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 Peregrine wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
A balanced core rules set would leave equal opportunity to melee and ranged, msu and big units, psykers and 'nulls', etc to shine.

Not necessarily. In a game like 40k shooting should dominate, because this is not WHFB in space and guns tend to beat swords. The whole concept of a "melee army" shouldn't exist at all. But you can still have balance between the various shooting-focused armies, even if melee is only present as something you do to finish off the last survivors of your shooting and melee specialists are a tiny part of the game.

Boltpistols have less muzzle velocity than a .38 special at 220 m/s, Chainswords are chainsaws attached to swords swung by superhuman astartes warriors. guns do not beat swords in the WH40K universe.

JNA - the Eldar ML's Frag equivelent is S4. The Reaper Launcher is a different weapon.

Bharring wrote:
JNA - the Eldar ML's Frag equivelent is S4. The Reaper Launcher is a different weapon.

Ah, oki. That's what I was thinking of.

I think the game was better when every faction had distinct advantages and disadvantages. Every army had a theme.

Allies changed things. Now it's Soup lists. Playing mono faction is a handicap in 8th, and if you're not Imperial, Chaos, or Eldar you're pretty much SOL.

Bharring wrote:
My point about chess is that perfect balance is an unreasonable goal. Although better balance would be a reasonable goal.

All you have to do is flip a coin at the beginning and it's a balanced game. Is Warhammer anywhere in the same neighborhood as being as balanced as chess? Are there chess players who only own the black or the white pieces?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Resipsa131 wrote:

Boltpistols have less muzzle velocity than a .38 special at 220 m/s, Chainswords are chainsaws attached to swords swung by superhuman astartes warriors. guns do not beat swords in the WH40K universe.

Bolters shoot rockets that explode, right? How does muzzle velocity matter?

Pink Horror wrote:


Bolters shoot rockets that explode, right? How does muzzle velocity matter?

Flight stability between initial projection and motor ignition.

M.

Balance according to the internet:

"Every army except for the one that I play with needs to be weaker"

If something is used against you, it's OP and needs to be toned down. If it's something they themselves use then it is trash and needs a buff.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Balance according to the internet:

"Every army except for the one that I play with needs to be weaker"

If something is used against you, it's OP and needs to be toned down. If it's something they themselves use then it is trash and needs a buff.

Seems to be the jist of it

I was on the 40k Reddit before coming back over here. Seems to me the people selling 8e on "balance" were just happy to see former top-dogs get the hard nerf. It's easy to be happy about a "balanced" edition if you get to take the guy/faction you used to chronically lose against and rub their nose in the dirt.

M.

 Infantryman wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Balance according to the internet:

"Every army except for the one that I play with needs to be weaker"

If something is used against you, it's OP and needs to be toned down. If it's something they themselves use then it is trash and needs a buff.

Seems to be the jist of it

I was on the 40k Reddit before coming back over here. Seems to me the people selling 8e on "balance" were just happy to see former top-dogs get the hard nerf. It's easy to be happy about a "balanced" edition if you get to take the guy/faction you used to chronically lose against and rub their nose in the dirt.

M.

Very much so. One of my long time gaming friends used to abuse Long Fang spam at the peak of the SW codex when it first came out, my CSM lost every game against them for a while - some were close but I could never overcome thunderwolf lords backed by missle spam, circle of the game and then Heldrakes with 360 degree flamers and suddenly roast puppies were on the menu. We laughed about it and he would say "well, yeah that was coming"

If you want true balance, play chess... oh but wait.. white always goes first? Needs a nerf! The nature of 40k, you always have some units that are better than others. You will always have one faction have a unit that does something better for cheaper in one particular area. That's what gives each faction their flavour, otherwise why even have codexes. Everyone should just play with the same stat line regardless of the models, but even then I am absolutely sure that some people on this forum will find something to complain about