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Made in de
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

So, the indices in their entirety have been leaked, the rules for the Guard in their entirety (all data sheets, weapon rules and point costs can be found here:: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6edukc/full_rules_leak/

So glancing over it, here are some of the BIG things I found:
- The standard Guardsman is only FOUR points now [Conscripts are three points but unless you go for special synergies (haven't gone through all the character rules), but no big reason to pick them].
Also the sergeant can get special melee and ranged weapons, e.g. a 5pt. plasma pistol. Combined squads are gone, but buffs work in a bubble now, e.g. a commissar can BLAM for any unit in 6" around him (as mentioned above, which results in a squad only ever losing one model to a morale test max.

- Tempestus Scions/Stormtroopers are NINE points now (ten points with thehot-shot lasgun/pistol they come with, but they don't have to pay that point when they pick a special weapon instead). So only 4 points more than naked veterans with lasguns for Hotshot weapons (18" S3 AP -2 D1 for rifles, though 6" for pistols [that sucks]), 4+ saves and an on the spot accurate "everywhere 9" away from the enemy" teleoport. while grenade launchers (5pts) and plasma guns (SEVEN points) are much, much cheaper now, while melta is much more expensive as it should be (12 points).
Standard Scion squads are TROOP choices while the command squads are elite. Strong choice as far as I see it both as suicide melta delivery with grav chutes (21 pts per melta Scion) as well as full-size frontline units with plasma. Bad choices seem to be flamers (7pts and wastes the BS) and hot shot volley guns (8/9 pts (source image blurred) and 24" Heavy 4, otherwise same as a Hotshot-Rifle). Also getting a vox now forces the radioman to replace his rifle with a hotshot-pistol.

Can't stress the value per point of plasma scions now though, one stormtrooper with a plasma gun is only 16 points (guardsman would be 11 and a Veteran 13 with all the attached drawbacks).

- Veterans, as mentioned above, finally got their price brought in line and balanced with both guardsmen and stormtroopers, so 2 points more than grunts and 4 points less than stormies.
Also, grab your chairs and hold your butts for this: They are now an elite choice while Tempestus Scions are troops. Also no upgrade for a 4+ save available as far as I could see.

Orders: Vox-system reworked, an officer needs to be within 3" of a unit with a vox caster (so e.g. you could skip the one in the command squad if the officer keeps close to a regular guardsmen squad with one) to use it and a vox in target units effectively increases the range of orders to 18" from the officer. Without vox the range for orders is 6" (this includes tank commanders/Pask which hand out a different set of orders to other Russes [Russ orders are: -reroll all 1s to hit, or forgoe shooting and move your full movement distance in the shooting phase, as well as one order that allows the use of smoke and shooting in the same turn). Orders are only for the shooting phase (including one that allows infantry units in combat to pre-emptively fight in close combat in the shooting phase rather than in-melee, which prevents enemy models from striking back). Orders are potent as far as I see it, especially FRFSRF which effectively gives FOUR shots in rapid fire range to both regular and hotshot lasguns. There is also one to re-roll 1s of to-hit rolls as well as one for re-rolling 1s for to-wound (whoever would ever use that one). Obviously non-tank commander orders are infantry only.

Also no more boosted order range from Chimeras.

Equipment:
- Plasma pistols are only FIVE points now, so a good choice on any character with 3+ to hit. Bolters, bolt pistols, hotshot lasguns/pistols are 1 pt and part of the regular ranged weapon list, looks to me as if all sergeants can equip them if I didn't miss something.
- Heavy Flamer is an outrageous 17 points and comletely overprized, while heavy bolters are 8, multi-lasers 10 and auto-cannons 15 points. If you have flamers on any of your tanks you better start tearing them off now, now that vehicles have to pay points for them as well. Hellhounds with inferno cannons are 93 and with chem-cannons are 88 points if you want flame tanks.

- Common Heavy Weapons: Heavy Bolter 8pts, Autocannon 15pts, Lascannon 20pts, Missile Launcher 20pts. (premium cost for ammo type flexibility I guess). Multilasers are 10pts, while the one-use hunter-killer missiles are only 6pts.
- Start collecting those plasma gun bits.

