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2015/07/19 09:13:32
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Polonius wrote: Indian and ANZAC forces in WWII actually were heavily focused on fighting Japan, and even to the extent that they fough in Europe, it was to preserve Britain (at the time their cheif ally against Japan). They did see the fight in terms of self interest.
Not quite. Australia did join the fight and fought German forces in Africa before Japan's entry in to the war, and did purely out of loyalty to the Empire, and a belief that if we stood by Britain they would stand by us if we were threatened. Even before Japan entered the war there was significant tension in the relationship - Australia placed a much higher priority on maintaining the strength of Singapore than England.
Following Japan's entry in to the war and collapse of the British position in the Far East, that tension reached it's extreme. Australian troops that had been committed to Africa were actually withdrawn back to Australia without Churchill's approval. WIthin a fortnight of Pearl Harbour Australia was turning the US as an ally with the capability and will to save the Pacific (and part of making that a practical operation was in Australia finally establishing itself as a seperate nation - we finally took on the dominion status Britain had granted in 1930). As fear of invasion of Australia faded we returned to Commonwealth (in 1943 our PM described us as a nation of 7 million Britons), but there was now an underlying reality that our primary military relationship was with the new Pacific power, the US.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Every empire follows a familiar pattern. Every empire has at one stage, a crusading zeal to shape the world in its own image.
The Romans had it, Britain had it in the 19th century, and the USA had it during the cold war...
But those days come and go, and eventually, somebody else comes along, which is more than likely to be China.
I think you're building a very broad narrative in your head, and things are generally a lot more complicated in real life. And that's led you to pick China as the next empire just because your narrative needs a next empire, but the reality on the ground is that China has cra-cra problems.
Narrative? I'm dealing in cold, hard facts! Of course China has problems, given the scale of its drive for modernity and rapid industrialization, but every nation that undergoes this has problems. Look at the problems Britain had when the industrial revolution started. China's rise is inevitable, given the sheer manpower and resources at its disposal.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/19 18:10:19
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Good, maybe its time to stop it with the bloated military budget and start using that money in things like welfare or foodstamps
I do hope you're joking.
As do I. Welfare and the like might be the worst governmental actions in US history. They're just implemented so damn poorly that an amazing idea turns into a gakky one.
welfare would be great for those who really needed it if it was appropriately administered. Instead anyone can get welfare so long as they have a halfway decent reason. What is really pathetic is that when I was in the military, me and my wife qualified for welfare. We never used it but that is kinda pathetic that our soldiers, sailors and marines don't make enough to live on, and I guarantee the average one works more then 40 hours a week.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/07/19 22:04:47
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Ghazkuul wrote: What is really pathetic is that when I was in the military, me and my wife qualified for welfare.
How can that even be possible? Was it because of some technical flaw in the welfare system or truly so bad pay that you can't survive on it?
For lower enlisted families it is. Even as an E-5 I still qualified for WIC. It wasn't until I made E-6 that no longer qualified for any form of welfare.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/07/20 02:28:05
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
For lower enlisted families it is. Even as an E-5 I still qualified for WIC. It wasn't until I made E-6 that no longer qualified for any form of welfare.
And that's only while you're stateside. I know of families that I was stationed with in Germany, where the military member was an E-6 and STILL was on WIC.
Being dual military, my wife and I qualified, though we never did use WIC.
2015/07/20 02:34:59
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Ghazkuul wrote: What is really pathetic is that when I was in the military, me and my wife qualified for welfare.
How can that even be possible? Was it because of some technical flaw in the welfare system or truly so bad pay that you can't survive on it?
For lower enlisted families it is. Even as an E-5 I still qualified for WIC. It wasn't until I made E-6 that no longer qualified for any form of welfare.
The technical flaw in the welfare system is that it exists in its current state at all. E5 pay is better than my crappy gradschool stipend and I still managed to survive.
That's not a slight to our servicemen as I've never known one to take welfare, but rather on our broken welfare system.
Ps: djones, I'm responding to your post because Spetulhu is on ignore. I apologize in advance for any confusion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 02:36:24
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Narrative? I'm dealing in cold, hard facts! Of course China has problems, given the scale of its drive for modernity and rapid industrialization, but every nation that undergoes this has problems. Look at the problems Britain had when the industrial revolution started. China's rise is inevitable, given the sheer manpower and resources at its disposal.
