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"The purpose of life is to suffer" is basically a core tenet of the Sisterhood.

Impure thoughts? That's three extra rounds of self-flagellation that night, and two from their Sister Superior.

Following through on impure thoughts? That's self-sentencing to the Repentia.

GW was a bit more adult in those days:

The original quote says:

"the brides not only served as Vandire's bodyguard, but also as servants and companion. They tasted the High Lord's food, fed him when he fell weak with illness, nursed his frail body and entertained him with singing, dancing and other. more exotic skills.

It also specifcially notes that during his rule children from the Schola suffered varied fates -

the most attractive became concubines for Imperial Nobles

Not sure I would call that "more adult".

Adult in the ratings sense, rather than the maturity sense, I think... it's always been a very teenage setting.

Thanks for nabbing the quote, I recently lost my scan of the 2e book.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Adult in the ratings sense, rather than the maturity sense, I think... it's always been a very teenage setting.

Thanks for nabbing the quote, I recently lost my scan of the 2e book.

Indeed, they tended to sanitise the sexual elements of the older fluff.......... not always but often.

I think I'd agree with epronovost. Whilst there's nothing that explicitly says that Sisters of Battle don't have sexual or platonic relationships, I don't think it would really be something they'd be interested in. The closest thing to a relationship they might have is admiration for someone who is particularly heroic or pious or perhaps a strong sense of comradery for their fellow Sisters - but not a normal, human relationship.

According to Codex Witch Hunters page 10 (I think it's from around 4th ed, I can't remember exactly), the Sisters of the Orders Militant don't do much except pray and train.

When not actively prosecuting the Ecclesiarchy's wars, the sisters of the Orders Militant divide their time between prayer and training. Indeed, to the Adepta Sororitas, the two disciplines are nigh inseparable. A sister may devote many long hours knelt before the high altar of her convent, fasting and meditating upon the meaning of a single passage in the Litanies of Faith, before gaining profound insight by the conclusion of her vigil. To the Adepta Sororitas, penitence and self-mortification is a vital part of life as a devout servant of the Emperor, for only through extreme self-denial can one truly gain an inkling of the sacrifice that the master of Mankind Himself has made for His faithful subjects.

The last sentence in particular solidifies my view .

They have only unhealthy relations in fan fiction, every SOB knows that giving love to any other than the emperor leads to chaos.

Purge the Unclean!

The Sororitas have no prohibition against personal relationships, including sexual relationships.


However, I suspect that their training regime and schedule doesn't allow many opportunities if one was so inclined.

Also - note that the Sororitas in question in the Cain Novel (I want to say Cain's Last Stand?) was something of an exception to the rule:

She was a veteran who was detatched as an instructor at a schola progenum prior to the novices being sent off to a 'proper' order. So was essentially alone and cut off from her order.

Secondly, it's not her only demonstrated vice - she also gambles (admittedly scalping the other players horrendously then putting all her winnings in the ecclesiarchy alms box....)

Thirdly, whilst it may not specifically be against the rules, her 'relationship' is one she keeps very much under the counter and never admits to openly - even to other tutors at the scholam that she thinks of as friends. Which implies she knows, deep down, that it's something she really shouldn't be doing.

Given that Soroitas are wholly dedicated to training, combat and religious fervor, such a relationship is unlikely. However, in a massive galaxy the unlikely happens.

Consider that the reason Christian monks, nuns and clergy took vows of celibacy was in order to be closer to God. Clerical investiture is essentially a marriage TO God. To have a relationship with a human is to remove the divine from first place in one's loyalty and affections.

From what I've seen that's more or less the 40k model. In 40k it's a satirical parody to play up the grimdark sacrifice and zealotry of the Ecclesiarchial orders. The fact that it panders to popular anti-religious sentiment can only boost sales.

The Soroitas are, if anything, more thoroughly indoctrinated than the Astartes. The live cloistered (not monastic, that's monks-only) lives. They would take anything that distracts them from unwavering dedication to the Emperor as a very, very serious breach of faith.

Any sister who indulged even in carnal fantasies would likely self-report to their Sister Superior or Canoness. Depending on the attitude of that Superior, at the very least there would be a painful repentance, probably replete with scourging, grueling vigils and reeducation.

