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Lol

If only GW could just log on and see this gak. Do you think they'd sit there and say how wonderful everything is now?

Also, where does it say that Beard rules are optional? I hate to YMDC this but unless it specifically states that these rules are optional then RAW they simply aren't. You have to grow a beard to get +1 to your dollies.

Additionally, GW doesn't need to put silly rules into 40k to make it ridiculous. They can just put their ultragrimdark hat on and say "scatbikes".

So lets say players wish to play AoS without the beard rules, do those models get their bonuses still? If not then what exactly is the point of playing " legacy" models? You're not getting any special bonuses so why bother?

This is the part where someone jumps in and kills me with mind bullets. I don't need special bonuses to play my models. I just want a game system that represents massive battles in the fantasy genre. Really I could care less if some snowflake gets plus one to their whatever. The amount of times I have used a named character in either game can be counted on one hand. So that's not the issue for me. For me the issue is that I am the mythical new player who doesn't exist. I want to play 8th edition and I want a new Skaven book. I want High Elf Archers to get an update. I want a Chaos Daemons army, I want a Beastmen army, I wanna play Empire too. I wanted to do these things, but now? Well if everyone is getting hard about AoS who am I left to play WFB with? Nobody, that's who. Who is gonna drag their army to the shop for a game now?

How long before GW has us acting like idiots for special rules in 40k? Its already happening baby!

Now play act like you're a Daemonette and make me a sammich!

 Psienesis wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Furthermore, granting people official in game benefits for having a longer beard or moustach is pure sexism

Not really. Sexism implies discrimination that specifically targets women. There are millions of men who either struggle to or outright can't grow beards due to genetics (myself included), so pro-mustache rules hardly targets women specifically.

The rule is stupid, but asserting that it's sexist is like claiming that amusement park rides requiring a height of X to ride them is sexist because women are generally shorter than men.

So it's facio-mandibular folliclist?

I think 'trivial' is the most accurate descriptor.

So not only is the whole world a victim of my rich straight white male privilege, i now have to worry about bearded privilege and extrovert privilege!

I fething give up. Life is obviously way too easy for me as it is.

 Ravenous D wrote:
With Age of Sigmar brings rules where the players have to "act out" the rule, besides it being patronizing and insulting its a pretty stupid mechanic to introduce that doesn't help the image nor the perceptions of the feelings GW has towards its customers. After going through it and seeing the mushroom cloud over in fantasy land I cant help but wonder if GW would do such a thing to 40k? Would GW full Nintendo 40k into the stripped down, bumpers installed, kid friendly game?

Dancing and buffoonery for extra rules, yay or nay?

Age Of Sigmar does have that rule? Whoah, do you at least receive any stunt points like it's in Exalted?

 jokerkd wrote:
So, it turns out the game is actually great

I've heard the "rules" were bland and untactical, but not awful overall. The fact there's no points or balance mechanics pretty much means it's not really a "game" though, it's more of a set of guide lines by which you can push your "plastic model collection" around the table and make PEW PEW noises.

99% of the crowd here isn't really against the rules, other than the "dance for nickels" bit (which may or may not be phased out anyways), but the lack of any sort of balance mechanics making it too easy for "that guy" to exploit, and murdering the game for any sort of competitive environment.

I'm not upset at the rules, I'm more annoyed by the lack of effort. A balanced game system helps EVERYONE, casual and hardcore alike.

Also, community driven games are driven by the hardcore in the this era. The hardcore gamers create the blog, the tutorials, the tactical articles, maintain the message boards, organize the gaming nights and tournaments, they are the ones with the tables in their basements and encourage their friends to play...etc. Without the hardcore players content will dry up, and the community will become increasingly isolated and fragmentary causing the game to breakdown and eventually die off.

Ushtarador wrote:
How is it disrespectful to include some optional gimmick

They aren't optional. In order to make full use of the rules for those units, you must abide by those rules.

That's like saying "you shouldn't complain that Eldar Wraith constructs with Strength D weapons aren't bad, you can always just agree with your opponent not to use them", a sentiment that if you tried to push on people would result in you being laughed out the thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DalinCriid wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
With Age of Sigmar brings rules where the players have to "act out" the rule, besides it being patronizing and insulting its a pretty stupid mechanic to introduce that doesn't help the image nor the perceptions of the feelings GW has towards its customers. After going through it and seeing the mushroom cloud over in fantasy land I cant help but wonder if GW would do such a thing to 40k? Would GW full Nintendo 40k into the stripped down, bumpers installed, kid friendly game?