Important note: You have to pay for ALL the wargear on units, even those they come with to begin with, unless the specific weapon is 0 points (all the grenades, lasguns and interestingly enough many primary vehicle weapons such as manticore rockets, hydra autocannons or even the deathstrike missile). Overall pretty confusing which vehicles have to pay extra for their standard equipment and which don't. But considering a Hydra is 115pts. and a Manticore 125 while a Leman Russ without weapons is only 132pts (or a weaponless Hellhound:73 pts), I guess they are included in the rather hefty unit price in those cases.

That's just from me glancing over the admittingly rather blurry part of the Imperium 2 Index for things that interest me for my planned Cadian army, I didn't dig deep, especially not for vehicles and characters.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 14:27:24


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

I disagree about HF being useless on chimeras.

A HF may cost 17 points, 9 more points than a HB. If you are moving the chimera, the HF will be autohitting where the HB will be hitting on a 5+. The HF will be hitting 3.5 times for each single time the HB hits. Even if stationary, the HB will only hit 1.5 times vs the HF 3.5 times.

The HF never degrades in effectiveness as the vehicle takes damage. It's always auto-hitting, where other weapons start to hit on a 5+ and 6+.

The Chimera can move 12" when undamaged. That's an effective threat range of 20" -- which is pretty good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 14:37:56


 
   
Made in de
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

 labmouse42 wrote:
I disagree about HF being useless on chimeras.

A HF may cost 17 points, 9 more points than a HB. If you are moving the chimera, the HF will be autohitting where the HB will be hitting on a 5+. The HF will be hitting 3.5 times for each single time the HB hits. Even if stationary, the HB will only hit 1.5 times vs the HF 3.5 times.

The HF never degrades in effectiveness as the vehicle takes damage. It's always auto-hitting, where other weapons start to hit on a 5+ and 6+.

You have to get within 8" to use it first though. That's likely several rounds of firing that Heavy Bolter with 5+ to hit. 17pts is a big price to pay especially if you might never get to use it if the vehicle bites the dust (the weapon remains fully effective even if the tank gets slowly crippled, but it also makes it much harder to get into the 8" range).

Want to add that the Chimera can also efficiently overwatch with that flamer though.

Overall seems to me that taking a heavy flamer instead of a HB on Russes or chimera chassis support vehicles such as basillisks or Manticores is not a choice that should be even considered anymore, while it's a debatable choice on chimeras and hellhounds. Also completely wasted on infantry (particularly looking at those 3 Special weapons + 1 HF veterans) as the price is just too prohibitive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 14:44:13


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
You have to get within 8" to use it first though. That's likely several rounds of firing that Heavy Bolter with 5+ to hit. 17pts is a big price to pay especially if you might never get to use it if the vehicle bites the dust (the weapon remains fully effective even if the tank gets slowly crippled, but it also makes it much harder to get into the 8" range).
A 20" threat range means you will likely be there by turn 2. The chimera will also be transporting troops and dropping them off at an objective, so it's not a waste.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Overall seems to me that taking a heavy flamer instead of a HB on Russes or chimera chassis support vehicles such as basillisks or Manticores is not a choice that should be even considered anymore, while it's a debatable choice on chimeras and hellhounds. Also completely wasted on infantry (particularly looking at those 3 Special weapons + 1 HF veterans) as the price is just too prohibitive.
I agree on the Russ or support chassis. The Russ should be taking the PC every day of the week.
Just to toss this out there. Overwatch has changed 'wall of flame' a little bit. Flamers now still auto-hit in overwatch, so they do d6 hits. That's twice as effective as before.

Taurox Thoughts
- The Taurox prime no longer seems limited to who can take it. It's tempting to take it for the gating gun and hot shot volley guns.
It's not as durable as the Chimera, but for only 50 points for the base chassis it's tempting to take for it's firepower.