A sister who actually indulged in carnal relations of any sort would doubtless find themselves assigned to the Repentia, installed in a Penitent Engine, converted to a Combat Servitor or somesuch. Any of which is basically a one-way ticket to death, burning away their lack of faith through self sacrifice and combat to return their immortal soul to a pure state.

The non-combat orders may have slightly different rules. Certainly the Hospitallers, Famulous and Dialogous all have more interaction with Imperial society than the martial orders. How much contact they're allowed with blood relatives probably varies wildly from order to order and across the Imperium.

But putting any human alongside The Emperor in love or honor or fealty? Unthinkable.

That's my two cents anyway.

Like it or not, there's not much canon information on what the Sororitas do when they're not shooting at heretics. Cain's Last Stand and Daemonifuge are the only two I can think of, although I'm sure someone with more knowledge of Black Library's back catalogue can suggest some others. Also, I don't see why the Cain novels should be taken to be less factually accurate than other 40k novels just because of the light-hearted tone. (I know, they're told as memoirs, and memories can fade, but Cain's Last Stand is chronologically the last one; it's the most likely to be accurate as it's the story he recorded closest to the actual events). I took Sister Julien's keeping her affair secret to be because it was with a co-worker, not because it was wrong in itself, but YMMV.

Most of what I'm reading from this thread is people transferring their ideas of Catholic monastic orders onto the Adepta Sororitas. Fair enough, since that's the obvious inspiration, but it's not watertight. It's a big galaxy, and the answer, as always will be "well, it depends ..." There's not many absolutes in 40k.

My statement that they don't engage in sex is based purely on the fact they're a penitent order, the fact that they're a highly skill-focussed order, and the fact that they're a religious order.

That means that there are already three things making massive demands on their time: punishment, practice and prayer. That simply doesn't leave time in the day for orgasms.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
My statement that they don't engage in sex is based purely on the fact they're a penitent order, the fact that they're a highly skill-focussed order, and the fact that they're a religious order.

That means that there are already three things making massive demands on their time: punishment, practice and prayer. That simply doesn't leave time in the day for orgasms.

Yeah, but they probably bathe, right? Probably communal showers. All those women, together. Soapy naughty parts. Can you get my back, Sister? Cleanliness is next to God-Emperorness. Next thing you know, wandering hands and searching fingers... Giggity.

There is a marked difference between skinship and romantic relationships.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
There is a marked difference between skinship and romantic relationships.

I'm not sure some people make the distinction, but I appreciate you not falling for my previous bait post

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
The non-combat orders may have slightly different rules. Certainly the Hospitallers, Famulous and Dialogous all have more interaction with Imperial society than the martial orders. How much contact they're allowed with blood relatives probably varies wildly from order to order and across the Imperium.

And now... to knock down the house of (sacred) cards:

In fluff sisters can move between orders (according to BL's old Black Industries imprint, so don't blame FFG for this one), and not just between various orders within the broader scope of 'orders militant' or 'orders famulous' but apparently you can go anywhere to anywhere, if they'll have you (important distinction, but there you have it). This would imply that many of the rules (and Rules) are not as hard and fast as you would think, with sisters moving to other orders that better fit their personalities and capabilities, which would, logically, change across the lifetime of a given sister (not everyone dies or gets promoted, so what do you do with aging sisters?).

This sort of sinks your 'sexy sisters in penitent engines' theory. They've more likely be packed off to an order that it was deemed more acceptable.


One interesting thing is that you never hear about sisters who wash out. What happens to the noviates that don't make the grade? You never really hear about that.

Sisters that wash out either die in training or get shuffled into a job in the Administratum somewhere, but they aren't members of the Sororitas at that point so what they do in their free time isn't particularly germane to the discussion. That's where most of the graduates of the Schola Progenium go, anyway. Some office job somewhere in the labyrinthine bureaucracy of the Imperium.

Sisters that move between Orders Militant and Non don't really change much. The rules between one Order and another aren't markedly different. One that, somehow, isn't "getting with the program" will probably find herself assigned to the Sisters Repentia in short order.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
The non-combat orders may have slightly different rules. Certainly the Hospitallers, Famulous and Dialogous all have more interaction with Imperial society than the martial orders. How much contact they're allowed with blood relatives probably varies wildly from order to order and across the Imperium.