Dancing and buffoonery for extra rules, yay or nay?

Age Of Sigmar does have that rule? Whoah, do you at least receive any stunt points like it's in Exalted?

Yep, and nope.

It really is as easy as " hey, can we just take all those rules as a given and not have to do the stupid stuff?"

This has worked EVERY time i have played so far. Its amazing what communication can do.

Taking them out completely would also work. But then fateweaver wwouldn't be so fething awesome

 jokerkd wrote:
It really is as easy as " hey, can we just take all those rules as a given and not have to do the stupid stuff?"

This has worked EVERY time i have played so far. Its amazing what communication can do.

Taking them out completely would also work. But then fateweaver wwouldn't be so fething awesome

Rule 0 fallacy. A player having the ability to go through and fix everything that GW screwed up does not change the fact that they screwed up. Consumers choose to purchase professionally-made games because they expect the ruleset to contain a semblance of that professionalism.

I dont know about fantasy, but 40k requires fixing every edition/codex

If you cant bring yourself to play the game without 200 pages of rules, then this game isn't for you

I understand why people are upset. I'd be pissed if they did it to 40k. But you're not going to change anything by complaining.
Either play it or dont. Don't pretend it's unplayable or that you must have 200 pages to tell you how to have fun

 jokerkd wrote:
If you cant bring yourself to play the game without 200 pages of rules, then this game isn't for you

Are you incapable of debating this subject without resorting to absurd straw man arguments? Nobody is demanding 200 pages of rules, we want balanced and functional rules. A game with short and simple rules can be a lot of fun, and 40k would greatly benefit from reducing some of the bloated mess of special rules and exceptions to the special rules. The problem we have with AoS is that GW seems to have spent about 15 minutes writing them and then completely neglected playtesting. Balance is nonexistent, the rules don't function in any sane way (which is ing insane when they're only four pages long!), and the whole thing is full of stupid "mandatory fun" rules.

I believe 40k needs a major revamp; much as I hate the army building aspect of AoS, it does bring a few good things on the table -- the new stats system for example, can counteract all those inv/re animation/whatever saves that are either inadequate or too powerful. Just give them more than three wounds, but still can be killed just as fast.

But if AoS is copied into 40k, well, it won't be the death of it; it's already a kind of collectable products so all they will lose are the strictly gaming crowd. But the game will be dead

 jokerkd wrote:

I understand why people are upset. I'd be pissed if they did it to 40k.

The world you're looking for is "when," not "if." 40k will see a variant of AoS as its next edition, mark my words. Its probably already being written.

 argonak wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

I understand why people are upset. I'd be pissed if they did it to 40k.

The world you're looking for is "when," not "if." 40k will see a variant of AoS as its next edition, mark my words. Its probably already being written.

And if/when that happens, i will either play it, or i will move to another system. i won't be happy about it, but i also won't spend my time complaining about it on dakka

I don't know, man, I'm already pretty kinetic and frenetic when I play.

If I'm already pelvic thrusting, touching people inappropriately, using the lewdest of hand gestures, bringing up all my worst and most illicit proclivities, spewing obscenities, and generally acting the savage then throwing on some funky tunes to dance to wouldn't be a stretch.

Playing against me, as dscribed by some of my lgs most veteran players, is already akin to playing against Doomrider himself.

 jokerkd wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

I understand why people are upset. I'd be pissed if they did it to 40k.

The world you're looking for is "when," not "if." 40k will see a variant of AoS as its next edition, mark my words. Its probably already being written.

And if/when that happens, i will either play it, or i will move to another system. i won't be happy about it, but i also won't spend my time complaining about it on dakka

Isn't defending AoS on dakka wasting your time as well?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Furthermore, granting people official in game benefits for having a longer beard or moustach is pure sexism

Not really. Sexism implies discrimination that specifically targets women. There are millions of men who either struggle to or outright can't grow beards due to genetics (myself included), so pro-mustache rules hardly targets women specifically.

The rule is stupid, but asserting that it's sexist is like claiming that amusement park rides requiring a height of X to ride them is sexist because women are generally shorter than men.

