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grouchoben wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
It is not, and in it's current form, will never be a top table codex. It's not even worth a detachment, you are hindering yourself by including a TS detachment.

Oh I don't know - an outrider detachment, for example, could leverage 1kSons pretty nicely -


++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [35 PL, 729pts] ++
+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: 5. Otherworldly Prescience, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Helm of the Third Eye, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings
+ Elites +
Tzaangor Shaman [5 PL, 90pts]: Force stave
+ Fast Attack +
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows

That many Enlightened would drop Magnus in 1 round; you gain access to Chaos' only CP farm & Death Hex; every unit has 12" move; you've bought 28 40mm bases, so lots of board control; your shooting can't be stopped by being tied up in CC; and you've got some pretty nice CC of your own to boot.

On the downside, having to paint 27 Enlightened would send you utterly mad.

Looks good. I still think fatecasters are a tad to weak. Id like to see one more AP on them for the price. Then again I run spear enlightened so I have yet to use fatecasters.

grouchoben wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
It is not, and in it's current form, will never be a top table codex. It's not even worth a detachment, you are hindering yourself by including a TS detachment.

Oh I don't know - an outrider detachment, for example, could leverage 1kSons pretty nicely -


++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [35 PL, 729pts] ++
+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: 5. Otherworldly Prescience, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Helm of the Third Eye, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings
+ Elites +
Tzaangor Shaman [5 PL, 90pts]: Force stave
+ Fast Attack +
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows
Tzaangor Enlightened [7 PL, 153pts]: Aviarch, 8x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows

That many Enlightened would drop Magnus in 1 round; you gain access to Chaos' only CP farm & Death Hex; every unit has 12" move; you've bought 28 40mm bases, so lots of board control; your shooting can't be stopped by being tied up in CC; and you've got some pretty nice CC of your own to boot.

On the downside, having to paint 27 Enlightened would send you utterly mad.

the fluff fan in me notes the total lack of actual thousand sons in that list and cries

I'd probably add Ahriman to that detachment. It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd probably add Ahriman to that detachment. It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

In fairness though thats often a curse of marine armies in general. The ONLY time I can recall seeing folks since I started in 5th taking for example a "3 tac squads 1 assault 1 devestator" core was in 7th with formations.

and during 6th/7th codex chaos marines was refered to as "codex helldrakes and cultists"

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd probably add Ahriman to that detachment. It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

As Brian above me noted this is a wide spread problem with marines in general and affects all flavors of them. For a bit of time at the end of 7th GW had to give free razorbacks when taking a tactical squad of marines as part of a formation. It was a great formation and actually saw many top tables but it was not because of the tacticals but the razorbacks.

That being said I think there is a bit of hyperbole when dealing with the MEQ statline infantry. The problem is compounded in this edition because 6's are wounds. This means it is better to have 30 las guns than 10 bolters seeing as both cant threaten harder targets beyond rolling a 6. So im afraid a massive price drop is in order and I am pretty sure GW will never do that. My point in this rambling is that expect this to be a ongoing problem with the game.

I myself run rubrics just for fluff and that I love the models. I am never under the impression that they will make their points back (sometimes they do something cool) and mostly use them to anchor a defense. So yea, long live the Thousand Gors.

Table wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd probably add Ahriman to that detachment. It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

As Brian above me noted this is a wide spread problem with marines in general and affects all flavors of them. For a bit of time at the end of 7th GW had to give free razorbacks when taking a tactical squad of marines as part of a formation. It was a great formation and actually saw many top tables but it was not because of the tacticals but the razorbacks.

That being said I think there is a bit of hyperbole when dealing with the MEQ statline infantry. The problem is compounded in this edition because 6's are wounds. This means it is better to have 30 las guns than 10 bolters seeing as both cant threaten harder targets beyond rolling a 6. So im afraid a massive price drop is in order and I am pretty sure GW will never do that. My point in this rambling is that expect this to be a ongoing problem with the game.

I myself run rubrics just for fluff and that I love the models. I am never under the impression that they will make their points back (sometimes they do something cool) and mostly use them to anchor a defense. So yea, long live the Thousand Gors.

