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I wouldn't take the chaos sorcerer lord at all, he just isn't worth 160 points. Sidegrade to a Rotbringer Sorc and use the points to bump the marauders to 35. Warriors are strong in this list because the ease at which they can be a multiple of 7.

I wouldn't change anything else, it would put you at I think...1950? Don't have the GHB in front of me. For 50 points you could take a chaos spawn but honestly I think the triumph roll is worth more than that. Imagine being able to re-roll hits in a turn blades is up, or re-rolling woundssaves on the blightking unit in a critical combat. In my last tournament I used a triumph roll on hits for a 3-man stormfiend unit and wiped out an entire unit of 30 tzaangors in one go.

I agree. Maybe I'm trying to force a change because I wish I had done better. I went back and re-watched the game that was streamed on twitch against Mike Scalettis's bloodbound and If I played a LITTLE bit smarter I could have won! Would have put me in the championship game! I learned the hard way that inspiring presence should be used on the marauders if I'm unlikely going to get a charge and if blades doesn't go off. I defaulted to Lords of Nurgle https://www.twitch.tv/videos/242723909

I did like how Chaos sorcerer's demonic power tended to make glotkin more consistent. His tentacle attack hitting on 4's can be (in a manner of speaking) hit or miss. In that game I was talking about on the stream, I REALLY needed foul regenesis to go off, but I failed it. When glotkin went to attack the JuggerLord in combat his tentacle missed 4 times with three ones!!! I was so mad the one turn he didnt have demonic power I needed it the most. I also had given him the Dirge which in conjunction with glotkins horrific opponent rule was consistently making units -2 to hit....

But the sorcerer can grab the muttergrub and cast 2 spells a turn which is very powerful. Guaranteed one foul Regen roll per turn. Cant take a chaos spawn as they have STD and Tzeentch keywords. NOVA does NOT allow for triumph rolls.

If I keep the warriors and drop the rat priest, chaos sorcerer that's 250 points to play with. I could grab

1. poxbringer with favoured poxes (Tome of 1000 poxes/witherstave) and Sorcerer (muttergrub)

2. Festus to run behind glotty and 100 point StD leader to carry the Dirge. The d3 heal is great but seems less optimal then the rat priest gimmick to kickback mortals on 5s

Or

Keep the rat priest and switch CSl for Sorc with muttergrub, bump marauders to 35 and be down 30.

Why not swap the sorc lord for a poxbringer with witherstave? Split the 10-man blightking unit to fill the slots.

Dissapointed tournaments aren't allowing spawn to be given any mark due to obvious RAI. Going strict RAW isn't an excuse since no tournaments are run that way.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Why not swap the sorc lord for a poxbringer with witherstave? Split the 10-man blightking unit to fill the slots.

Dissapointed tournaments aren't allowing spawn to be given any mark due to obvious RAI. Going strict RAW isn't an excuse since no tournaments are run that way.

I dont know why they made the spawn a tzeentch only thing.. it makes no sense. ALL the chaos gods can make spawn. I'm also disappointed NOVA doesn't allow triumphs. Its a great balancing mechanic for under-pointed armies.

I had considered that! But the 10x kings drop in with gutrot. I absolutely love that group. They eff with opponents heads deployment wise, add an element of doubt, and have a 42% chance of instant charge! 5 kings I don't think offers that fear factor or enough staying power if the opponent decides to be careless and leave an opening in the back field [evil laughter].

I could replace the warriors with more marauders! 35 marauders is more wounds and attacks, better blades potential (barbarian hordes built in rule) and is 70 points cheaper.

Leaders
The Glottkin
- General
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction

Gutrot Spume

Sorcerer
- Artefact: Muttergrub

-Plague Priest with Plague Censer

Poxbringer Herald of Nurgle
- Artefact: The Witherstave


10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)

28 x Chaos Marauders (180)

35 x Chaos Marauders (200)

Plaguetouched Warband (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Wounds: 191!!!!!!!!!

That seems pretty strong to me.

