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This guard list is a trip and a half to read. I would love to see how he was playing this. Most IG players would consider only 30 guardsmen suicide but I'm guessing he made some clever use of the bullgryn and shadowsword to cover up his weakness to assault.
Kind of sad to see such a weird looking army regiment wise but the guy clearly knows what he's doing with IG from the look of it. I don't like the tank commanders being split across the regiments but they all can order themselves so it's really just an aesthetic thing.
I believe he played on the WarhammerTV stream for the final game against Orks. If you have a subscription you can watch it back.
chimeara wrote: How did the 1st place list have a relic in two different detachments from two different armies. I thought your relics have to be from the same army as your warlord?
Your free relic must be. You're allowed to use the applicable relic Stratagems from any factions you have detachments of to purchase additional relics after that.
I see, I've been playing my relics wrong then lol. Thanks !
It's amazing how many people don't know this really.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 16:09:43
Unit1126PLL wrote: Oh hey, a winning list that cheated (probably inadvertently!).
5 CP for the BN, 3 for playing 1 for the Outrider Detachment is 9CP, not 10, leaving him with 8 for his games because of the 2nd relic.
The Vanguard Detachment of Assassins gives 0 CP as part of the FAQ that permitted it.
Before we get out the pitchforks, did they use all their CPs in the matches? Ending a game with 2 cp versus ending with 1 is not a big deal.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Oh hey, a winning list that cheated (probably inadvertently!).
5 CP for the BN, 3 for playing 1 for the Outrider Detachment is 9CP, not 10, leaving him with 8 for his games because of the 2nd relic.
The Vanguard Detachment of Assassins gives 0 CP as part of the FAQ that permitted it.
Before we get out the pitchforks, did they use all their CPs in the matches? Ending a game with 2 cp versus ending with 1 is not a big deal.
From what I remember, yes - he generated quite a few, too though. There were some other colossal screw ups - like the T'au player was using FTGG on his Hammerheads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 17:14:50
Don't forget that with that IG warlord trait, if he doesn't use all his CPs, each one is worth about 1.33 unregen'd CP on average, and if he does use all of them, each one was worth 1.5 (since you can try to regen them twice).
So combined with the IG regeneration thing, 1CP can be a huge deal, especially if he's ace at rolling 5+s.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Don't forget that with that IG warlord trait, if he doesn't use all his CPs, each one is worth about 1.33 unregen'd CP on average, and if he does use all of them, each one was worth 1.5 (since you can try to regen them twice).
So combined with the IG regeneration thing, 1CP can be a huge deal, especially if he's ace at rolling 5+s.
I don't know an unused CP was one never affected by the trait. It didn't generate points or actions, it was a deadweight.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Don't forget that with that IG warlord trait, if he doesn't use all his CPs, each one is worth about 1.33 unregen'd CP on average, and if he does use all of them, each one was worth 1.5 (since you can try to regen them twice).
So combined with the IG regeneration thing, 1CP can be a huge deal, especially if he's ace at rolling 5+s.
I don't know an unused CP was one never affected by the trait. It didn't generate points or actions, it was a deadweight.
If you can find a way to play a 2000 point game of Warhammer 40k and not use 10 CP, be my guest.
My army brings 16, and in its competitive iteration it has the regen warlord trait and relic, and I usually am at 0 by turn 3 or 4. Heck, even one re-roll per phase is 5 per turn, or 9 per battle round (since you don't do one in your opponent's movement phase most of the time).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:13:47
I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
Four of the top 10 lists function in the assault phase (2 custodes biker detachments, 1 haemonculus coven detachment, and 1 AdMech electro-priests detachment). These are all hybrid armies with both shooting and assault in them but I don't think even the most optimistic of people were expecting pure Khorne Daemons to succeed.
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
You're forgetting the part where a non insignificant portion of those "Astra Militarum" detachments are literally just a barebones batallion used as a CP farm for things like blood Angels and custodes.
If GW made it where CP was limited to the faction that generated it (or even better, the regiment /chapter/forgeworlds/etc that generated it) you'd see IG detachments drop by over half overnight.
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
There is only one list in the top 10 which can be called a "gunline", the tau one. All the other ones have assault elements or are based around having high mobility or other gimmicks. Only the tau list has a screening element in front and shooty stuff behind, and even there we are talking about only 60 troops in front. Yes, this is clearly telling us that standard gunlines, like everyone already knew, are not dominating the meta, they are borderline competitive. You can take one to an event if you like to play that list, and can net you a win in a small local tournament, but at major events it will not cut it.