I wish I hadn't written that with the amount of comments it has carried on. Yes I think it is 'accidentally' sexist or at least discriminatory on some level. I don't have a bee in my bonnet about it though. On the very next page I made a joke about it to show I'm not taking it seriously, as after all - it is just a rule set made by a load of men completely put of touch, not only with their customer base, but also with the world as a whole. If you take people like that seriously, then you will be outraged every moment of the day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Point well made but I don't think that'd go down well with the gf - "so if you want a better chance at winning, you'll have to wear this santa beard throughout the game to make sure you always have the longest beard in case you or anyone else brings a thane. Oh and whilst on the topic, here is an Asterix Moustach. Yes, yes of course you need it in case anybody brings Helsbourg. Also you know that subgame in ring of fire, Snakes-eyes? Well I'm bringing medusa so you really don't want to be making eye contact with me during the game. No! I swear I'm not making it up, GW are involving drinking games in WH now - look here are the rules. Ok, well if you want to even it out, you know that I have a really bad back and kneel rather than bend over to pick things up? Well if you make me kneel to pick up dice at any point during the game you auto win! Yes - even if you only have 1 model left and I haven't suffered a single casualty. Well it must be fair! It's in the rules, see? Ok we can ignore that one if we don't take that character. Ok here's another way to make it easier for you - you can take control of ANY one of my units... but you have to give me cheeky fun time later on. No I'm not making it up, I promise! Look right there - it's in the rules! Braaarghrasghurah!!!!! Huh? Oh that was my braying warcry. Eh? What do you mean you're going out?"

Yeah. I'm glad I'm teaching her 40k.

See look everyone. I poked fun at it. I'm not outraged. Honestly.

There is a simple solution for woman, or even males who don't have much facial hair( those exists too)...

Fake moustache/beards, it costs like 3$, here everyone has his chances.

Also it has been brought up a couple of times i think, those Silly rules are just for the Old models, none of the new models of the Stormcast and Bloodtide factions have these.

Because ALL the models will be discontinued in favor of the new models for the new Factions, like Aelfs, Oruks, Seraphon and all that bs.

 jokerkd wrote:

And if/when that happens, i will either play it, or i will move to another system. i won't be happy about it, but i also won't spend my time complaining about it on dakka

And yet here you are, wasting your time complaining about people on Dakka.

Maybe try discussing things on here. You know, instead of just being condescending and dismissive.

 Melissia wrote:

Ushtarador wrote:

Yep, and nope.

Imagine someone at a tournament calling a judge and saying that his opponent didn't yell waggh loud enough or his stare wasn't manly and dignified enough.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
There is a simple solution for woman, or even males who don't have much facial hair( those exists too)...

Fake moustache/beards, it costs like 3$, here everyone has his chances.

Also it has been brought up a couple of times i think, those Silly rules are just for the Old models, none of the new models of the Stormcast and Bloodtide factions have these.

Because ALL the models will be discontinued in favor of the new models for the new Factions, like Aelfs, Oruks, Seraphon and all that bs.

That's the thing people really don't get, is that all the current range is being retired, and all the new models aren't going to look anything like the old factions

Dust wrote:I don't know, man, I'm already pretty kinetic and frenetic when I play.

If I'm already pelvic thrusting, touching people inappropriately, using the lewdest of hand gestures, bringing up all my worst and most illicit proclivities, spewing obscenities, and generally acting the savage then throwing on some funky tunes to dance to wouldn't be a stretch.

Playing against me, as dscribed by some of my lgs most veteran players, is already akin to playing against Doomrider himself.

Which is fine. People play games their own ways, and I don't think anyone has suggested that animated gestures are badwrongfun, though many have pointed out that they personally do not enjoy playing the game in this manner. They take issue with GW effectively forcing them to do engage in such j behavior.

And forcing is as what it will end up in many cases, make no mistake. Among friends, it may be possible to conspire not to use such rules, but playing in any other environment, such as pickup games or tournaments, would result in a variant of the Prisoner's Dilemma occurring, and everyone that had any slight desire for victory would be using these rules.

 argonak wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

I understand why people are upset. I'd be pissed if they did it to 40k.

The world you're looking for is "when," not "if." 40k will see a variant of AoS as its next edition, mark my words. Its probably already being written.

As GW attempts to broaden the audience of its niche hobby and turns it into another D&D 4th ed.

