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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





kombatwombat wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Breazeal wrote:
It's saying I need permission to view the lists? Is this working as normal or did I miss the boat?


The initial link from the GT is down, yes. Though I do have a copy of the data that i'll republish later though it won't be the final version.


Please do!

Also, out of interest - do the ‘Black Templar’ or ‘Black Templars’ keywords net any results?


Yes, but only in this singular detachment with token units unfortunately. I'll try to get the file put up a little later today.




   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




 Daedalus81 wrote:
kombatwombat wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Breazeal wrote:
It's saying I need permission to view the lists? Is this working as normal or did I miss the boat?


The initial link from the GT is down, yes. Though I do have a copy of the data that i'll republish later though it won't be the final version.


Please do!

Also, out of interest - do the ‘Black Templar’ or ‘Black Templars’ keywords net any results?


Yes, but only in this singular detachment with token units unfortunately. I'll try to get the file put up a little later today.



That would be awesome!
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:

Yes, but only in this singular detachment with token units unfortunately. I'll try to get the file put up a little later today.




Thank you!

That’s... heartbreaking. The only Black Templars units were 3 minimum Scout squads in a Detachment with a Librarian. I know why they’re there - for Deny the Witch - but that’s still a travesty. That’s not just breaking the lore, that’s beating it to death in front of its children.

Oh and Cenobytes. The game’s cheapest backfield out of line of sight objective campers. Without Grimaldus or even a Templars character.

Sometimes I hate people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 14:46:43


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Crunch >>>> lore, for better or for worse. In this case, worse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:10:09


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Martel732 wrote:
Crunch >>>> lore, for better or for worse. In this case, worse.


In tournaments, this is true! But not everywhere!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:34:34


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Can we collectively ask the GW Rules Team to peruse this list document? It becomes evidently clear which units are horrible right now. There are only four Land Raiders, no Striking Scorpions etc.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Does anyone know the results of the tournament? My searching for information has only come up with complaints about the unpainted styrofoam terrain (which is fair, but still I wanna know the winning list).
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





karandrasss wrote:
Can we collectively ask the GW Rules Team to peruse this list document? It becomes evidently clear which units are horrible right now. There are only four Land Raiders, no Striking Scorpions etc.
GW has shown to have lots of stats about armies and compositions at their own tournaments. I assume they are well aware of this document and took stats from it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Does anyone know the results of the tournament? My searching for information has only come up with complaints about the unpainted styrofoam terrain (which is fair, but still I wanna know the winning list).

Geoff won the Invitational with Custodes + Guard and an assassin. Winning the final against Tau
Mike Porter won the GT with Custodes + Guard and 3 assassins. Winning the final game against another Custodes.

Another Guard + Custodes and BA, an Ork horde, an Eldar soup and a Dark Eldar made up the top 3 tables for the final round.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 20:44:01


 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Thank you for the information! Kinda disappointing that both tournaments were won by largely the same list, though. It sounds like the Custodes/Guard soup was rather dominant in general.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't know. The combination is really strong there is no doubt about that but its also very binary.
A couple of bad saves and you lose half your army and fold. But on the flip side you get games were you don't fail a single 4++ and its a complete stomp.

I think it lends itself to an army that can spike really well. You see the guy who doesn't fail his saves win the tournament but you don't see the guy in 158 who loses 5 bikes to a bunch of lasguns turn 1.

As an example the winner of the invitational played the same Tau opponent in the previous game of the GT (the Invitational finals were after game 3 of the GT) and he lost it (learning some things to do different that helped him in the invitational). He then also lost the 4th GT game to go 2-2 and dropped, probably because he was tired after so many games and couldn't finish high anyway.
   
Made in ph
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ordana wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Can we collectively ask the GW Rules Team to peruse this list document? It becomes evidently clear which units are horrible right now. There are only four Land Raiders, no Striking Scorpions etc.
GW has shown to have lots of stats about armies and compositions at their own tournaments. I assume they are well aware of this document and took stats from it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Does anyone know the results of the tournament? My searching for information has only come up with complaints about the unpainted styrofoam terrain (which is fair, but still I wanna know the winning list).

Geoff won the Invitational with Custodes + Guard and an assassin. Winning the final against Tau
Mike Porter won the GT with Custodes + Guard and 3 assassins. Winning the final game against another Custodes.