I think the problem is more due to a pre ponderance of hard targets then anything else. It'd be intreasting to see how things would change if the standard etachment was 2-3 HQs. 3-6 troops.0-1 fast attack. 0-1 heavy etc

BrianDavion wrote:

Table wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd probably add Ahriman to that detachment. It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

As Brian above me noted this is a wide spread problem with marines in general and affects all flavors of them. For a bit of time at the end of 7th GW had to give free razorbacks when taking a tactical squad of marines as part of a formation. It was a great formation and actually saw many top tables but it was not because of the tacticals but the razorbacks.

That being said I think there is a bit of hyperbole when dealing with the MEQ statline infantry. The problem is compounded in this edition because 6's are wounds. This means it is better to have 30 las guns than 10 bolters seeing as both cant threaten harder targets beyond rolling a 6. So im afraid a massive price drop is in order and I am pretty sure GW will never do that. My point in this rambling is that expect this to be a ongoing problem with the game.

I myself run rubrics just for fluff and that I love the models. I am never under the impression that they will make their points back (sometimes they do something cool) and mostly use them to anchor a defense. So yea, long live the Thousand Gors.

I think the problem is more due to a pre ponderance of hard targets then anything else. It'd be intreasting to see how things would change if the standard etachment was 2-3 HQs. 3-6 troops.0-1 fast attack. 0-1 heavy etc

I agree that it is a problem but I do not expect that to ever happen as it would hamper model sales. IMHO the best bet is a big point drop OR a buff to the basic bolter of +1 str and 1 ap. Of course warpbolters would have to be buffed as well.

Lets say Rubric marines did get a points drop for a moment, and went down to say 18ppm with the heavy weapons being reduced in pts as well say by 5.

Would Rubrics then be considered a good option at that stage?.

I ask as the biggest complaint with Rubrics from what I can gather is the cost, so if they went down (Which could happen easily). At that stage they could then be a better option.

Sure I can understand the aspiring sorcs views as well, no one wants to perils from effectively a sergeant, though I personally think it adds to the fun and the theme of a psychic dominate army

Shinzra wrote:
Would Rubrics then be considered a good option at that stage?.

Yes, they would.

In order to function properly, Thousand Sons need at least 9CP. For that you need 2 Bataillons. Saving 40 or 60pts (because, imo, Scarabs also need to drop by 4pts) gives us 1 or 2 troop units (Cultists, Horrors) to fill the second Bataillon, if you were running 20 Rubrics and 5 Scarabs to begin with. That's huge.

Reducing Warpflamers by 3 to 5pts would also help greatly, just like allowing the Soulreaper to be used in 5-men squads. At this stage, Rubrics would be a decent (but not broken) choice in Thousand Sons armies.

Shinzra wrote:
Sure I can understand the aspiring sorcs views as well, no one wants to perils from effectively a sergeant, though I personally think it adds to the fun and the theme of a psychic dominate army

I've played tons of games with my Thousand Sons and I can tell you one thing : Perils of the warp are *not* fun. When you run 8 or 9 Psykers, one of them Perils every other turn, taking with him a hefty part of your army if you don't have any CP left. Other armies don't have to worry about that. They can use their CP freely.

What's worse is that GW balanced every spells around the buffs that we could potentially have. Miasma of Pestilence (Nurgle) is WC6 because Death Guard has no +1 to Psychic powers. The exact same power for Thousand Sons (Glamour of Tzeentch) is WC7. Plague Wind is WC5 while Tzeentch Firestorm is WC7. This is nonsense truly.

And to add insult to the injury, Psychic powers can be denied, while Orders cannot and don't even have to roll a die in order to work...

I think making the AS's peril only affect him, and restoring Soulreaper @ 5 man MSU, keeping the current points cost, would be a straight forward solution.

 Nym wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
Would Rubrics then be considered a good option at that stage?.

Yes, they would.

In order to function properly, Thousand Sons need at least 9CP. For that you need 2 Bataillons. Saving 40 or 60pts (because, imo, Scarabs also need to drop by 4pts) gives us 1 or 2 troop units (Cultists, Horrors) to fill the second Bataillon, if you were running 20 Rubrics and 5 Scarabs to begin with. That's huge.

Reducing Warpflamers by 3 to 5pts would also help greatly, just like allowing the Soulreaper to be used in 5-men squads. At this stage, Rubrics would be a decent (but not broken) choice in Thousand Sons armies.

