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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Not having sex is completely different to sexual frustration.

What's sexual frustration?

Wanting to have sex but being denied it. XD

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire. Then, how do we believe their female counterparts are not?

Sisters are not Marines' female counterpart. They are so much better than this!

Both are true. Sororitas are the Marines cooler, more badass little sisters.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire. Then, how do we believe their female counterparts are not?

Sisters are not Marines' female counterpart. They are so much better than this!

Both are true. Sororitas are the Marines cooler, more badass little sisters.

I bet that's why they sell like hot cakes

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

I bet that's why they sell like hot cakes

Or would if it didn't take several hours with a blowtorch to get a GW sales rep to admit they sell other armies besides several types of palette swapped space marines.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

I bet that's why they sell like hot cakes

Or would if it didn't take several hours with a blowtorch to get a GW sales rep to admit they sell other armies besides several types of palette swapped space marines.

They are going to milk their cash cow for all its worth. I feel bad for the Sororitas. They've got a different side of the Imperium we never really get to see.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

 dusara217 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

The initiates, before they get turned into Space Marines by the freakish genetic mutation of the gene-seed implants, are often little more than thugs.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

The initiates, before they get turned into Space Marines by the freakish genetic mutation of the gene-seed implants, are often little more than thugs.

Are you talking about the Night Lords? Because they stopped being regular SM back oin 30k. Or are you talking about the rare Carcharadon-like Chapter, which are infamous for being filthy scrubs, and make up a minority of mentioned SM Chapters?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Wanting to have sex but being denied it. XD

That is not completely different from not having sex, and I stand by my previous point that I don't think this makes people more aggressive. No more than depriving them of any other pleasure/luxury.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sororitas are the Marines cooler, more badass little sisters.

They embody something completely different from what the marines do.

 dusara217 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

I was thinking of the Blood Angels, although it seems they've scaled them back since the last time I read about their recruitment methods.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

The initiates, before they get turned into Space Marines by the freakish genetic mutation of the gene-seed implants, are often little more than thugs.

Not the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Iron Hands, Salamanders, and likely many succesor chapters. They recruit distinguished children; nobles, champion warrior youths, or even volunteers.

AlexHolker wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If we believe Space Marines are chaste, pure, and above desire.

They aren't. They're mostly a bunch of thugs who have been turned into a bunch of abhuman freaks.

Lolwut? Are you calling the Ultrasmurfs, Roman Legionnaires in space, thugs? You're calling the highly disciplined siege masters of the Imperial Fists "thugs"? The noblebright Salamnders, renowned for how much value they place on human life, are " thugs"? Yes, that totally tracks, no illogical nonsense there at all!

I was thinking of the Blood Angels, although it seems they've scaled them back since the last time I read about their recruitment methods.

I suppose that, if you consider ignorant tribesmen competing for the honor of serving the gods to be thugs, then Blood Angels are exactly that. I don't know, perhaps they used to write about BA differently in past Codices.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Wanting to have sex but being denied it. XD

That is not completely different from not having sex, and I stand by my previous point that I don't think this makes people more aggressive. No more than depriving them of any other pleasure/luxury.

No, it is different.

Not having sex is simply when you're not having sex.
Sexual frustration is when you're irritated and angry because of it.

Not that sexual frustration will automatically make them more aggressive, but it can easily be abused to do so. Think about it from the Ecclisiarchy's perspective. You brainwash them into valuing chastity and purity, force them into celibacy from puberty, all while making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels. They end up with a confused and repressive mindset. You then tell them them that the heretics and enemies you're sending them to kill are perverts and degenerates who sodomise and sleep with animals and blah, blah, blah... The sisters will be disgusted and more willing to kill them, doubly so as there's a literal chaos god of pleasure and sex. They think that by doing so they prove their own purity and repent for their sexual desires, so they'll be far more committed to the task.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Wanting to have sex but being denied it. XD

That is not completely different from not having sex, and I stand by my previous point that I don't think this makes people more aggressive. No more than depriving them of any other pleasure/luxury.