Another Guard + Custodes and BA, an Ork horde, an Eldar soup and a Dark Eldar made up the top 3 tables for the final round.


Holy hell, anyone got the Ork list?
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Ordana wrote:
I don't know. The combination is really strong there is no doubt about that but its also very binary.
A couple of bad saves and you lose half your army and fold. But on the flip side you get games were you don't fail a single 4++ and its a complete stomp.

I think it lends itself to an army that can spike really well. You see the guy who doesn't fail his saves win the tournament but you don't see the guy in 158 who loses 5 bikes to a bunch of lasguns turn 1.

As an example the winner of the invitational played the same Tau opponent in the previous game of the GT (the Invitational finals were after game 3 of the GT) and he lost it (learning some things to do different that helped him in the invitational). He then also lost the 4th GT game to go 2-2 and dropped, probably because he was tired after so many games and couldn't finish high anyway.


If you start looking at bad luck pretty much any army kneels over so bohoo...There's no army immune to bad luck so "army can be defeated by huge bad luck" isn't exactly a good point.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/10/20/tneva82-tournament-report/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Fully-charged Electropriest




UK

It's amplified a lot though when it's bad luck rolling on expensive models. 10 wounds on custodes bikes vs 10 wounds on guardsmen from rolling ones is a big difference.

Imperial Soup
2200pts/1750 painted
2800pts/1200 painted
2200pts/650 painted
217pts/151 painted 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





karandrasss wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Can we collectively ask the GW Rules Team to peruse this list document? It becomes evidently clear which units are horrible right now. There are only four Land Raiders, no Striking Scorpions etc.
GW has shown to have lots of stats about armies and compositions at their own tournaments. I assume they are well aware of this document and took stats from it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Does anyone know the results of the tournament? My searching for information has only come up with complaints about the unpainted styrofoam terrain (which is fair, but still I wanna know the winning list).

Geoff won the Invitational with Custodes + Guard and an assassin. Winning the final against Tau
Mike Porter won the GT with Custodes + Guard and 3 assassins. Winning the final game against another Custodes.

Another Guard + Custodes and BA, an Ork horde, an Eldar soup and a Dark Eldar made up the top 3 tables for the final round.


Holy hell, anyone got the Ork list?
Battalion Detachment, Evil Sunz Clan [907 Points] + 5 CP
HQ1: Zhadsnark Da Ripper (122) - WARLORD (Might is Right) – [122pts]
HQ2: Big Mek on Warbike (81), Kustom Force Field (20), Killsaw (15), 2x Dakkagun (0) - [116pts]
Troop1: 30 Ork Boyz (180), 29x Sluggas (0), Boss Nob (0), Shoota (Boss Nob, 0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [193pts]
Troop2: 30 Ork Boyz (180), 29x Sluggas (0), Boss Nob (0), Shoota (Boss Nob, 0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [193pts]
Troop3: 10 Ork Boyz (60), 9x Sluggas (0), Boss Nob (0), Shoota (Boss Nob, 0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [73pts]
Elite1: Painboy on Warbike (90), Killsaw (15), ‘Urty Syringe (0), 2x Dakkagun (0) - [105pts]
Elite2: Painboy on Warbike (90), Killsaw (15), ‘Urty Syringe (0), 2x Dakkagun (0) - [105pts]

Outrider Detachment, Evil Sunz Clan [875 Points] + 1 CP
HQ3: Big Mek on Warbike (81), Kustom Force Field (20), Killsaw (15), 2x Dakkagun (0) - [116pts]
FA1: 30x Stormboyz (240), 30x Slugga (0), 29x Choppa (0), Boss Nob (0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [253pts]
FA2: 30x Stormboyz (240), 30x Slugga (0), 29x Choppa (0), Boss Nob (0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [253pts]
FA3: 30x Stormboyz (240), 30x Slugga (0), 29x Choppa (0), Boss Nob (0), Power Klaw (Boss Nob, 13) – [253pts]

Supreme Command Detachment, Evil Sunz Clan [217 Points] + 1 CP
HQ4: Warboss on Warbike (86), Attack Squig (0), Headwoppa's Killchoppa (7), Shoota (0), 2x Dakkagun (0) - [93pts]
HQ5: Weirdboy (62), Weirdboy Staff (0), Da Jump - [62pts]
HQ6: Weirdboy (62), Weirdboy Staff (0), Warpath - [62pts]