Shinzra wrote:
Sure I can understand the aspiring sorcs views as well, no one wants to perils from effectively a sergeant, though I personally think it adds to the fun and the theme of a psychic dominate army

I've played tons of games with my Thousand Sons and I can tell you one thing : Perils of the warp are *not* fun. When you run 8 or 9 Psykers, one of them Perils every other turn, taking with him a hefty part of your army if you don't have any CP left. Other armies don't have to worry about that. They can use their CP freely.

What's worse is that GW balanced every spells around the buffs that we could potentially have. Miasma of Pestilence (Nurgle) is WC6 because Death Guard has no +1 to Psychic powers. The exact same power for Thousand Sons (Glamour of Tzeentch) is WC7. Plague Wind is WC5 while Tzeentch Firestorm is WC7. This is nonsense truly.

And to add insult to the injury, Psychic powers can be denied, while Orders cannot and don't even have to roll a die in order to work...

Yes, they whole thing GW has with giving Tzeentch powers extra WC targets because some of the casters have a potential +1 is pure , i dunno, insanity. Between that and the soulripper fiasco hints that GW creative are not trying to hard with this codex. And that is our codex in a nutshell, a awesome faction with a fun codex that is bleed out by dozens of little cuts like above. I do not expect much of this to change to be honest so I am just resigned to "chaos tax". Ive been used to paying it since the beginning of 7th.

So where does everyone put this codex so far in terms of its level with the other released codex armies, what tier do they fall into?

Shinzra wrote:
So where does everyone put this codex so far in terms of its level with the other released codex armies, what tier do they fall into?

Slap-dab in the middle.

Table wrote:

 Nym wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
Would Rubrics then be considered a good option at that stage?.

Yes, they would.

In order to function properly, Thousand Sons need at least 9CP. For that you need 2 Bataillons. Saving 40 or 60pts (because, imo, Scarabs also need to drop by 4pts) gives us 1 or 2 troop units (Cultists, Horrors) to fill the second Bataillon, if you were running 20 Rubrics and 5 Scarabs to begin with. That's huge.

Reducing Warpflamers by 3 to 5pts would also help greatly, just like allowing the Soulreaper to be used in 5-men squads. At this stage, Rubrics would be a decent (but not broken) choice in Thousand Sons armies.

Shinzra wrote:
Sure I can understand the aspiring sorcs views as well, no one wants to perils from effectively a sergeant, though I personally think it adds to the fun and the theme of a psychic dominate army

I've played tons of games with my Thousand Sons and I can tell you one thing : Perils of the warp are *not* fun. When you run 8 or 9 Psykers, one of them Perils every other turn, taking with him a hefty part of your army if you don't have any CP left. Other armies don't have to worry about that. They can use their CP freely.

What's worse is that GW balanced every spells around the buffs that we could potentially have. Miasma of Pestilence (Nurgle) is WC6 because Death Guard has no +1 to Psychic powers. The exact same power for Thousand Sons (Glamour of Tzeentch) is WC7. Plague Wind is WC5 while Tzeentch Firestorm is WC7. This is nonsense truly.

And to add insult to the injury, Psychic powers can be denied, while Orders cannot and don't even have to roll a die in order to work...

Yes, they whole thing GW has with giving Tzeentch powers extra WC targets because some of the casters have a potential +1 is pure , i dunno, insanity. Between that and the soulripper fiasco hints that GW creative are not trying to hard with this codex. And that is our codex in a nutshell, a awesome faction with a fun codex that is bleed out by dozens of little cuts like above. I do not expect much of this to change to be honest so I am just resigned to "chaos tax". Ive been used to paying it since the beginning of 7th.

These guys are preaching right to the choir. I'll never understand how orders/acts of faith are free without recourse, ie. can't deny, but powers that do the same, or less, can be denied and potentially kill our troops with perils. How are point costs balanced with any of that in mind? I just don't see it.

This isn't even touching on the imbalances of Rubrics/SOT vs. other faction troops. More durability and damage in Nurgle, better Invuln on clowns that shoot better and cost less, Flamer demons are disproportionately cheaper than Flamer Rubrics, etc. The army, despite the new codex, still needs adjustments to put it in line with overall balance.

If only 1KS weren't so pretty or cool. Some days I wish I played Eldar. I'm a spell slinger so those are the armies that motivate me to play/hobby.

Zodd1888 wrote:

Table wrote:

 Nym wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
Would Rubrics then be considered a good option at that stage?.

Yes, they would.