In regards to the spawn thing, it's a technicality produced because the DoT battletome had the spawn warscroll in it (obviously for easy access due to a number of abilities that create them) and naturally made it Tzeentch-marked on the warscroll because Tzeentch battletome. However, because that is now the most up-to-date warscroll all spawn TECHNICALLY default to that one, making them all Tzeentch. Of course this is ridiculous and RAI is clearly that spawn can be any mark, but some people decide to enforce that in the name of RAW. That would be fine if they were actually interested in running AoS purely RAW but they aren't, and no tournament ever is. I'm not talking about house rules either, there is stuff that people simply take for granted that ins't RAW simply because the RAI is clear. So if a tournament is disallowing non-Tzeentch spawn in the name of 'RAW' feel free to call them hypocrites.

Well that clears it up! That is really dumb though. Thanks for letting me bounce ideas around!

That's what the thread is for

Hey, Ninth! Brain picking time. My friends and I enjoy making truly rotten lists. Nastier the better. Anyway...thoughts on this:

Glottkin (General), blades of putrification
Lord of Afflictions (whitherstave)
Gutrot Spume with 10 blightkings
6 plague drones
30 plaguebearers
30 marauders (couldn’t make 20 pts for the extra 10)

Should hit 2k on the dot, plus Gnarlmaws popping up. The drones get an ungodly boost to attacks from the Glottkin and the LoA being nearby, and the Glottkin (and Gutrot with his raiders in the backfield) make for two killer “Distraction Carnifexes” when the real terror is the 6 flies that will mulch anything they hit. Backed up by two hard to shift infantry units due to the plaguebearers’ “regen” and the marauders getting double sounds from Glottkin spell. There are three big horrifying units that can all crank out a lot of hurt.

It's a good list, but not a particularly OP one if that's what you're going for. At a tourney level it's going to have problems with objectives & board control because you simply don't have that many units. Since you have a heavy investment into drones going a full 10-man with gutrot depletes your front line of model count and leaves it vulnerable to being outflanked or even surrounded. The marauders are some help in this regard but without inspiring presence or fleshy abundance they will be vaporized in short order due to battleshock. But the biggest issue is probably target priority. You cannot afford to lose the Lord of Afflictions or Glottkin, so the opponent has a readily available strategy of killing one of them to leave your list significantly weakened.

Now again the list isn't BAD by any means, it looks like you understand the strengths already. But going off your first statement it seems you are going for the cheese front.

In regards to making it better, without going into significant changes you could strengthen it a good deal by splitting the blightking unit in two to run 5 alongside glottkin & LoA (remember the latter's re-roll benefit) and splitting the marauder unit into 10s for objective camping.

Well, I don’t travel for tournaments. Just basically strong pick-up games. And I tend to swap around which Chaos army I use (I have all 4 gods). Plus I wanted to work with models that I have and don’t need to buy more (I’m on a spending freeze til Slaanesh returns in full glory). I have all the stuff to do that for this list. I do have a Harbinger conversion ready to go though.

So yeah. Tough pickup games. I like to play hard, and I like to strain my brain on the list building. I don’t have the Everchosen stuff, nor any plague monks. I’m also converting up the LoA and I’ll be converting a BoN, have Bloab, a GUO, Nurgle Princes, ‘grinders, and another 20 PBs. Rot Sorc too.

Ah, I see. In that case going with that list plus the changes I mentioned should perform as you want it to then.

And yeah, fleshy abundance for the marauders was part of the plan. The intent was to make the flies look like the least threatening thing...until they hit like a sack of bricks. I’ll definitely consider dropping into 3 units of 10 and the two units of Blightkings though!!

Well the deal with the flies is people will figure out quick how much damage they do, but Glottkin & the LoA will still be priority targets anyways since either one dead is shaving attacks off the drones. Fleshy abundance is way better on plaguebearers, no reason to cast it on marauders if there are plaguebearers around.

