What movies have you seen with plotholes/technical/strategic issues?

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**BobtheInquisitor**

I get where you're coming from, and feel that I likely enjoyed the film for a few of the same reasons you did. However, I find that plot, or rather the writing in general when it is bad enough, can overpower the other aspects. All of the angles and the best editing tempo in the world can't "save Martha".

**Gordon Shumway**

I completely agree (not with your ultimate conclusion but the premise). Every aspect needs to work together to create a cohesive whole. A lot of the plot holes listed above, I don't really think are plot holes (scripts make a lot of them a lot more clear where they were coming from or trying to achieve), but other bad aspects of movie making. That said, have you ever read the original script of CK? It's hilarious. Aliens is another good original script. Star Wars is more stomach churning than good, but it is interesting. Out of the three fellas that walked out of that school on the same day, Lucas definitely had the most to try to overcome. Edit: that was not to imply that the three movies mentioned above were out of the same school, for those pendacticts in the audience.

**JohnHwangDD**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I get where you're coming from, and feel that I likely enjoyed the film for a few of the same reasons you did. However, I find that plot, or rather the writing in general when it is bad enough, can overpower the other aspects. All of the angles and the best editing tempo in the world can't "save Martha".

"Martha"? Crap. Now I have to check and see if MovieBob has completed part 3 of his magnum opus Really That Bad.
____

He has!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwxDLdXALc

*sigh* Need to find another hour+ to watch that and hope it wraps things up.

**AndrewGPaul**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
People are missing the Citizen Kane of plot holes here. How does anybody know what Kane's last words were? Leave it to Citizen Kane to have the Citizen Kane of all plot holes. Interestingly, from looking at the above films, I've noticed that plot holes have nothing at all to do with whether one likes a movie or not. Or whether one considers it "good". One could extend the idea to suggest that plot isn't really all that important when it comes to move tastes. That, I view as a good thing.

The butler was in the room and heard the words, did you even watch the movie?

There was no butler. A nurse came in after he died. A cool reverse angle deep focus wide angle shot reflecting the nurse coming in. She might have heard it. Chances are she heard the globe crashing down. Did you watch it? He says the word, and dies. She comes in. She lays his hands across his chest. Fade to black. "News on the March" begins. No butler. It's been the lol #plothole of cinema for the past 60 years. Where have you been? Want a refresher? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-r0b_XeRkG4

One suggestion is that that scene is from the butler's POV; you don't see him in the room because you're looking through his eyes. That sounds like a subsequent rationalisation rather than a deliberate act on Welles' part, though.

**Cheesecat**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
People are missing the Citizen Kane of plot holes here. How does anybody know what Kane's last words were? Leave it to Citizen Kane to have the Citizen Kane of all plot holes. Interestingly, from looking at the above films, I've noticed that plot holes have nothing at all to do with whether one likes a movie or not. Or whether one considers it "good". One could extend the idea to suggest that plot isn't really all that important when it comes to move tastes. That, I view as a good thing.

The butler was in the room and heard the words, did you even watch the movie?

There was no butler. A nurse came in after he died. A cool reverse angle deep focus wide angle shot reflecting the nurse coming in. She might have heard it. Chances are she heard the globe crashing down. Did you watch it? He says the word, and dies. She comes in. She lays his hands across his chest. Fade to black. "News on the March" begins. No butler. It's been the lol #plothole of cinema for the past 60 years. Where have you been? Want a refresher? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-r0b_XeRkG4

Edit: I should probably follow up on my earlier point about why plot doesn't matter to me and why I view people not caring about holes as a good thing. I am a formalist. Other art forms (the novel) have better techniques of conveying plot. It's not that I don't think plot is unimportant in a movie, it's just one of the least interesting aspects of a movie to me. Plop any kid down in front of pretty much any movie, they will get the plot. Will they see why the camera angles, or the costume design or the editing tempo or sound design plays a role or how it affects them? Probably not. That is what I find interesting. I'm weird though.

They establish the butler heard his last words though (see below) and we know he's telling the truth because we as the audience watch him speak his last words on camera. Unless you have 360 degree view of the room as he uttered the words "Rosebud" you can't be 100% sure the

butler wasn't in the room, never mind the camera could have been first person perspective (from the butler) during that time (meaning you wouldn't see him).

"...I heard him say it that other time too. He just said 'Rosebud', then he dropped the glass ball and it broke on the floor."

01:51:37 (1hr51min37secs) (According to the timecode on the Blu-ray release)

**BobtheInquisitor**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
I completely agree (not with your ultimate conclusion but the premise). Every aspect needs to work together to create a cohesive whole. A lot of the plot holes listed above, I don't really think are plot holes (scripts make a lot of them a lot more clear where they were coming from or trying to achieve), but other bad aspects of movie making. That said, have you ever read the original script of CK? It's hilarious. Aliens is another good original script. Star Wars is more stomach churning than good, but it is interesting. Out of the three fellas that walked out of that school on the same day, Lucas definitely had the most to try to overcome. Edit: that was not to imply that the three movies mentioned above were out of the same school, for those pendacticts in the audience.

For some reason, I thought we were in the TLJ thread. Most of the plot holes in this thread are indeed smaller, less intrusive holes in film so good that people easily overlook them. Likely each person has his or her own threshold for what they are willing to overlook in terms of plot holes, and their own sense of how the rest of the film aspect cohere to make the film.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

dogma wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Also, the soldiers use MP 40 submachine guns throughout the movie, despite it being set two years before it was designed and four years before it was put into production.

It would be hard to justify the production of MP 36 and MP 38 props when you're already sitting on a ton of WWII equivalents.

The MP36 was a prototype that never made it into production, so no soldier would have anything that resembles an MP38/40 in 1936.

**Snake Tortoise**

The Halloween series. If you lived in Haddonfield (and especially if you were related to Michael Myers) you wouldn't stay there for Halloween, you'd go away for a few days every year. I suppose that's less of a plot hole and more just dumb decision making by the protagonists, which applies to practically every horror movie. In zombie movies (or TWD) where the zombies don't run it's a wonder anybody actually dies.

**sirlynchmob**

Snake Tortoise wrote:
The Halloween series. If you lived in Haddonfield (and especially if you were related to Michael Myers) you wouldn't stay there for Halloween, you'd go away for a few days every year. I suppose that's less of a plot hole and more just dumb decision making by the protagonists, which applies to practically every horror movie. In zombie movies (or TWD) where the zombies don't run it's a wonder anybody actually dies.

speaking of horror movies, don't date Ash (bruce the man campbell)

Evil dead 1, he takes his gf to a cabin and everyone but him dies. he comes back talking about demons.
Evil dead 2, tired of his current gf, he takes her to the same cabin, everyone dies, he comes back talking about demons.

Don't go to a cabin with demons, he's a psychopath

**JohnHwangDD**

I started in on this elsewhere, but Prometheus should be called out here, along with Highlander 2...

**welshhoppo**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I started in on this elsewhere, but Prometheus should be called out here, along with Highlander 2...

Nah Alien Covenant gets a bigger say.

Nothing would have happened if they followed BASIC PROCEDURE and wore frigging masks!