China's population was vast 100 years ago, and yet they spent the 20th century dominated by numerically much smaller countries.
And sure, China now has a drive for modernisation, but maintaining that drive is never guaranteed, especially as they move in to higher grade manufacturing, where you have to start producing your own innovations. And then you've issues with how China will go when growth slows - can they be stable at 3 to 5% growth?
Now, note I'm not dismissing the idea of China dominating the rest of this century. It's certainly plausible, and maybe even probable. But history is a bunch of stuff that pretty much no-one saw coming, but seemed really obvious afterwards. Big predictive narratives tend to look pretty silly a decade or two later. I mean, go read some 80s cyberpunk, with Japan dominating world events
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/07/20 03:05:05
Subject: Re:US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
The income cutoff for WIC is fairly high in my opinion - for a couple with one child, it's $37,167. An E5 makes what, $27k?
Of course, you can't reduce that, because the agriculture lobby / farm bill crowd would scream bloody murder - it is welfare, but mostly the corporate kind.
That being said in the great scheme of things we spend money on, I'm quite happy for my taxes go to WIC. It's one of the better programs we run, I think. When we unflinchingly spend more than the Iraq war on a plane that can't be flown at night, and sometimes catches fire and no one knows why, I have a real hard time arguing against helping to buy hungry kids cereal and milk and eggs for a couple of years.
YMMV of course
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 03:10:01
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/07/20 03:15:23
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
China's population was vast 100 years ago, and yet they spent the 20th century dominated by numerically much smaller countries.
And sure, China now has a drive for modernisation, but maintaining that drive is never guaranteed, especially as they move in to higher grade manufacturing, where you have to start producing your own innovations. And then you've issues with how China will go when growth slows - can they be stable at 3 to 5% growth?
Now, note I'm not dismissing the idea of China dominating the rest of this century. It's certainly plausible, and maybe even probable. But history is a bunch of stuff that pretty much no-one saw coming, but seemed really obvious afterwards. Big predictive narratives tend to look pretty silly a decade or two later. I mean, go read some 80s cyberpunk, with Japan dominating world events
As a Historian, I can confirm that history is pretty much made by people who think they know what's going on and then get slapped in the face by the hand of God while Jesus screams "WRONG!" into their ear
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 03:16:21
Ouze wrote: The income cutoff for WIC is fairly high in my opinion - for a couple with one child, it's $37,167. An E5 makes what, $27k?
OK, that E5 at about 25K € wouldn't be seen as great pay here either. Even with food, clothes and medical benefits on the job it seems a bit low to be risking your life for (well, my life at least). I make about a fifth more on a security job and probably pay more taxes, but I'd need a good reason to get any welfare here. The typical recipient here would be a single mom in some really low-pay job like kindergarten assistant, where going back to work instead of staying home with the kid might actually cost her money.
2015/07/20 10:49:10
Subject: Re:US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Ouze wrote: The income cutoff for WIC is fairly high in my opinion - for a couple with one child, it's $37,167. An E5 makes what, $27k?
Of course, you can't reduce that, because the agriculture lobby / farm bill crowd would scream bloody murder - it is welfare, but mostly the corporate kind.
WIC is probably the least poorly run welfare program, if only because the stakes are so low. It's not a cash benefit, or even pseudocash like Food Stamps. It's given based on income levels and the nutrition needs of a pregnant woman or children under five. It's generally provided in the form of coupons that can be redeemed for milk, peanut butter, eggs, etc.
A friend of mine was working, and she became pregnant. Despite making about $10/hour, she qualified for WIC. After a few hours waiting, and then seeing the social worker, she received a total of 6 pounds of tofu a month. She took it, because it's free protein, but she didn't exactly live the welfare queen stereotype on six pounds of tofu a month.
OTOH, I will pay about $7-8000 in student loan interest this year. Because I'm married, with a household income of under $120k, I get to deduct that from my income, above the line, when calculating my AGI. That means, in short, that the Federal and State taxpayers are subsidizing my student loans, based on my household income, when my wife and I earn roughly seven times the federal poverty limit.
