. The original comparison was between Russia and the West, so a comparison between the Netherlands and Russia is not deflection.

He's still wrong though.

Yes, Just continue ignore things and pretend nothing bad ever happens in the Netherlands. Dutch people are often so self-righteous. Fact is that both the UN and the Council of Europe called the Netherlands out on the amount racism in Dutch society. Dutch people meanwhile, continue to be unaware of their own racism and pretend not to hear or downplay any messages that point to the opposite. Take the Dutch holiday of Sinterklaas for example: "What? Racism? Nonsense! It is just a children's holiday!" Here is a good article on it: http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21588960-debate-holiday-tradition-exposes-racial-attitudes-zwarte-piet-racism People that stand up against racism in the Netherlands receive death threats or are arrested. Yeah... When it comes to racism, the Netherlands is not any better than Russia. As for antisemitism, the situation is comparable as well, except that in the Netherlands most antisemitism tends to come from Muslims and leftists that hate Israel, while in Russia most antisemitism comes from far-right groups.