Vehicle Upgrades
- At 2 points a pop, storm bolters on every chassis you can take are a great buy. Time to glue them on your chimeras, taurox, and LRBT. There are no better damage increases for the point cost.
- The base chassis cost are now things to consider. It seems that throwing as many weapons on per chassis is the way to go.

Orders
- Unless you are wounding on a 3+, the order "Take Aim!" increases your damage output. It also combo's amazingly well with PGs to lower damage.
- Orders seem great force multipliers. Vox casters can significantly increase your cost per entry, but greatly increase the effectiveness of the range of one commander.

Commisars
These are insanely good. Stick one of them close to 4 seperate squads and the damage of morale is greatly mitigated.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 15:40:57


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





7 point plasma guns seems like a typo. The mass quantity you can bring in an army that a) doesn't care about losing guys and b.) has plentiful access to extolling 1s seems absurdly good. If you like dudes with guns, now is your tume.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

Why would anyone buy a command squad now? Medpacks seem bad, banners are useless with Commissars around and a vox network is expensive for what it does. So you get a veteran squad with no ablative wounds at all. Just get some Veterans or Scions if you want bs3+.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Seems about right but luckily it is easily tuned going forward haha. Really like the new system, will have to get a solid idea of what points look like but I really like the direction it is going. Will be interesting to see I do find it interesting how marine apothecaries are the only ones that can bring back dead models. Still with all of the multi wound characters out there healing wounds is gonna be a big thing for keeping them alive against snipers

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Even though normal guard are 4 ppm, I think vets at 6 ppm are a better bang for the buck.
Hitting on a 3+ vs a 4+ means they do 33% more damage with their lasguns. As you can pack 3 PGs per squad, they produce a lot of damage.

Scions are 10ppm, and their PGs are 16 ppm with the infantry. While they get a 4+ save, I'm just not seeing them as worthwhile.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 15:38:29


 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

So, have been looking into writing a battalion list. All the slots seem super competitive, except for fast attack. Now that fliers are their own slot, a battalion needs to pick three units from the following:

Rough riders: Better than they used to be but if you want to charge from outflanking you need to roll 9 on 2 dice. I guess if the enemy is behind a barricade you only need an 8 (barricades give units a 2" combat zone because of terrain size).

Sentinels: I'm tempted with armoured sentinels with lascannons, although they are 60pts each. Scout sentinels get a scout move and are 5pts cheaper, but only have a 4+ save.

Hellhounds: Maybe melta hounds are good but that -1 to hit is going to hurt them. Flame hounds are probably a good choice but chem hounds also look good because of the matched 8" chem/flamer range. 105 for a chem/flame hound, which you advance and smoke if you cant get within 8".

So, what fast attack appeals to you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
Scions are 10ppm, and their PGs are 16 ppm with the infantry. While they get a 4+ save, I'm just not seeing them as worthwhile.


It's the deep strike within rapid fire plasma range, with orders as well. Expensive I guess but worth it if it works. Also, no scatter or reserve rolls make planning so much easier.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 15:45:58


The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Trickstick wrote:
It's the deep strike within rapid fire plasma range, with orders as well. Expensive I guess but worth it if it works. Also, no scatter or reserve rolls make planning so much easier.
Truth.
5 of these guys in dropping with 2 PGs is pretty intense.

Honestly, I'm seeing armies where These are the troops choices and then taking gun tanks for the rest of the army.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:01:09


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Well, Scions are troops, so that's a point in their favor. But yeah, accurate deep-striking plasma is righteous.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Well, I'm sure going to miss 50-man blobs. Though I suppose conscripts can be taken without any tax now...

However, the loss of platoon blobs also brings with it an opportunity: it looks like the Guard can fill out a Brigade detachment more easily than any other faction, because we have dirt-cheap options in every single FoC slot. And we'll probably want to, so we can get all those tasty HQ slots for our Commissars.

We may have to turn our list-building mentality upside-down for the new detachment system: instead of thinking of models as competing for slots, think of them as padding slots to help you fill out those detachments.