I'd rather pay $1200 or so less in taxes than have a few pounds of tofu a month.
2015/07/20 11:03:33
Subject: Re:US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Ouze wrote: The income cutoff for WIC is fairly high in my opinion - for a couple with one child, it's $37,167. An E5 makes what, $27k?
OK, that E-5 at about 25K € wouldn't be seen as great pay here either. Even with food, clothes and medical benefits on the job it seems a bit low to be risking your life for (well, my life at least). I make about a fifth more on a security job and probably pay more taxes, but I'd need a good reason to get any welfare here. The typical recipient here would be a single mom in some really low-pay job like kindergarten assistant, where going back to work instead of staying home with the kid might actually cost her money.
That's because that 27K while technically true, isn't accurate. First it assumes an E-5 with less than 2 years in the military, not exactly a real enlisted scenario so lets start with a realistic number for base pay, for an E-5 with 6 years in that number goes to 33K but wait there's more. Theres this thing called BAH (basic allowance for housing) and you either get that or you're living somewhere rent free. For a locale close to the national average in living cost that adds another 18K a year for someone with dependents. Bringing our theoretical E-5 to 51K/yr with medical benefits etc. Similar to what Nuggs said earlier, not a slight to our NCOs but we should use accurate numbers in the discussion unlike welfare determination.
(EDIT: Fixed punctuation)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 11:14:56
2015/07/20 12:54:48
Subject: Re:US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
In fiscal year 2002, these costs (net of rebates) for State agencies in the contiguous United States ranged from a low of $26.70 in Maine to a high of $41.43 in Connecticut.
By 2012, California's per person cost had skyrocketed to $63 a month.
Having worked a fair bit with USAF, I was always astounded how many more people they had to do the same job.
One example, I was deployed out in Florennes, and we had 3 guys for my particular engineering speciality, and that was for 2 aircraft.
The US guys were moaning they were stretched too thin, they had triple the guys. They couldn't believe it when I told them the scope of my job.
Another, we had a guy driving a fuel truck, and was so unflexable in his role that when I asked a simple question, he had to get two seniors out to assist. Again, if that was a UK driver, it would have been fine.
2015/07/20 14:13:28
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Narrative? I'm dealing in cold, hard facts! Of course China has problems, given the scale of its drive for modernity and rapid industrialization, but every nation that undergoes this has problems. Look at the problems Britain had when the industrial revolution started. China's rise is inevitable, given the sheer manpower and resources at its disposal.
China's population was vast 100 years ago, and yet they spent the 20th century dominated by numerically much smaller countries.
And sure, China now has a drive for modernisation, but maintaining that drive is never guaranteed, especially as they move in to higher grade manufacturing, where you have to start producing your own innovations. And then you've issues with how China will go when growth slows - can they be stable at 3 to 5% growth?
Now, note I'm not dismissing the idea of China dominating the rest of this century. It's certainly plausible, and maybe even probable. But history is a bunch of stuff that pretty much no-one saw coming, but seemed really obvious afterwards. Big predictive narratives tend to look pretty silly a decade or two later. I mean, go read some 80s cyberpunk, with Japan dominating world events
Most Western countries would kill for a 'slow' annual growth rate of 3-5%
If the British economy grows by 0.5% this year, the Government will probably declare a national holiday
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/23 04:11:45
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
The Division Of Joy wrote: Having worked a fair bit with USAF, I was always astounded how many more people they had to do the same job.
One example, I was deployed out in Florennes, and we had 3 guys for my particular engineering speciality, and that was for 2 aircraft.
The US guys were moaning they were stretched too thin, they had triple the guys. They couldn't believe it when I told them the scope of my job.
Another, we had a guy driving a fuel truck, and was so unflexable in his role that when I asked a simple question, he had to get two seniors out to assist. Again, if that was a UK driver, it would have been fine.
Thats because your dealing with the Air force....not exactly our most flexible branch Trust me I have had to deal with my fair share of those. In the Marines inside the 2600 field we had a MOS called 2651 which is "Special Intelligence system administrator" that sounds like some guy who sits behind a desk and trouble shoots computers...and that is what he does, but inside that MOS these guys were also responsible for making all kinds of gear run and fixing random things, on top of that they usually had a working knowledge of our Vehicles and how to fix them (even though it was against orders to fix them without higher echelon mechanics.) Finally these guys were also in charge of providing SA support in case our positions ever came under attack and were great at building defensive structures and regular structures.