I like that Tau list. A lot. Pity Dark Angels only had one representation in the top 10, and that was as an ingredient of soup.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
My first game was against Tyranid Carnifexes. Two giant shooty things, one Giant Shooty thing, 7 or 8 Carnifexes with -1 to hit, including Old One eye, and Nurothrope warlord. I won that one by 17 points after pinning him in his deployment zone the entire game.
Game Two was against one of the almost but not quite copypaste custodes lists. 8 Jetbikes, 7 Jetbikes, 3 Jetbikes, Captain on Jetbike, Dude with a banner + Generic Guard CP farm. While I did kill all his characters and one unit of jetbikes, his first turn crippled me, my Malestorm draws were bad, and I lost by a clear 20 points.
Game Three was against Two Shadowswords, a Stormlord, and a generic guardsmen CP farm. I lost first turn again, but given I have such low point models to shoot at the shadowswords wern't quite as crippling as they could be. [36 heavy bolter shots re-rolling misses is no joke however.] The game eventually ground to a statemate with us scoring an exact tie as I managed to keep control of a few objectives and distracted his shadowswords with too many targets. Celestine failed to slay his warlord with both of her minions and we tied as a result.
Game Four was against Adeptus Mechanicus. One Forgeworld knight with a strenght 16 single shot gun, 4 Dakkabots, 2 AA Dudecrawlers, Crawl and an infantry screen.Oh, and a unit of 17 Electropriests that inflitrated, charged killed something and then had some stratagem to take them up to a 2+ Inv. I took care of the priests with a Librarian with nullzone, but the Dakkabots cheerfully set about murdering my entire army with 72 shots, hitting on 4's,rerolling misses at strength 6 -2. Celestine charged them and died to the overwatch with them scoring 26 wounds. On overwatch. One again my excessive board presence allowed me to cling to objectives with my tattered surviours, and the knight finally went down. We finished on another draw.
My last game was against a guy noblely playing Imperial Fists, who didn't believe in using allies. 3 Vindicators, a Captain,Lt, 5 CC Terminators, 5 Devestators, 10 Intercessors, A big Dreadnought, and a Librarian and Chaplin with Jetpacks. I took turn one and plonked most of my army beside the objective in his deployment zone and nuked the big dreadnought, finishing turn 1 with me controlling all six objectives.. It only went downhill from him from there, and I finished with my record high of 63 points to his 26 or so. I was only suprised his list had apparently won three of the previous games.
Needless to say, with two draws dragging down my score, I didn't finish terrbly highly.
Looks like gunline marines and then smash captain guard spam gave you heartburn?
So, first game, I didn’t get first turn and Magnus then got killed instantly. Rest of the army then completely under performed. (Ahriman periled twice and died 1st turn even with a re-roll, had 2 other perils as well). Wasn’t a good game at all in terms of my performance, but a good game as a game. Game 2, he just got fortunate with getting a big Death Company squad, Captain and Lemartes all into combat with Magnus after deep striking. Even with the buffs on Magnus, he got the 14 wounds through to finish him off. Was a close game and was fully in my control until the last turn and a half. Couple of mistakes on my behalf, but a very good, close game overall.
The other 3 games, I played slightly differently and it showed. Magnus survived in all 3 and put in a lot of work. Doombolt, Bolt of Change and Infernal Gateway followed up by a Smite (sometimes no gateway due to positioning) really put out a lot of damage. His combat ability also did a lot of work – pretty much soloing a unit of lychguard in game 4 and meaning in most cases, vs characters they only had to fail 2 saves for them to die.
It’s a tough call as to whether or not to continue to use him. Not having 1st turn felt like a MAJOR issue in a couple of games, mostly because of how the terrain was, as the tip of his upright wing was always visible regardless of where I placed him. I would NEVER, and I mean NEVER, take him to a GW run event, due to their poor terrain setups, but if tables have good sized LOS blocking stuff, he will be able to do so much work.
My biggest question going forward though, is whether or not a 3rd Prince, additional screening/chaff, a couple of Shamans and a bigger Terminator squad is better than Magnus.