Bring one brigade detachment with six infantry squads, three special weapon squads with something cheap like grenade launchers (or three Ratling squads perhaps?), three Heavy Weapon Teams with something cheap like mortars or heavy bolters, some multilaser sentinels or maybe hellhounds to fill out the fast attacks, and all the HQ picks you please. Then bring a second brigade detachment with even more infantry, maybe some artillery or tanks, etc, points permitting. Enjoy having 18 command points.

Or maybe take four to five Battalion detachments with 12-15 infantry squads and 8-10HQs to fill out the minimum for all of those (easily done with PCS and Commissars), that way you don't have to worry about anything else being mandatory. You now have 12-15 command points and all the optional slots you could ask for.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

 labmouse42 wrote:
 Trickstick wrote:
It's the deep strike within rapid fire plasma range, with orders as well. Expensive I guess but worth it if it works. Also, no scatter or reserve rolls make planning so much easier.
Truth.
5 of these guys in dropping with 2 PGs is pretty intense.

Honestly, I'm seeing armies where These are the troops choices and then taking gun tanks for the rest of the army.


I was thinking 10s with 4x plasma and a pistol. Makes the orders affect more bodies. I guess the problem is dealing with 9" exclusion zones. Is the meta going to allow for good drop locations?

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

One question is : How good are transports if you are deep striking in Scions?
Take a chimera. With dual HB the tank comes in at ~90 points. While the platform is durable, how good is that? At this point I'm just not seeing it as 'awesome'. The dual HF version is 110 points.
A Taurox prime is also fairly expensive once you add on a battle cannon and 2 autocannons. It clocks in at 120 with a storm bolter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Trickstick wrote:
I was thinking 10s with 4x plasma and a pistol. Makes the orders affect more bodies. I guess the problem is dealing with 9" exclusion zones. Is the meta going to allow for good drop locations?
Can you deep strike in a character to give orders? Adding in vox casters and getting within 18" gets tricky.
Honestly the scions will just be wiped the following turn. T3 with a 4+ save is not that tough. I would rather drop 2 squads instead of 1.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:07:45


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





That probably just depends on which faction your facing, some factions inherently have better board control than others.

Though there's probably a lot of overlap between "factions with poor board control" and "factions with models you want to delete with a plasma strike".
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

Sentinels hit on a 5+ when they move...

Seriously, for my hard hitting vehicle play style that 1 rule is really messing me up. It is making all vehicles want to sit still to shoot, or exclusively use flame weapons. Even the stubber is heavy. I guess stormbolters really are a much better advancing weapon now.

Hmm, flame sentinels though... Vehicles can overwatch now right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:11:59


The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

One thing to consider -- Look at the way scoring objectives now works.
"A player controls an objective marker if they have more models within 3" of the center of it than their opponent does"

This means a single tank sitting on an objective can easily be overridden by infantry.
I've not seen any advantage to using 'troops' over unlocking extra CPs.
This gives strong arguments to fielding 10 man squads with just lasguns to sit on objectives. 40 points is dirt cheap. Throw them onto objectives like candy.
If you play lots of ITC games, which is something to consider. Bodies on objectives are really important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Trickstick wrote:
Hmm, flame sentinels though... Vehicles can overwatch now right?
That's what I've seen

ADLs
Check out the quad-gun. Heavy 8. Add 1 to hits for weapons that can fly. -1 for other targets. Sticking a squad of vets behind there, or a lord commissar is pretty tight.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:26:03


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





It's too bad that Move! Move! Move! forces you to Advance when you use it (though even with that restriction, getting a whole extra movement phase is AWESOME), because if it didn't I would grav-chute a demo-charge team, use MMM to get them within 6", and yell "Bombs away!"

Ah well, the lulz that could have been.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Harker, right? I mean, 6" plasma safe bubble, no orders needed, with a nasty gun in his own right. I've got probably 10 or 12 catachan plasma gunners modeled up right now that are digging their way out of my mini case when they heard about this guy.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

 ross-128 wrote:
It's too bad that Move! Move! Move! forces you to Advance when you use it (though even with that restriction, getting a whole extra movement phase is AWESOME), because if it didn't I would grav-chute a demo-charge team, use MMM to get them within 6", and yell "Bombs away!"