No, it is different.

Not having sex is simply when you're not having sex.
Sexual frustration is when you're irritated and angry because of it.

Not that sexual frustration will automatically make them more aggressive, but it can easily be abused to do so. Think about it from the Ecclisiarchy's perspective. You brainwash them into valuing chastity and purity, force them into celibacy from puberty, all while making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels. They end up with a confused and repressive mindset. You then tell them them that the heretics and enemies you're sending them to kill are perverts and degenerates who sodomise and sleep with animals and blah, blah, blah... The sisters will be disgusted and more willing to kill them, doubly so as there's a literal chaos god of pleasure and sex. They think that by doing so they prove their own purity and repent for their sexual desires, so they'll be far more committed to the task.

I think that was a great was to put it.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
They think that by doing so they prove their own purity and repent for their sexual desires, so they'll be far more committed to the task.

On the slip side of that though, they fail even a little and it's a feedback loop leading to Sisters of Slaanesh, since, clearly, by inadvertently reading the text as 'open' instead of 'upon', they're damned for all time.

*snaps fingers* that's your cue, noise marines.






In all honesty, looking over the mini line, One can kinda understand why FFG might think there's a shortage of helmets, and that only important people get them.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels.

Huh? SoB wear power armor. The "corsets" are cloth/leather covers over a "tight boob armor" ceramite torso, and the high heels are seen only in a Blanche painting. He seems to have some fetish for women in high heels.

I love how the utilitarian IoM has its warrior nuns using boob armor, rather than just making plate armor that's actually useful.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels.

Huh? SoB wear power armor. The "corsets" are cloth/leather covers over a "tight boob armor" ceramite torso, and the high heels are seen only in a Blanche painting. He seems to have some fetish for women in high heels.

Blanche had a fetish for everyone in high heels, it's really not limited to just the women, lol.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Not having sex is simply when you're not having sex.
Sexual frustration is when you're irritated and angry because of it.

How do you make Sisters into being irritated and angry because of not having sex, instead of, I don't know, sad and depressed because of not having sex? Also how is “irritable” a quality for a soldier? Wouldn't you rather look for “dedicated”?

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Think about it from the Ecclisiarchy's perspective. You brainwash them into valuing chastity and purity, force them into celibacy from puberty, all while making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels.

The high heels were on one illustration. Only ONE illustration. It's time to just LET IT GO. The Sisters DON'T wear high heels.
And the armor ain't skin tight:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Think about it from the Ecclisiarchy's perspective. You brainwash them into valuing chastity and purity, force them into celibacy from puberty, all while making them wear skin tight boob armor with corsets and high heels.

The high heels were on one illustration. Only ONE illustration. It's time to just LET IT GO. The Sisters DON'T wear high heels.
And the armor ain't skin tight:

Fair enough on the high heels, but in my defence there are plenty of official artwork used by GW where the armor is absurdly thin, eg:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Not having sex is simply when you're not having sex.
Sexual frustration is when you're irritated and angry because of it.

How do you make Sisters into being irritated and angry because of not having sex, instead of, I don't know, sad and depressed because of not having sex? Also how is “irritable” a quality for a soldier? Wouldn't you rather look for “dedicated”?

Isn't being angry and hating the heretic the Sisters whole thing? And irritability is more of an unfortunate side effect. As long as it doesn't get in the way the Ecclisiarchy won't care, and if it does they get threatened with the repentia programme, and they quickly fall back in line.


I should clarify though that all this is merely a hypothetical of why the Ecclisiarchy might want them to remain celibate.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Fair enough on the high heels, but in my defence there are plenty of official artwork used by GW where the armor is absurdly thin, eg:

I know .

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Isn't being angry and hating the heretic the Sisters whole thing? And irritability is more of an unfortunate side effect.

Well, hating the heretics kind of is. But the Sisters are not angry marines. You can have calm, collected, cold-hearted hate, or flaming, raging hate, or any kind of hate in between. I guess you could possibly even have Sisters that love the heretics and just want to purge them in a terribly violent fashion for their own good. And get them to repent through torture before, because they are so willing to go the extra mile for them.