In order to function properly, Thousand Sons need at least 9CP. For that you need 2 Bataillons. Saving 40 or 60pts (because, imo, Scarabs also need to drop by 4pts) gives us 1 or 2 troop units (Cultists, Horrors) to fill the second Bataillon, if you were running 20 Rubrics and 5 Scarabs to begin with. That's huge.

Reducing Warpflamers by 3 to 5pts would also help greatly, just like allowing the Soulreaper to be used in 5-men squads. At this stage, Rubrics would be a decent (but not broken) choice in Thousand Sons armies.

Shinzra wrote:
Sure I can understand the aspiring sorcs views as well, no one wants to perils from effectively a sergeant, though I personally think it adds to the fun and the theme of a psychic dominate army

I've played tons of games with my Thousand Sons and I can tell you one thing : Perils of the warp are *not* fun. When you run 8 or 9 Psykers, one of them Perils every other turn, taking with him a hefty part of your army if you don't have any CP left. Other armies don't have to worry about that. They can use their CP freely.

What's worse is that GW balanced every spells around the buffs that we could potentially have. Miasma of Pestilence (Nurgle) is WC6 because Death Guard has no +1 to Psychic powers. The exact same power for Thousand Sons (Glamour of Tzeentch) is WC7. Plague Wind is WC5 while Tzeentch Firestorm is WC7. This is nonsense truly.

And to add insult to the injury, Psychic powers can be denied, while Orders cannot and don't even have to roll a die in order to work...

Yes, they whole thing GW has with giving Tzeentch powers extra WC targets because some of the casters have a potential +1 is pure , i dunno, insanity. Between that and the soulripper fiasco hints that GW creative are not trying to hard with this codex. And that is our codex in a nutshell, a awesome faction with a fun codex that is bleed out by dozens of little cuts like above. I do not expect much of this to change to be honest so I am just resigned to "chaos tax". Ive been used to paying it since the beginning of 7th.

These guys are preaching right to the choir. I'll never understand how orders/acts of faith are free without recourse, ie. can't deny, but powers that do the same, or less, can be denied and potentially kill our troops with perils. How are point costs balanced with any of that in mind? I just don't see it.

This isn't even touching on the imbalances of Rubrics/SOT vs. other faction troops. More durability and damage in Nurgle, better Invuln on clowns that shoot better and cost less, Flamer demons are disproportionately cheaper than Flamer Rubrics, etc. The army, despite the new codex, still needs adjustments to put it in line with overall balance.

If only 1KS weren't so pretty or cool. Some days I wish I played Eldar. I'm a spell slinger so those are the armies that motivate me to play/hobby.

I know, guard may be top choice atm but Eldar have had a long history of being very good despite edition changes. You can always expect a Eldar codex to preform. If only I liked elves.....but those 15 pnt warpflamers bro! See, now im just salty. I gotta stop.

After playing a few games my impression is that the Codex is not terrible, certainly there were a lost of missed opportunity, and this codex really feels much more rushed than any other codex. Let me start by saying I am not one of the people that hate the Gors, I actually really like them and like the fact that our army is not just CSM, but rubric. I love rubrics too, but having the Gors makes this codex feel unique. The Gor units are also all pointed very fairly in my opinion. Also I like that we have basically 12 spells to pick from for most of our HQs, and I like the daemon princes being better and having 18 spells. We have some really good relics too, so that works well. The stratagems are good, deep strike is nice, and we have 3 good warlord traits for Daemon Princes, and one for casts (+1 to cast). Arhimin is still good, I like the spell familar for the Terminator Sorcerer. Most of the spells are pretty good except warp charge cost (more on that in a bit) and allowing the Aspiring sorcerer the ability to cast more than smite is nice. These are really all of the positives to me, but I think this codex could have been so much better (and not broken):

1. Legion Trait: The +6" to casting is good, however, it does nothing for our infantry or hellbrutes. Other armies get their Craftworld, Sept, etc to all units (CSM/SM should as well) but our only legion trait (we can't take a successor chapter with a different one) doesn't even affect two of our troop infantry (Gors and Cultists) our hellbrute, or our bike equivalent, Enlightened. Would +6 to cast for all THOUSAND SON CHARACTER key word, and +1 to invul or if no invul 5+ for all Non-Character THOUSAND SON INFANTRY/HELLBRUTE been that broken? The only thing that seems problematic would be Gor infantry, which could have been addressed by lowering their invul to 6+. As of right now CSM cultists/hellbrute are much better as they at least get something out of even the worst legion traits. Or if +1 invul is to much how about re-roll 1's on invul to non-character infantry?