"That's the thing people really don't get, is that all the current range is being retired, and all the new models aren't going to look anything like the old factions"

Hence making everyone's model collections invalid after their customer base has invested millions into their range. Yes you can still play with the old rules, and some people will for a while. But how many of you have been able to get a game of COD:Modern warfare 1 or Red Alert 2 recently?
Oh the COD range does this all the time. But the difference is that it costs the consumer £40 for a good quality product, and more like an extension, rather than thousands for a product that has little quality testing that invalidates all that has come before it. I was annoyed when they destroyed Vulcan in the new Treks, invalidating all that had come before it and all I had invested into it was time and the price of a cinema ticket... this is an entire different level.
It is a complete money grabbing scam that GW is trying to pull on a loyal fanbase they do not deserve.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
So, it turns out the game is actually great

I've heard the "rules" were bland and untactical, but not awful overall. The fact there's no points or balance mechanics pretty much means it's not really a "game" though, it's more of a set of guide lines by which you can push your "plastic model collection" around the table and make PEW PEW noises.

99% of the crowd here isn't really against the rules, other than the "dance for nickels" bit (which may or may not be phased out anyways), but the lack of any sort of balance mechanics making it too easy for "that guy" to exploit, and murdering the game for any sort of competitive environment.

I'm not upset at the rules, I'm more annoyed by the lack of effort. A balanced game system helps EVERYONE, casual and hardcore alike.

Also, community driven games are driven by the hardcore in the this era. The hardcore gamers create the blog, the tutorials, the tactical articles, maintain the message boards, organize the gaming nights and tournaments, they are the ones with the tables in their basements and encourage their friends to play...etc. Without the hardcore players content will dry up, and the community will become increasingly isolated and fragmentary causing the game to breakdown and eventually die off.

I keep hearing its super tactical, if you apply about 20 house rules, and a discussion as to what is appropriate etc

Then I remembered who is telling me this, GW employees with vested interest in it selling and constant "No negativity" training and people who get discounts from them and suck up to GW employees. The people I believe are the guys that have been playing for 20 years, and every one of them says it stinks and its like trading your car in for a power wheels and being told its the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
"That's the thing people really don't get, is that all the current range is being retired, and all the new models aren't going to look anything like the old factions"

Hence making everyone's model collections invalid after their customer base has invested millions into their range. Yes you can still play with the old rules, and some people will for a while. But how many of you have been able to get a game of COD:Modern warfare 1 or Red Alert 2 recently?
Oh the COD range does this all the time. But the difference is that it costs the consumer £40 for a good quality product, and more like an extension, rather than thousands for a product that has little quality testing that invalidates all that has come before it. I was annoyed when they destroyed Vulcan in the new Treks, invalidating all that had come before it and all I had invested into it was time and the price of a cinema ticket... this is an entire different level.
It is a complete money grabbing scam that GW is trying to pull on a loyal fanbase they do not deserve.

Exactly, the legacy Free rules will be outpaced in short order.

What it does though is makes a the models that are super dirt skyrocket in value.

"The game is good, but only if you apply major houserules and rework the game to make it good" is not an argument in favor of a game, stop freaking using it. If the only way you can get people to enjoy the game is to rewrite the rules, why not just make up your own game? You're already tossing the rules aside as it is.

To tell the truth I doubt anyone plays w40k the way it was ment to be in the rule book. The mealstorm missions without house ruling are so skewed, that they are almost unplayable. So in a way it was not the WFB players who rewrote their game system first. Unless one counts the ETC rulings everone used and the comp brought with it. But then 8th was already an edition where WFB wasn't played like it was suppose to be played.

Of course not, GW is not very good at writing rules that reflect "the way it was meant to be played", and, ultimately, what GW intended matters less than what GW actually wrote.

Why is everyone so concerned about looking cool while playing a game? No one takes the "super serious" armchair generals seriously as is, crack a smile and laugh along WITH the joke. So what if the rules allow of a sillier play style, GW doesn't need to make a Grimdark super serious game every single time they release something. To me this seems like a good bit of fun and wasn't even considering playing Age of Sigmar until I read about the role-play elements. I think it'll make for a good bit of banter and a lot of fun... Ya'know, like a game should be. So in short LIGHTEN UP EVERYONE, it's just a game guys, not literal armeggedon. If you don't like what it is don't play it. It really is that simple.

If I wanted to do drunken shenanigans I'd go drink instead of playing a tabletop wargame.

I should note that I'm a teetotaler.

I think everyone needs to relax a little. It's all a homage to the first ever wfb rules (this is from the writers themselves) and will phase out.

The new stuff won't have it and a lot of the old range will be supported as long as people buy it. Personally as a long time 40k player who's only played wfb once, I found it very dull but I've always liked the models. I'll play aos, and I'm starting a Bretonnian army soon but anyone who wants to play 8th are welcome to. Play the game you like, enjoy it, but do what Frankie says.