And now... to knock down the house of (sacred) cards:

In fluff sisters can move between orders (according to BL's old Black Industries imprint, so don't blame FFG for this one), and not just between various orders within the broader scope of 'orders militant' or 'orders famulous' but apparently you can go anywhere to anywhere, if they'll have you (important distinction, but there you have it). This would imply that many of the rules (and Rules) are not as hard and fast as you would think, with sisters moving to other orders that better fit their personalities and capabilities, which would, logically, change across the lifetime of a given sister (not everyone dies or gets promoted, so what do you do with aging sisters?).

In fact, I believe Abbess Helena the Virtuous is technically a member of every Order at once, despite being primarily a Dialogous.

 Psienesis wrote:
The rules between one Order and another aren't markedly different.

Varies wildly by author and codex. (And I remind that that even the CC books are 'canon' so much as that has any meaning whatsoever.)

According to Blood of Martyrs, becoming a Repentia is something one must take up willingly. Further, strictly speaking, they're also no longer Sororitas, as part of the ceremony where they take the oath is that they are formerly separated from their order. Interestingly, Repentias can include members of non-militant orders.


As far as being cast out to become something else, I remind you that there are orders minoris for things as mundane as choir singing and graveyard tending. Yes, there are entire orders who's only job is to keep the choirs going in those super cathedrals 24/7.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
In fact, I believe Abbess Helena the Virtuous is technically a member of every Order at once, despite being primarily a Dialogous.

Famulous. She started out in the Order of the Key, which is a Famulous order on Ophelia VII.

If anyone were to slip, I would think it would be a Sister from the Orders Famulous. Just the fact that they're often in contact with the profane and vulgar on a daily basis, and their duties take them away the support of a Convent or other Sisters.

BaronIveagh wrote:
According to Blood of Martyrs, becoming a Repentia is something one must take up willingly. Further, strictly speaking, they're also no longer Sororitas, as part of the ceremony where they take the oath is that they are formerly separated from their order. Interestingly, Repentias can include members of non-militant orders.

According to Blood of Martyrs, they also shoot laser beams from their eyes and have civilian bolters.

Famulous. She started out in the Order of the Key, which is a Famulous order on Ophelia VII.

Thank you, sorry. Been a while since I looked.

the_Armyman wrote:If anyone were to slip, I would think it would be a Sister from the Orders Famulous. Just the fact that they're often in contact with the profane and vulgar on a daily basis, and their duties take them away the support of a Convent or other Sisters.

Famulous at least have frequent contact with their superiors.

Sisters Sabine literally live in the muck amongst the heathen masses, sharing their lifestyles. If any Sister were to have carnal relationships with anyone, it would be a Sabine... of course, she'd probably put it down as 'mission-related costs'.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
According to Blood of Martyrs, they also shoot laser beams from their eyes and have civilian bolters.

The Godwyn De'az does not use the 'civilian' bolter profile. Though, I grant that the Bale Eye cybernetic implant does use the same profile as a hell pistol. However, even Imperial guard Commissars can shoot beams from their eyes with it. Just ask Yarrick.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
According to Blood of Martyrs, they also shoot laser beams from their eyes and have civilian bolters.

The Godwyn De'az does not use the 'civilian' bolter profile. Though, I grant that the Bale Eye cybernetic implant does use the same profile as a hell pistol. However, even Imperial guard Commissars can shoot beams from their eyes with it. Just ask Yarrick.

... it has 2 Special Rules and a slightly larger magazine than the "civilian" version, and costs twice as much.

Godwyn-De'az Pattern Bolter (pg 114, Blood of Martyrs)
Class: Basic Range: 90m RoF: S/2/- Dam: 1d10+5 X Pen: 4 Clip: 30 Rld: Full Special: Reliable, Tearing Wt: 6kg Avail: Very Rare

Boltgun (pg 130, Dark Heresy, 1st Edition)
Class: Basic Range: 90m RoF: S/2/- Dam: 1d10+5X Pen: 4 Clip: 24 Rld: Full Special: N/A Wt.: 7kg Avail: Very Rare

While Tearing is nice, let's look what you gave the Astartes:

Astartes Boltgun (Godwyn) (pg 145, Deathwatch)
Class: Basic Range: 100m RoF: S/2/4 Dam: 2d10+5X Pen: 5 Clip: 28 Rld: Full Special: Tearing Wt.: 18kg

... so not only does the Astartes version of the bolter, which is firing the exact same round as the previous weapons, have better range and higher rate of fire, it has twice the damage potential and higher armor-penetration capability, plus the option for a wider range of specialty bolter rounds.