Sisters, grimdarking your stuff since the 90s ^^.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
So obviously it happens.
Sisters are still human, and the lure of another pious warrior can sometimes prove to be too much. Whether it be simply to sate urges, or if it actually results in Kinship, the reasoning is the same.
My questions are:
1. How is this typically viewed within an order? Is it heresy or simply looked down upon.
2. How often does this happen?

You put normal not gene altered humans like astartes together for an extended period of time and things are gonna happen no matter how much they are brain washed.

You can somewhat suppress human urges but never completly do away with them.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Isn't being angry and hating the heretic the Sisters whole thing? And irritability is more of an unfortunate side effect.

Well, hating the heretics kind of is. But the Sisters are not angry marines. You can have calm, collected, cold-hearted hate, or flaming, raging hate, or any kind of hate in between. I guess you could possibly even have Sisters that love the heretics and just want to purge them in a terribly violent fashion for their own good. And get them to repent through torture before, because they are so willing to go the extra mile for them.


Sisters, grimdarking your stuff since the 90s ^^.

True, after all the Order of the bloody rose is supposed to be the overly aggressive ones while the Sacred Rose are the calms ones. If they get another codex (probably ten years from now) Id like to see a lot more on the differences between the orders, perhaps they each have differing views and rules on celibacy?

Torturing them because they genuinely love them and want them to repent? Sounds like Inquisitor Mozgus from Berserk!
http://m.mangahere.co/manga/berserk/c150/20.html

 Smokeycrisp wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Isn't being angry and hating the heretic the Sisters whole thing? And irritability is more of an unfortunate side effect.

Well, hating the heretics kind of is. But the Sisters are not angry marines. You can have calm, collected, cold-hearted hate, or flaming, raging hate, or any kind of hate in between. I guess you could possibly even have Sisters that love the heretics and just want to purge them in a terribly violent fashion for their own good. And get them to repent through torture before, because they are so willing to go the extra mile for them.


Sisters, grimdarking your stuff since the 90s ^^.

True, after all the Order of the bloody rose is supposed to be the overly aggressive ones while the Sacred Rose are the calms ones. If they get another codex (probably ten years from now) Id like to see a lot more on the differences between the orders, perhaps they each have differing views and rules on celibacy?

Torturing them because they genuinely love them and want them to repent? Sounds like Inquisitor Mozgus from Berserk!
http://m.mangahere.co/manga/berserk/c150/20.html

Then againThe order of the Bloody Rose uses agressive tactics. It doesn't say anything about how agressive or hateful are the Sister. In Fantasy Flight Games, the Sisters are described as being filled with clarity and purpose and not hate on the battlefield unlike the Frateris Militia. In Hammer and Andvil, the Necron Lord recognise them for their strange unity, droning chants and calm. They are so faithful and well endoctrinated that they don't need to express and reinforce their religious beliefs by opposing, hating if you prefer, those who are opposed to them like heretics or mutants. They are completly self assured in their belief. They purge the ennemies of mankind because it's their duty. Hate and disgust are psychological mechanism to protect yourself from things that threaten you. That's why in real life the most stringent opponents to things like homosexuality or drugs are frequently cougth with male prostitute doing coke (the true story of Ted Haggard and Larry Craig). Rabid hatred is more of a sign of a vacillating faith or strong temptation than strength. Sisters are so hard to corrupt because they don't even feel threaten/tempted by the power of Chaos, thus crystallizing their faith on hatred of the ennemy is pointless. At least that's my two cents, but feel free to have as much rage filled Sisters as you want in your head canon.

epronovost wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
Isn't being angry and hating the heretic the Sisters whole thing? And irritability is more of an unfortunate side effect.

Well, hating the heretics kind of is. But the Sisters are not angry marines. You can have calm, collected, cold-hearted hate, or flaming, raging hate, or any kind of hate in between. I guess you could possibly even have Sisters that love the heretics and just want to purge them in a terribly violent fashion for their own good. And get them to repent through torture before, because they are so willing to go the extra mile for them.