2. Psychic powers are not balanced right: I understand that GW is afraid of the psychic phase becoming what is was in 7th. But really warp charge 9 for doombolt? Warp charge 7 for glamor and firestrom? You can say that these are balanced against the bonus to cast for thousand sons, but that raises two points. First is many of our psykers do not get a bonus, so this is just making them hard to cast. Second, that completely defeats the purpose of having a bonus in the first place. The bonus is to make casting more reliable, since you know, that is the primary focus of our army. Every spell in the Change discipline needs to have the warp charge reduced by at least one (except Weaver). Some of the Tzeentch powers do as well.


3. Rubrics/SoT cost to many points: This has been argued and pointed out ad nauseam on Dakka, so I won't repeat, just agree.

4. No new Models: This is a complaint every army basically has as very few factions got new models. But GW put out a new codex with new Imperial models for an extremely niche faction (Sorry if you play them, I am not being a jerk, they are cool models, but seem really niche). Why did the Custodes need to come out now? Where that many people clamoring for them? GW couldn't have released them toward the end of the year, and given some of those resources to making like 1-3 new models for Thousand Sons? I mean we have 3 elite choices, one of which is a character, and two fast attack (3 if you consider the bow Gors different enough from the spear Gors) one of which is chaos spawn. Would a Rubric Dreadnaught been that hard? I mean Forgeworld made them for years, they couldn't just copy that mold? People have made numerous suggestions on Dakka and they really should have flushed out our codex more. I mean they could even have put the Vortex Beast in Fast attack, and put that up to three, and allowed access to Possessed for elite.

5. Changing the Aura: Taking away the re-roll of the invul hurt what made thousand sons somewhat unique. I don't care about Magnus needing that (I don't use him) and while you can argue that, the re-roll 1s on Invul was one of the things that allowed some resilience for the army, especially if you want your Gors to not deep strike. Was is really that broken out of the Index that it needed to be changed? And if so, why not have a different aura than the one daemon princes have, like re-reroll 1's to wound, or 1's on casting, or whatever.

6. Miscellaneous little things: Not being able to take a soulreaper for less than 5 models (BTW noise marines can take two blast masters at 11 models), All is Dust is worthless on SoT, it needs to be on 2 damage, why can't any sorcerer take a spell familer for +1 on first cast? Would that really be that broken? No force Ax? Magnus and Arhiman have the worst warlord traits (how is Arhiman not +1 to cast!!!).

My final thought is that one of the main issues for Thousand Sons is not even the codex, it is how psychic powers work in this edition. Only being able to attempt each power once really hurts. They don't have a restriction that you can only fire one non-line-of-sight weapon, or only deep strike one unit, or over charge one unit's plasma weapons. The psychic phase is the only phase of the game that has that arbitrary restriction (You can issue multiple orders etc.) Even if it was -1 to cast a second attempt it would much improve psychic armies. And all you need to do is say you can't cast the same power on the same unit ever (so no super stacking etc.) and I think it would not be that much of an issue. But for now the over-correction due to 7th edition seems to be with us for a while.

That is my opinion, have at it.

grouchoben wrote:
That many Enlightened would drop Magnus in 1 round; you gain access to Chaos' only CP farm & Death Hex; every unit has 12" move; you've bought 28 40mm bases, so lots of board control; your shooting can't be stopped by being tied up in CC; and you've got some pretty nice CC of your own to boot.

On the downside, having to paint 27 Enlightened would send you utterly mad.

Lots of things drop Magnus in one round, that's hardly a metric for excellence.

The CP farm is the only thing they bring to the table, out of the entire codex, that does something that cannot be done better by another codex. Sorry, psychic power also, but as has been discussed earlier, once you reach a certain critical mass of psykers, well, it becomes a system of diminishing returns.

If you lose first turn, expect to lose a good chunk if not all those Enlightened, assuming your opponent identifies them as your primary firepower threat.

IMO psychic powers don't bring enough to the table to spam HQ's to make it worthwhile, ie. Snite Spam/Rule of One. Power access can only be augmented by spending CP that is already required for key Strategems, meaning it's a detriment. Further, as stated, WC cost is disproportionately skewed against 1KS, and this isn't even raising the other issues of comparing Orders or Acts.

It's a let down.