I think, given the fact that the Tearing Quality is not *that* big a deal (and far less so for a 1d10 weapon than a 2d10 weapon, given the greater chance of Righteous Fury on 3 dice, opposed to 2) it's a bit disingenuous to claim that the Sisters are not using what amounts to basically the same weapon as the gakky version presented in Dark Heresy.

As far as shooting lasers out of their eyes, we're referring to space-magic like Holy Light, Hand of the Emperor, The Passion, Soul Storm and, you know, raising the dead, as if they were a Cleric of at least 5th level from Dungeons & Dragons. Blood of Martyrs makes faith seem like space-wizardry.

^ What Psi said.

As far as shooting lasers out of their eyes, we're referring to space-magic like Holy Light, Hand of the Emperor, The Passion, Soul Storm and, you know, raising the dead, as if they were a Cleric of at least 5th level from Dungeons & Dragons. Blood of Martyrs makes faith seem like space-wizardry.

Dark Heresy Second Edition and Enemies Within toned that down rather a lot. The Canoness - who can be secured as a reinforcement character - does still have 'sparkly holy radiance' powers (well, Power), but then she's meant to be the "off the top of the scale" character who's essentially about two notches short of a living saint, and sits in the same chapter as the Eversor Assassin.

The actual sororitas player characters are far more restrained. Their main ability is to gain insanity points rather than corruption points (rather than being flat-out immune to corruption), and to have a few neat tricks triggering off either their insanity score (considered a numerical value for their faith) or righteous fury.

For example, their 'martyrdom' rule, used to lett them stand up uninjured and hale when burning a fate point to avoid death. Now, when they burn a fate point to avoid death, everyone who sees them heroically go down fighting regains a spent fate point. Dismembered appendages remain missing. Thematic without being ridiculous or overpowered.

Equally, they have a trait which lets them regain spent fate points whenever they trigger righteous fury. Which is nice because (a) extra fate points represents the emperor watching over them in a subtle manner - by luck going their way - rather than 'holy glowing aura of awesomness', and (b) righteous fury as a triggering effect pairs well with the Tearing trait of bolt and chain weapons that are traditionally the sororitas' preferred arsenal.


The difference is actually even closer if you look at 2nd edition versions of the weapon stats. All bolters get Tearing. The Godwyn (astartes-calibre) weapon does 1D10+9 damage compared to normal calibre bolters, and a semi-auto rate of fire of 3 (it's lost full auto, though), whilst (as noted) the Godwyn-De'Az gets Reliable. It's still not as good, but it's a lot closer, plus the Godwyn-De'Az is actually better for some uses - primarily suppressive fire, where it (a) gets more semi-automatic bursts per magazine and (b) doesn't jam anywhere near as often.

which is firing the exact same round as the previous weapons

No, it isn't. The Astartes bolter in the RPG is specifically supposed to be a heavier calibre more akin to a 'normal' heavy bolter. Compare the Angelus bolter from the Inquisitor's handbook - a bolter chambered for astartes-calibre rounds, and as such able to hold a magazine of a grand total of three rounds, costing two hundred thrones per shell (about ten times the price of normal bolter ammo).

@Psienesis

The Bolter profile for the Space Marines was modified in a erratum released shortly after Black Crusade. It as now the following profile Range: 100m; RoF: S/3/-; Dam: 1d10+9 Pen: 4, 28 rld (full) Special rule: Tearing. This isn't really important since those stats were made to balance different games not represent the fluff. In the same vein, you will notice that the average stats of a monster might change from one system to another (Wytchs are very dangerous in Rogue Trader, but much more tame in Only War, Kroots are more powerful in Deathwatch than Rogue Trader and Orks less powerful in Only War than Rogue Trader or Deathwatch). In Deathwatch you fight hordes and massive monster in a semi invulnerable state while in Dark Heresy you play a murder-mystery game against weird monster.

Lets keep the debate on FF game system for another time and return to the core of the subject.