Sisters, grimdarking your stuff since the 90s ^^.

True, after all the Order of the bloody rose is supposed to be the overly aggressive ones while the Sacred Rose are the calms ones. If they get another codex (probably ten years from now) Id like to see a lot more on the differences between the orders, perhaps they each have differing views and rules on celibacy?

Torturing them because they genuinely love them and want them to repent? Sounds like Inquisitor Mozgus from Berserk!
http://m.mangahere.co/manga/berserk/c150/20.html

Then againThe order of the Bloody Rose uses agressive tactics. It doesn't say anything about how agressive or hateful are the Sister. In Fantasy Flight Games, the Sisters are described as being filled with clarity and purpose and not hate on the battlefield unlike the Frateris Militia. In Hammer and Andvil, the Necron Lord recognise them for their strange unity, droning chants and calm. They are so faithful and well endoctrinated that they don't need to express and reinforce their religious beliefs by opposing, hating if you prefer, those who are opposed to them like heretics or mutants. They are completly self assured in their belief. They purge the ennemies of mankind because it's their duty. Hate and disgust are psychological mechanism to protect yourself from things that threaten you. That's why in real life the most stringent opponents to things like homosexuality or drugs are frequently cougth with male prostitute doing coke (the true story of Ted Haggard and Larry Craig). Rabid hatred is more of a sign of a vacillating faith or strong temptation than strength. Sisters are so hard to corrupt because they don't even feel threaten/tempted by the power of Chaos, thus crystallizing their faith on hatred of the ennemy is pointless. At least that's my two cents, but feel free to have as much rage filled Sisters as you want in your head canon.

Then so be it, but does this mean they can bang or not? I'd argue no.

Real nuns remain celibate because they're the "brides of Christ" and to show their commitment to their relationship with God. Sisters of Battle may not be nuns exactly but if they share this belief that they're brides of the emperor and are completly self assured then it makes sense for them to share this reason for being celibate as well right?

godking wrote:
You put normal not gene altered humans like astartes together for an extended period of time and things are gonna happen no matter how much they are brain washed.

I just don't want to answer that.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:
. Sisters of Battle may not be nuns exactly but if they share this belief that they're brides of the emperor and are completly self assured then it makes sense for them to share this reason for being celibate as well right?

Except for, again, that idea would horrify them due to what Vandire did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

I just don't want to answer that.

He's not wrong though. Look at the birth rates among nuns, if you really want to. There really is such a thing.

 Smokeycrisp wrote:


Real nuns remain celibate because they're the "brides of Christ" and to show their commitment to their relationship with God. Sisters of Battle may not be nuns exactly but if they share this belief that they're brides of the emperor and are completly self assured then it makes sense for them to share this reason for being celibate as well right?

They don't, though. They're explicitly not the Brides of the Emperor.

They are the Daughters of the Emperor.

The Brides of the Emperor was a heretical organisation that assisted a tyrant bring the entire Imperium to its knees.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
He's not wrong though. Look at the birth rates among nuns, if you really want to. There really is such a thing.

Now please, let us look together at how nuns are (and were) selected. Have you read this book?
Trust me, nuns were not really selected for their own will to be celibate (and/or kill the heretics).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Trust me, nuns were not really selected for their own will to be celibate (and/or kill the heretics).

Neither are Sororitas, (other than the heretics part). The celibate thing, assuming they even do (which I contest) would have to be drilled into them. Which has a surprisingly low rate of success on normal humans, along with actual brainwashing, even of a religious nature.

In real life, maybe. In 40K? It's super-effective. In addition to the Sororitas, we have the Storm Troopers, Inquisitors, Commissars and the Space Marines all subject to similar brain-washing and indoctrination. Of all of these, the least-stable are the Space Marines while the rest share, universally, the religious indoctrination of the Imperial Cult and fall to Chaos far less frequently than the Astartes do.