Timetowaste85,

I would be hard pressed for someone to come up with a cheesy list for Nurgle. It’s just such a great battletome. Are there things I would change..ABSOLUTLEY.but if you are looking to make a just nasty Hard list..please let us know because I can’t find it. It’s a very balanced book!

Are you kidding? Just spam blightkings in a plaguetouched battalion. Harbinger, seven units of blightkings, plaguetouched, GUO with bell, bloab. That's just something thrown together without any thought to it and it would curb stomp probably 3/4 armies outside of tournaments. Or just take your tournament list for example (remember, if it's doing well at AoS tourneys it's almost certainly cheese, because that is what tourney AoS is made of).

I mean it isn't like showing up with skryrefyre, kroak bomb, fotm Tzeentch, etc, but comparing to the likes of that near everything comes up short.

From the other side of the table.

How does one beat Nurlge? They are resilient also with high wound counts GUO/Glotkin/Rottigus, *fast when used properly, and just generally tough to beat down.

I presume pick one unit and kill it as hard as possible, but when swarming objectives and having to split across the board bringing more of your army to bear on an isolated Nurlge is hella tough.

Thanks chaps!

As always the specific context of what you have vs what they have really matters. That said, I can give some advice.

-Prioritize killing characters. Nurgle units perform well on their own on average but are limited in what they can actually do without character support. Performing well in the 'tank and do melee' department is good but can often lose scenarios or being taken apart piecemeal.

-Identify the offense. Nurgle struggles with offense and anything you can do to exacerbate that is likely to be a solid tactical option. Sometimes the offense will be specific hard hitting units, but other times it could be a character throwing out a good command ability or spell (which ties into the above).

-Identify the mobility. Again, Nurgle struggles in this area and anything you can do to exacerbate that is likely a good idea. Keep an eye out for where trees are that grant run & charge, which units are going to be within 7" of a bell GUO at the start of their movement phase, and which units actually have decent move speed.

That said, the absolutely biggest thing I can say is pounce on your opponents' movement mistakes. Because ironically the most important thing to a Nurgle army is how it's moved around on the battlefield. Nurgle is strongest when the whole army is arranged in a 'battle line' where units can't be isolated and surrounded. But if you can catch units on their own then you can focus them down and kill them before the rest of the army gets there to lend a hand. This is doubly true with Nurgle's newer movement shenanigans; I barely use the run & charge feature from trees because it means some units will surge ahead while others are left behind. For that matter not only to I rarely get the charge off with Nurgle but I actively avoid putting myself in situations where I need to. If you are playing a Nurgle opponent and they are willing to charge you, let them. It will separate their army up and let you dismantle it piecemeal. Players are often especially reckless with the likes of a GUO or Glottkin, unaware of just how fast those models will go down if caught on their own. Also note how often I stress in my Nurgle advice to always have characters sit next to or between other units.

Thanks @Ninth!

I have a competitive game tonight vs a friend who plays something like:

GUO w/ Bell
Glottkin
Pox Scrivener
2x30 Plaugebearers
1x15 Blightkings



Whilst I run a Hammer/Anvil Stormcast Eternals list.

I don't want to distract from your original intention for the thread so I wont go into detail, however knowing how other armies will attempt to take on the Maggotkin is possibly advantageous to know as well.

Essentially I run defensive Liberators, with debuffing Relictor -1 to hits on the respective charging enemy, Castellant warding lantern and staunch defender. After the initial *tanking I then Hammerstrike with Retributors/Protectors & Stardrake in support.

So when it comes to isolation and target priority my main concern is getting bogged down in Plaugebearers and Blightkings. Specifically not being able to disentangle myself from them in order to target the GUO/Glottkin. Or indeed have my Liberators hold on for long enough whilst the rest of my army is elsewhere.

Its different if your jumping over the frontline to deal with a 5-6 wound buff character like a Bloodsecrator. But when you come face to face with a 16-18 wound GUO/Glottkin (Who by the way has the horrible 2D6 shooting attack) the whole battle looks very bleak.

This with looking to keep Objectives in mind.