@Baronlveagh

While it's possible for a Sister to change Order or even vocation this isn't really something that is very feasable or common. All the branches of the Adeptas Sororitas require very different skills and aptitude. Some of them require extansive specialised training. No, a soldier can't turn in a linguist expert (or vice versa) in matter of weeks. While its true that non militant Orders do train regularly and extensively in combat they are still much less trained than a militant Sister simply because they dedicate more time to other types of skills. The only transfer between different branches are probably for Novices whose aptitude didn't match expectations and were sent to somewhere they could be more useful or some other rare circomstances (ex: A group of Hospitalier defended their hospital against hordes of Plague Zombies and renegades at gun point for days and the survivor decided to leave their Order to seek retribution in company with Militant Sisters). Aging Sister who cannot be kept in prime fighting age by rejuvenat could also be transferred to non militant Order for «retirement». High ranking members can probably transfer Order or even belong to more than one at the same time simply in virtue of their rank and responsability, but this is mostly for ceremonial purpose. Ironically, since all Sisters are well trained in combat the easiest Order to adapt to are militant ones. Sure, a former Dialogous will trail behind a Militant in term of combat aptitude (especially in more advanced technique that require more time to master like close combat or tactical interventions), but those are skills that can be aquired very quickly provided you have the right teacher. The rules behind each Orders can be fundamentally different, but the culture remains the same. They will rever the same Saints and live harsh and disciplined lives. While a normal Sister can be considered a psycho-social mess, they aren't so broken they can't change lifestyle (as long as they keep a solid base). Beside the Sabine Sister, who would do it in a dishonest fashion, I would not expect any Sister to have more than a platonic relationship. This doesn't prevent Guardsmen from dreaming. That's all they have left.

epronovost wrote:
The rules behind each Orders can be fundamentally different, but the culture remains the same. They will rever the same Saints and live harsh and disciplined lives. .

That I can disprove (as some orders minoris are formed under the authority of the Cardinals of the local synod, and would thus practice the local brand of the Imperial Creed, as opposed to coming from Ophelia, etc). I'll hold up the Orders Madriga as an example of an order that the usual 'harsh' would be unsuited for (too much risk of damaging a singing voice).

I would suggest that each Order has it's own Rule (much like the orders they're based off of) which varies in not only 'what is prohibited' but 'what is an appropriate punishment'. This does not even get into things like the commanders discretion, etc. In Hammer and Anvil one sister is shocked that the main characters were merely demoted for disobeying orders instead of being cast out of the order, suggesting that even in the main orders, the Rule is, itself, subject to interpretation.

Unless it's stated somewhere "official," there is no reason why the non-Militant orders would be looser morally than the ones with guns. Sisters of Battle are based on our real, non-Militant nuns, who are the mold for the SoB's strict morality (in the sense of their devotion to duty, not their adherence to the Ten Commandments). Nuns that tend to the sick, or dig for ancient artifacts, or educate future Commissars could be just as devoted, just as fanatical, just as isolated as the Militant orders. Maybe more so. Changing orders to pursue higher goals seem more likely than changing orders to get laid occasionally. At the end of the day, the entire Imperium is similar to Nazi's or Soviets or Imperial Japanese or North Korea in that the desires of the individual are sublimated to the needs of the state.

A boltgun is a boltgun is a boltgun. They all fire a .75 caliber armor-piercing mass-reactive explosive round. The Heavy Bolter fires a 1.0 caliber version of the same round. There is no difference between the boltpistol (for example) carried by a Commissar or an Inquisitor and that carried by a Space Marine. Yes, Space Marines are big, but they are not so big that they would hold a "regular" weapon between thumb and forefinger.

As to the Sisters? They all train at one of two Convents before being assigned to/chosen by their Order. As for harsh punishments damaging singers? Unlikely, really. The human body has lots of bits one can inflict pain on without serious risk of permanent injury, not to mention the very creative methods of discipline employed in religious and educational institutions over the past seven, eight hundred years or so.

 Gobbla wrote:
Sisters of Battle are based on our real, non-Militant nuns, who are the mold for the SoB's strict morality

Wrong, and this is probably where the problem is.

Culturally and militarily, SoB are based on religious orders militant, ie Knights Hospitaller, the Order of Santiago, etc with a lot of references to Joan of Arc thrown in. They have far more in common with the female members of the Order of Santiago or the Order of the Hatchet, or chevaleresses in general, than modern nuns.