SO yeah the US Military can be very flexible, but the USAF tends not to be as they don't really need to be.
USAF Personnel (NOT INCLUDING CIVILIAN CONTRACTORS): 333,772
USMC Personnel (NOT INCLUDING CIVILIAN CONTRACTORS): 195,338
Of course, because China is still in catch up mode, much of their growth is from doing the easy stuff like taking subsistance farmers from the inner provinces and putting them in cities with a sewing machine in front of them. That easy growth dries up, though, and then China will be like everyone else, and killing for annual growth of 3-5%. And then there's a question of whether their whole economy can stay stable when growth is low.
Time will tell.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/07/23 08:56:31
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Ghazkuul wrote: Thats because your dealing with the Air force....not exactly our most flexible branch. SO yeah the US Military can be very flexible, but the USAF tends not to be as they don't really need to be.
Air Force stuff is quite specialized, and there's rigid rules about maintenance because those planes are ridiculously expensive and having them not return from a mission is very bad. Ground forces have specialized gear too, granted, but surely many vehicles and general things can be serviced without quite as many special guys as a fighter jet? Besides, a ground vehicle that fails can usually be salvaged - a flyer that fails might not come down in one piece.
Another thing to consider is how many are career military and how many are reservists with civilian jobs and education behind them. As forces get more professional and get more special gear the need for specialists in maintenance will also increase, ofc. Our guys serving in UN peacekeeping missions are mostly reservists and have a wide variety of skills between them, and not that much really exotic gear. Any smaller construction work on the base can be taken care of without bothering anyone else, things like weapons and vehicles are usually left for those actually appointed to service them - but there could well be several others with the skills to handle it.
2015/07/23 13:19:55
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
So when your given that much money you can afford to be lazy
It isn't about laziness at all.... It's more about the fact that they have more regulations to cover, especially given the number of people who's job it is to maintain jet aircraft. I've a few buddies who were helo mechanics in the army, and they had some definite "horror" stories about FAA regulations and paperwork that goes along with maintenance.
2015/07/23 16:38:59
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
So when your given that much money you can afford to be lazy
It isn't about laziness at all.... It's more about the fact that they have more regulations to cover, especially given the number of people who's job it is to maintain jet aircraft. I've a few buddies who were helo mechanics in the army, and they had some definite "horror" stories about FAA regulations and paperwork that goes along with maintenance.
As a former Blackhawk crew chief back in the day. He is not kidding.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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2015/07/23 23:52:33
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
So when your given that much money you can afford to be lazy
You do realize how much of that USAF budget ends up supporting all the other services right ?
Marines aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills.
In his case its his lack of "seasoning"
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2015/07/24 02:59:43
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Thats just a quit search and i believe thats around 9-10 Billion dollars wasted. And thats not even going into the F-35 or any of the space laser programs which have all flopped in epic splendor.
SO yeah my bad, the airforce doesn't waste money and needs that budget.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/07/24 10:53:48
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Thats just a quit search and i believe thats around 9-10 Billion dollars wasted. And thats not even going into the F-35 or any of the space laser programs which have all flopped in epic splendor.
SO yeah my bad, the airforce doesn't waste money and needs that budget.
Do you read the articles ?
Yeah, you get the first one, the government as a whole consistently has problems in the IT realms.
However, second one isn't wasted money it's a snit over paperwork.
Third one is the Air Force in the middle of a disagreement between the Pentagon (DoD)and Congress, from the article.
"The Air Force almost had to buy more of the planes against its will, the newspaper found. A solicitation issued from Wright-Patterson in May sought vendors to build more C-27Js, citing Congressional language requiring the military to spend money budgeted for the planes, despite Pentagon protests."
Yeah the F-35 has some issues but no it hasn't flopped and a lot of those issues are because of the three different sets of requirements one of which is the Marines...
On the uniforms, yeah we get it, everything's smaller about the Marines.