Thanks in advance, as your advice is always spot on!

Take two retributors to make sure you get the -1 to hit penalty off on the blightjings. Or tempestors if you have em. Do whatever it takes to get a hit penalty on that blightking unit. Blightkings at -1 to hit are honestly pathetic at dealing damage since they can't trigger their 1d6 hits on 6s anymore. You can also use a hit penalty to shut down blades of putrifaction. With the Blightkings nerfed he doesn't really have any offense. Even should he split the blightkings into separate units (which he should be doing) his issue against stormcast is going to be a serious lack of rend. He -needs- Glottkin alive to make this list work, for the bonus attacks and blades of putrefaction. I would however many judicators you have (bows, obviously) and camp them behind the buffed liberators and just shoot glottkin until he's dead.

If you can apply hit penalties where you need them and kill Glottkin before his third turn everything else will probably fall into place.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Take two retributors to make sure you get the -1 to hit penalty off on the blightjings. Or tempestors if you have em. Do whatever it takes to get a hit penalty on that blightking unit. Blightkings at -1 to hit are honestly pathetic at dealing damage since they can't trigger their 1d6 hits on 6s anymore. You can also use a hit penalty to shut down blades of putrifaction. With the Blightkings nerfed he doesn't really have any offense. Even should he split the blightkings into separate units (which he should be doing) his issue against stormcast is going to be a serious lack of rend. He -needs- Glottkin alive to make this list work, for the bonus attacks and blades of putrefaction. I would however many judicators you have (bows, obviously) and camp them behind the buffed liberators and just shoot glottkin until he's dead.

If you can apply hit penalties where you need them and kill Glottkin before his third turn everything else will probably fall into place.

Thanks Ninth.

Good point on the Blightkings, Blighted weapons are somewhat useless without that! A simple 3+ Lightning Storm prayer and that's gone. In fact their weapon profile with no rend, starts to look quite poor. I take two Relictor's in my list so this feels ok.

Afraid no Judicators, so It'll be down to the Paladins and Stardrake to take out the Glottkin.

Will update you tomorrow with my finding's and battlereport!

This is why I'm not a fan of blight kings, or competitive nurgle armies in general. My blight kings rarely get to do much because without rend they are only really successful at taking on lightly armored targets, and a smart opponent will just remove their ability to trigger bonus hits.

(I don't run them as a big mass unit because of that, I break them down into multiple units so at least you have to use multiple debuffs)

Hit penalties are a hard counter to blightkings, but one that most armies don't have in significant enough amounts to be an issue. That is unless all the blightkings are blobbed into one unit. The lack to rend makes armor a soft counter, which is why a competitive Nurgle army will want to diversify. Take Salamander's list for example, obviously it is reliant on blightkings but it also brings more than one source of mortal wounds which balances it out.

I put up a *rushed battle report in the AOS forum as well as on my plog.

Needless to say. Things did not go well.

I've been stealth-adding entries to 'The Bad' over the last few weeks and just added the last few. Thankfully this section is much shorter than the previous!

I was thinking

Are the chosen so bad? They dont appear in any tournament list :(

I know that blightkings are very cheap for their number of wounds. But a lot of armies have some -1 to hit, so their ability of make 1d6 extra hits, and blades of putrefaction are annulled.

However, chosens are our best source of mortals. With a skaven priest and fecund vigour they can do mortals at 4+, also they can give to other chosens rerolls to wound..

What is your opinion?
Any advice to use them?

There's a paragraph on using Chosen in the first post that should have the information you're looking for

yeah i read it . (Thanks for your work)

But some aditional tip?

Better give him and offensive ability as glottkin extra atacks? or defensive as harbringer of decay?

Defensive. They already hit really hard and they cost a lot per wound.

Any updates to this in light of AoS2?

The rules for AOS 2 combined with the point changes haven't been released to us yet so coming up with powergaming strategies is going to take a bit and will require the points to calculate efficiencies before we can update.

Though a new thread on nurgle for AOS 2.0 would be welcome.