Ah well, the lulz that could have been.


One thing I noticed is that demo bombs are grenades, so you can only use 1 a turn. Maybe some flamers?

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Oh hey, you're right. Harker would be great for plasma drops, though he might not work with Tempestus because it looks like those can't take a Regiment keyword, so they can't be considered Catachans. I blame 6th/7th for that one, I miss being able to have Catachan Stormtroopers.

Also, since a Valkyrie does have 12 seats, you could fit a 10-man squad (veterans I guess, since Harker won't work on Tempestus?), Harker, and a platoon commander (because he's just one model now) all in one Valkyrie.

Hmm, the change to transports also means that two SWTs can share a single transport. Interesting, might be a cheaper if somewhat less killy suicide squad option.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





 ross-128 wrote:
It's too bad that Move! Move! Move! forces you to Advance when you use it (though even with that restriction, getting a whole extra movement phase is AWESOME), because if it didn't I would grav-chute a demo-charge team, use MMM to get them within 6", and yell "Bombs away!"

Ah well, the lulz that could have been.


I think it's the "you have 50 conscripts in your face RIGHT NOW order".

I also love Fix Bayonets! Enemy charges in, burn CP to strike first. Burn CP to pass Morale, fight in Shooting phase with Fix Bayonets, strike first in combat phase again. Without blobs, I'm not sure if we really have a unit that it will be good on (Ogryn?), but it's an interesting option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ross-128 wrote:
Oh hey, you're right. Harker would be great for plasma drops, though he might not work with Tempestus because it looks like those can't take a Regiment keyword, so they can't be considered Catachans. I blame 6th/7th for that one, I miss being able to have Catachan Stormtroopers.

Also, since a Valkyrie does have 12 seats, you could fit a 10-man squad (veterans I guess, since Harker won't work on Tempestus?), Harker, and a platoon commander (because he's just one model now) all in one Valkyrie.

Hmm, the change to transports also means that two SWTs can share a single transport. Interesting, might be a cheaper if somewhat less killy suicide squad option.


I wasn't even thinking drops, I was thinking 4 trip plasma squads within 6" of him on foot, not getting hot all that often. A couple vets in Chimeras with him in an extra seat probably works, too. I think he also works on Tanks, as they have the regiment keyword, so he could babysit a trio of plasma toting Russes so they can overcharge and not kill themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:34:31


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Biophysical wrote:
 ross-128 wrote:
It's too bad that Move! Move! Move! forces you to Advance when you use it (though even with that restriction, getting a whole extra movement phase is AWESOME), because if it didn't I would grav-chute a demo-charge team, use MMM to get them within 6", and yell "Bombs away!"

Ah well, the lulz that could have been.


I think it's the "you have 50 conscripts in your face RIGHT NOW order".

I also love Fix Bayonets! Enemy charges in, burn CP to strike first. Burn CP to pass Morale, fight in Shooting phase with Fix Bayonets, strike first in combat phase again. Without blobs, I'm not sure if we really have a unit that it will be good on (Ogryn?), but it's an interesting option.


You can't shoot or charge after advancing (well, there's Forward for the Emperor, but I think we still can't stack orders), so I wouldn't use MMM offensively, it's more of either an objective-grabber or a Brave Sir Robin maneuver.

Getting your guys to book it 14"-24" in one turn is one sweet objective grabber though.

Oh wait. Wait a second. I just though of something. Most deep-strikes you can't move after striking because they specifically occur at the end of the movement phase. But the Valkyrie's grav-chute insertion is different.

The Valkyrie's grav-chute insertion happens during the Valkyrie's move. That means your movement phase is still going, and there's nothing that says the dropped unit can't move! You totally can drop a squad out of a Valkyrie, do a standard move, and then attack! That's awesome!
   
Made in de
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




DE

How do you feel about adding Heavy Weapons to Vet Squads. I can see using 10 Vets with Vox+ 3x Plasma +Autocannon for 101 pts even though not a troop choice. I can't really make my mind up on how to field regular infantry squads though...