Good book, good models, fun to play, unique in concept, poor rules with a few exceptions glimmering in goat filled, prince fueled, warp energy..

Zodd1888 wrote:
IMO psychic powers don't bring enough to the table to spam HQ's to make it worthwhile, ie. Snite Spam/Rule of One. Power access can only be augmented by spending CP that is already required for key Strategems, meaning it's a detriment. Further, as stated, WC cost is disproportionately skewed against 1KS, and this isn't even raising the other issues of comparing Orders or Acts.

It's a let down.

Good book, good models, fun to play, unique in concept, poor rules with a few exceptions glimmering in goat filled, prince fueled, warp energy..

I don't agree. I have a hard time getting enough casters. Between Ahriman, DP, TA sorc, and shaman I still have spells I want to cast, which leaves smite mostly to my AS unless I need them to heal something.

 xeen wrote:
That is my opinion, have at it.

I must say, Sir, that you perfectly summed up what I think of our codex. I find myself agreeing with every single point. Good job.

I agree on psyker spam deal that it's not easy to get over-saturated.

Between ahriman, terminator sorcerer, two princes (though one a "mere" CD one), three rubric squads and a scarab squad-I'm still not really finding myself lacking choices.
Even before looking into redundancy for important spells, there is just enough of them that never hurt having around.

Doing a bit of a themed Thousand Sons army for a game in a couple weeks. Not necessarily trying to go for a WAAC style with this. However I need help deciding on Powers as they are my weakest skillset right now.

Battalion 1:
Ahriman on Disc
Sorcerer in Termie Armor w/ Familiar, Inferno Combi-Bolter, Force Sword
Basic Rubric Squad w/ Icon, Force Stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Inferno Bolters
Basic Rubric Squad w/ Icon, Force Stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Inferno Bolters
Basic Rubric Squad w/ Icon, Force Stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, 4x Warp Flamers

Battalion 2:
Daemon Prince w/ Warlord, Warp Bolter, Wings, 2x Malefic Talons
Exalted Sorc on Disc w/ 2x Power Swords, Inferno Bolt Pistol
Basic Tzaangor squad w/ Icon and Brayhorn
Basic Tzaangor squad w/ Icon and Brayhorn
Basic Tzaangor squad w/ Icon and Brayhorn
Helbrute w/ Fist and Scourge
Maulerfiend w/ Tendrils
Mutalith Vortex Beast

This leaves me with 20 points to spare for upgrades and 9 command points? I feel I probably want the whole Seer's Bane Exalted Sorc on Disc for sure. But the idea is to have one "standard" thousand sons battalion with Rubrics and sorcs and one "beastmaster" battalion with beasts and daemon engines. I'll probably want to deep strike the Rubric Squads?

So I need to figure out how to pick and place all these Psyker skills I'll have access to? Ideas? Also, Relics?

Always Gaze and Diabolic on DP.

Temporal on a couple Rubrics to heal gribblies and have redundancy. Boon on the third to try buffing seers bane sorc.

Termi Sorc takes Prescience to free up Ahriman's smite. Death Hex will be a crucial selection when facing daemons or custodes. Otherwise get Weaver on him to support tzaangors.

If you're keeping Ahriman up front - Gift is great when facing T3 armies. Otherwise Firestorm, Warptime, Prescience.

Seers bane Sorc can support big stuff with Glamour and heal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Third eye is mathematically great, but has barely broken even for me some game. Still worth it though.

DMC is good in this list for last minute caps since you lack large units. Webway won't be too good on offense with such small squads as well.

Seers bane is fun. Probably not super optimal unless you plan to use Diabolic on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Doombolt is great when facing morty or some fast deathstar. Put it on Ahriman or termie sorc for best odds.

Well, let's try this one instead then:


Battalion
Ahriman on Disc
Daemon Prince w/ Warlord, Warp Bolter, Wings, Malefic Talons
10 x Rubric Squad w/ Sorc, Soul Reaper, Bolter, Icon
5x Rubric Squad w/ Sorc, 4x Warp Flamer, Icon
30x Tzaangor w/ Brayhorn, Icon
Helbrute w/ Fist, Scourge

Spearhead Detachment
Exalted Sorc on Disc w/ Pistol, Two Power Swords
Chaos Pred w/ Havoc Launcher, Pred Autocannon, 2x Lascannon
Maulerfiend w/ Tendrils, Fists
Mutalith Vortex


It seems the answer to powers and relics depends on the opponent. But in general, I'll want to Webway the Rubrics w/ flamers and warptime them first round to clear any chaff. Put the other Rubrics on an objective. Move the Tzaangors or Webway them and get ready for turn 2. I have 3 re-roll hit rolls of 1 buffs so I can easily spread them out (they all move 12" as well) to support the daemon engines and Tzaangors for that charge.