2015/07/24 11:52:41
Subject: US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
Thats just a quit search and i believe thats around 9-10 Billion dollars wasted. And thats not even going into the F-35 or any of the space laser programs which have all flopped in epic splendor.
SO yeah my bad, the airforce doesn't waste money and needs that budget.
Do you read the articles ?
Yeah, you get the first one, the government as a whole consistently has problems in the IT realms.
However, second one isn't wasted money it's a snit over paperwork.
Third one is the Air Force in the middle of a disagreement between the Pentagon (DoD)and Congress, from the article.
"The Air Force almost had to buy more of the planes against its will, the newspaper found. A solicitation issued from Wright-Patterson in May sought vendors to build more C-27Js, citing Congressional language requiring the military to spend money budgeted for the planes, despite Pentagon protests."
Yeah the F-35 has some issues but no it hasn't flopped and a lot of those issues are because of the three different sets of requirements one of which is the Marines...
On the uniforms, yeah we get it, everything's smaller about the Marines.
Paper work errors and disagreements between congress and DoD doesn't matter, at the end of the day thats nearly 10billion wasted. As far as the Uniforms, snappy retort. The point I was trying to make is that when you DONT have the budget that the airforce has you make do with what you have and find innovative ways to get the mission accomplished.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/07/24 16:42:38
Subject: Re:US Army to cut 40,000 soldiers/17,000 civilain jobs. Another sign of the USA in decline?
On 26 January 2012, the Department of Defense announced plans to retire all 38 USAF C-27Js on order due to excess intratheater airlift capacity and budgetary pressures;[28] its duties are to be met by the C-130.[29] In February 2012, Alenia warned that it would not provide support for C-27Js resold by the US to international customers in competition with future orders.[30] On 23 March 2012, the USAF announced the C-27J's retirement in fiscal year 2013 after determining other program's budgetary needs and requirement changes for a new Pacific strategy.[31][32] The cut was opposed by the Air National Guard and by various legislators.[citation needed]
In July 2012 the USAF suspended flight operations following a flight control system failure.[33] By 2013, newly built C-27Js were being sent directly to the Davis–Monthan Air Force Base boneyard.[34] The USAF spent $567 million on 21 C-27Js since 2007, with 16 delivered by the end of September 2013; 12 had been taken out of service while a further five were to be built by April 2014 as they were too near completion to be worth cancelling. Budget cuts motivated the divesture; a C-27J allegedly costs $308 million over its lifespan in comparison with a C-130's $213 million 25-year lifespan cost.[35]
In November 2012, the C-27J deployed for its first domestic mission, contributing to the Hurricane Sandy relief effort.[36]
In July 2013, the U.S. Coast Guard was considered acquiring up to 14 of the 21 retired C-27Js and converting them for search-and-rescue missions, while cancelling undelivered orders for the HC-144 Ocean Sentry to save $500–$800 million. EADS claimed that the HC-144 costs half as much as the C-27J to maintain and operate. The U.S. Forest Service also wanted 7 C-27Js for aerial firefighting.[37] The U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) were interested in acquiring ex-USAF C-27Js. If the DoD determined it could not afford the aircraft, they would go to the Forest Service.[38] In late 2013, SOCOM was allocated 7 C-27Js to replace its CASA 212 training aircraft.[39] In December 2013, the 14 remaining C-27Js were transferred to the Coast Guard.[40]
I remember them. Thought they were only for FoB hopping. C130 though was more capable in that environment though. We (US Army) never used them to ship vehicles though. Think palletized cargo only for that aircraft with some PAX. I also remember some of those were slated for the Afghan Air Force to augment the few helo's and small fixed wing aircraft's they have.
EC-27 "Jedi"
In 2010, the Italian Air Force announced the development of an electronic warfare package for its C-27 fleet under the jamming and electronic defence instrumentation (Jedi) program. One publicised ability of the aircraft is the disruption of radio communications and, in particular, remote detonators commonly used on improvised explosive devices (IEDs).[89] The EC-27 has been compared to the capabilities of the USAF's Lockheed EC-130H Compass Call.
Good name for it
Lockheed has furfilled quite a few orders from other countries military.
Edit
We never shipped a vehicle in a C27
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/24 16:43:19
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