Also I don't see the point on using Valkyries as transports at all, sadly they can't drop Sentinels anymore. But as a gunship they seem not to bad in my eyes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:41:23


 
   
Made in us
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I actually think Valkyries might be the best transport in the game now, if a bit pricey.

Every other transport has to disembark its passengers before it moves. The Valkyrie can disembark them after moving (technically "while" moving, but you know, plastic models), and it can drop them off at any point on the board that it covered during that movement. And, if I've read correctly, those models can still move and shoot normally after using a grav-chute.

Which means dropping two flamethrower SWTs (12 seats, and units can share transports now) with six flamethrowers total, walking them toward the enemy, and having a barbecue is totally legit. All while the Valkyrie is doing a drive-by.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

*Reads Valkyrie and Transport rules.*

By Jove it checks out! Do any other vehicles have a grav cute style rule, or are we alone in our awesome move-attacks? I can see valkyries being popular transports if you can move attack.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





If that Valkryrie interpretation stands up to FAQing, that's super cool.

I'm liking infantry squads as cheap objective grabbers and screeners. Flamer, Power Maul, Plasma Pistol is 52 points. Call it 60 for a Heavy Bolter. Maybe just 40 for the lasguns. Either one is okay, I think.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 ross-128 wrote:
I actually think Valkyries might be the best transport in the game now, if a bit pricey.

Every other transport has to disembark its passengers before it moves. The Valkyrie can disembark them after moving (technically "while" moving, but you know, plastic models), and it can drop them off at any point on the board that it covered during that movement. And, if I've read correctly, those models can still move and shoot normally after using a grav-chute.

Which means dropping two flamethrower SWTs (12 seats, and units can share transports now) with six flamethrowers total, walking them toward the enemy, and having a barbecue is totally legit. All while the Valkyrie is doing a drive-by.
Or dropping a bunch of ogryns to 'get close and personal'

 Mr.Moe wrote:
How do you feel about adding Heavy Weapons to Vet Squads. I can see using 10 Vets with Vox+ 3x Plasma +Autocannon for 101 pts even though not a troop choice. I can't really make my mind up on how to field regular infantry squads though....
Point for point, vets are pretty decent on the amount of damage they can deal out. You need to give them a chimera to ride in though.

LRBT Spam
This group of 5 LRBTs costs 1000 points on the nose.
Pask w/ Executioner PC, 2 PC, HB, SB
Tank Commander w/ Executioner PC, 2 PC, HB, SB
LR Demolisher w/ Executioner PC, 2 PC, HB, SB
LR Demolisher w/ Executioner PC, 2 PC, HB, SB
LR Demolisher w/ Executioner PC, 2 PC, HB, SB

Pask gives "Gunners Kill on Sight!" to 2 LRBT every turn. The other commander gives the order to the final LRBT.
Every round they, on average HIT with this..
19.375 PC shots : STR 7, -3 AP 1 Damage. 13.125 of those can be safely overcharged to target vehicles or other large creatures
7.75 HB hits : STR 5, -1 AP 1 damage
5.166 SB hits : STR 4, AP -, 1 damage. Double if targets are within 12".

That's an insane amount of damage. It's picking up entire enemy units each turn.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 17:14:11


 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

Ogryns take up 3 slots each, so not great. However, shotgun vets are perfect! Shotguns with str4 within 6", 3 flamers and a heavy flamer. That leaves a spot in the transport for a priest (+1 attack aura) and a Commissar. Nasty little surprise really.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





 Trickstick wrote:
Ogryns take up 3 slots each, so not great. However, shotgun vets are perfect! Shotguns with str4 within 6", 3 flamers and a heavy flamer. That leaves a spot in the transport for a priest (+1 attack aura) and a Commissar. Nasty little surprise really.


Hmm, now that you mention it, shotguns are assault weapons too. So shotgun vets actually can shoot after using MMM. Talk about a nasty surprise there, with MMM shotgun vets can have a threat range of 36" with an average of 31" (due to the average of two Advance rolls). They can just go Speedy Gonzalez across the board, shotgunning and burninating as they go.
   
 
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