I feel the pred is a dead end? I dont really have a way to protect it from being deepstruck on. But if I can use the pred as bait, then they'll have less units I need to deal with on turns 1 and 2 I guess.

So this has 7 CP to start with. Use 1-2 for webway depending on opponent. Start with the helm and deploy that model first (probably the DP or the Exalted Sorc as Ahriman and the DP will likely be targeted early), pay 1 CP for the crystal. I'll pay 2 more if I think the seer's bane will be necessary depending on opponent. Meaning I'll be spending 1-5 before the game begins but should get some back throughout the game.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It is, however, a perfect example of why people are unhappy with the Thousand Sons codex; what's effective isn't what we want to play.

Exactly! It makes me sad. But I don't play competitive anyways. But even in casual you want a balanced force that can 'compete' in games without just sucking.

I wouldn't spring for 3 relics normally. Just too much CP. Especially when you Webway two units and fail your Helm rolls.

Realistically a flamer squad that small won't clear much more than a 10 man IG unit. Additionally you don't have the termie sorc to cast warp time so making sure things are in position - especially if you go second - will be difficult.

I'd probably hold the Tzaangors in the Webway to keep them safe. The rest goes on the table with the Helbrute, Mauler, and Mutalith covering the other units. Additionally dropping one Rubric and 3 Tzaangors gets you enough points for 10 cultists to screen/cap - that kills your soul reaper though.

Once you make a hole in their screen dropping in tzaangors should be much easier and you'll be able to keep them supported.

As for spells:

Same deal for the DP - Gaze and Diabolic.
As usual Gift should still be top of mind for any fast caster. Death Hex and Doombolt if needed on the caster with the best bonus.

Exalted - Heal & Weaver (heal himself in combat, too)
Ahriman - Prescience, Glamour, Warptime

Aspiring - Heal backup/Firestorm

Now since you don't have any more casters you'll have to make Rubrics your primary caster for Heal and Weaver if you need to fit Death Hex / Doombolt / Death Hex.

Question: Why need the Term sorc? The exalted sorc can move 12" plus the 9" range of warp time = 21" range. All you need to do is make sure one model is in range. I can easily replace the pred for a term sorc and have points leftover. I dont own any cultists

 nintura wrote:
Question: Why need the Term sorc? The exalted sorc can move 12" plus the 9" range of warp time = 21" range. All you need to do is make sure one model is in range. I can easily replace the pred for a term sorc and have points leftover. I dont own any cultists

Depends on their deployment and how you intend to cover the Exalted after so he doesn't get sniped out by a flyer or someone drops on him. Termie sorc is handy for that precise mobility and the extra two spell slots since you can see it gets hard to adjust your spell list outside the "needs". I'm not saying you should take one and I think the predator may end up being more helpful if they've got tanks.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Always Gaze and Diabolic on DP.

Temporal on a couple Rubrics to heal gribblies and have redundancy. Boon on the third to try buffing seers bane sorc.

Termi Sorc takes Prescience to free up Ahriman's smite. Death Hex will be a crucial selection when facing daemons or custodes. Otherwise get Weaver on him to support tzaangors.

If you're keeping Ahriman up front - Gift is great when facing T3 armies. Otherwise Firestorm, Warptime, Prescience.

Seers bane Sorc can support big stuff with Glamour and heal.


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Third eye is mathematically great, but has barely broken even for me some game. Still worth it though.

DMC is good in this list for last minute caps since you lack large units. Webway won't be too good on offense with such small squads as well.

Seers bane is fun. Probably not super optimal unless you plan to use Diabolic on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Doombolt is great when facing morty or some fast deathstar. Put it on Ahriman or termie sorc for best odds.

Doesn't the Disc of Tzeentch make the Exalted Sorcerer an invalid target for Boon as he gains the Daemon keyword while on a disc?

 The Sentinel wrote:
Doesn't the Disc of Tzeentch make the Exalted Sorcerer an invalid target for Boon as he gains the Daemon keyword while on a disc?

Mm, yea, forgot about that. Thanks for the correction.