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
Four of the top 10 lists function in the assault phase (2 custodes biker detachments, 1 haemonculus coven detachment, and 1 AdMech electro-priests detachment). These are all hybrid armies with both shooting and assault in them but I don't think even the most optimistic of people were expecting pure Khorne Daemons to succeed.
Ridiculous. A gunline army with a small "functioning assault" detachment does not somehow become a "balanced hybrid"... it's still a gunline list (with a small assault element), at most that's what we see here for "diversity".
I realize Eldar are considered a mobile force, which they can be, but they can stand and shoot with the best of them and looking at those lists it was still mostly gunline with some other small element sprinkled in.
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
Four of the top 10 lists function in the assault phase (2 custodes biker detachments, 1 haemonculus coven detachment, and 1 AdMech electro-priests detachment). These are all hybrid armies with both shooting and assault in them but I don't think even the most optimistic of people were expecting pure Khorne Daemons to succeed.
Ridiculous. A gunline army with a small "functioning assault" detachment does not somehow become a "balanced hybrid"... it's still a gunline list (with a small assault element), at most that's what we see here for "diversity".
I realize Eldar are considered a mobile force, which they can be, but they can stand and shoot with the best of them and looking at those lists it was still mostly gunline with some other small element sprinkled in.
First place: The absolute most you can say here is 30/70 shooting vs assault, and only against a horde matchup where it's going to have to grind away with those hurricane bolters for a while. two eversors and the horde of vertus praetors do the lion's share of their damage in assault, with a tiny CP farm of guard tacked on.
Second place: Yep, primarily mobility+shooting. Flyerspam lists win by being a nuisance to movement (those big no move-through bases are really quite obnoxious in the hands of a skilled forward planner, especially the double-turn eldar ones) but damage wise, yep, 90/10 shooting vs assault.
Third place: 900 points of assault units, 1100 points of shooting units. Not a small assault contingent by points at all.
Fourth place: Eldar gunline plus double-smacking shining spears. 75/25 shooting vs assault by damage, those Shining Spears provide a hell of a punch when Ynnari for their points value. I guess if you count damage done via psychic powers as shooting this is a 'gunline?'
Fifth place: All shooting damage, mid range. Not a stationary gunline, but almost no assault damage either.
Sixth place: 700 points of assault, 1300 of shooting, about 70/30 split.
Seventh place: big ol gunline.It's a tau list.
Eighth place: big ol gunline. AM superheavy list.
Ninth place: 20/80 assault damage vs shooting damage. 5 grots and 8 talos are going to do the majority of this list's hurting in the assault phase, despite the presence of about 500pts of fire support.
Tenth place: Almost entirely assault, if it did 10/90 I'd be pretty surprised. All the shooting in the list amounted to about one basic character's worth of sniper fire per turn, compared to two smashcaptains, 38 electropriests and 6 dragoons.
3 primarily assault lists, 1 pretty much split list, 2 roughly 1/3 assault 2/3 shooting lists, 4 all shooting lists.
This is pretty much exactly the result people who were rejecting the idea that it was going to be a "pure gunline meta' were predicting. The average list puts roughly 1/3 of its points into highly CP-intensive, efficient fast assault units that can net massive dividends when they hit home, and 2/3 of their points on heavily CP-farmy shooting units.
Gunzhard wrote: I got a chuckle out of the "fake news" conclusion that this isn't a new 'gunline meta'...
IG outnumber the second most popular faction by more than double, and most of the armies are predominantly shooting, and even mostly gunline shooting...
Assault based armies were heavily outnumbered here. Looks like most of the Nid lists were mostly shooty but even if we count those with the Orks and the few pure BA this is still a drastic drop, and where's the blood God?
Four of the top 10 lists function in the assault phase (2 custodes biker detachments, 1 haemonculus coven detachment, and 1 AdMech electro-priests detachment). These are all hybrid armies with both shooting and assault in them but I don't think even the most optimistic of people were expecting pure Khorne Daemons to succeed.
Ridiculous. A gunline army with a small "functioning assault" detachment does not somehow become a "balanced hybrid"... it's still a gunline list (with a small assault element), at most that's what we see here for "diversity".
I realize Eldar are considered a mobile force, which they can be, but they can stand and shoot with the best of them and looking at those lists it was still mostly gunline with some other small element sprinkled in.
I would classify the top Custodes armies as assault armies for sure.
1000+ points of bikes (aka more then 10) and while a bike has 6 bolters each and clears chaff like crazy the main damage comes from CC.
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union