The only sort of list Orks can run at the moment, Flood the board with models and hope the enemy can't deal with all of them/the game ends before they do.
The game is on the WarhammerTV stream if you have a subscription. I didn't watch it myself but I heard he lost (again lot of Guard with some Custodes and BA)
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ordana wrote:
I don't know. The combination is really strong there is no doubt about that but its also very binary.
A couple of bad saves and you lose half your army and fold. But on the flip side you get games were you don't fail a single 4++ and its a complete stomp.

I think it lends itself to an army that can spike really well. You see the guy who doesn't fail his saves win the tournament but you don't see the guy in 158 who loses 5 bikes to a bunch of lasguns turn 1.

As an example the winner of the invitational played the same Tau opponent in the previous game of the GT (the Invitational finals were after game 3 of the GT) and he lost it (learning some things to do different that helped him in the invitational). He then also lost the 4th GT game to go 2-2 and dropped, probably because he was tired after so many games and couldn't finish high anyway.


Right - I still think they'll see the nerf bat, but the biggest reason they made the top table is there were so damn many of them.

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





tneva82 wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
I don't know. The combination is really strong there is no doubt about that but its also very binary.
A couple of bad saves and you lose half your army and fold. But on the flip side you get games were you don't fail a single 4++ and its a complete stomp.

I think it lends itself to an army that can spike really well. You see the guy who doesn't fail his saves win the tournament but you don't see the guy in 158 who loses 5 bikes to a bunch of lasguns turn 1.

As an example the winner of the invitational played the same Tau opponent in the previous game of the GT (the Invitational finals were after game 3 of the GT) and he lost it (learning some things to do different that helped him in the invitational). He then also lost the 4th GT game to go 2-2 and dropped, probably because he was tired after so many games and couldn't finish high anyway.


If you start looking at bad luck pretty much any army kneels over so bohoo...There's no army immune to bad luck so "army can be defeated by huge bad luck" isn't exactly a good point.


Yes, but there's a difference between "You could do no damage with your 100 lasgun shots by rolling no 4+ to hit rolls" and "you could lose your biker captain by rolling then re-rolling a 1-2 on your 3++ vs a melta weapon, then a melta damage roll does what a melta damage roll does to him"

It's still a 1/9 chance overall, but it only requires 2 dice rolls. The more dice you roll, the much closer to the expected average you'll get.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

the_scotsman wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
I don't know. The combination is really strong there is no doubt about that but its also very binary.
A couple of bad saves and you lose half your army and fold. But on the flip side you get games were you don't fail a single 4++ and its a complete stomp.

I think it lends itself to an army that can spike really well. You see the guy who doesn't fail his saves win the tournament but you don't see the guy in 158 who loses 5 bikes to a bunch of lasguns turn 1.

As an example the winner of the invitational played the same Tau opponent in the previous game of the GT (the Invitational finals were after game 3 of the GT) and he lost it (learning some things to do different that helped him in the invitational). He then also lost the 4th GT game to go 2-2 and dropped, probably because he was tired after so many games and couldn't finish high anyway.


If you start looking at bad luck pretty much any army kneels over so bohoo...There's no army immune to bad luck so "army can be defeated by huge bad luck" isn't exactly a good point.


Yes, but there's a difference between "You could do no damage with your 100 lasgun shots by rolling no 4+ to hit rolls" and "you could lose your biker captain by rolling then re-rolling a 1-2 on your 3++ vs a melta weapon, then a melta damage roll does what a melta damage roll does to him"

It's still a 1/9 chance overall, but it only requires 2 dice rolls. The more dice you roll, the much closer to the expected average you'll get.


Yes, this.

It's easy to buck the averages with 1 or 2 rolls (heck, 1 roll is guaranteed not to be average, since the average is 3.5 for a D6). It's much harder with a thousand, or a million, or ten million. Armies that spam infantry are on the end of the scale where you could pretty well approximate their performance just by calculating averages, while armies like Custodes have performance that is way above average some games, and way below average other games, but doesn't roll enough dice in a single game to hit the average as well.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge




1st Place
Spoiler:

2nd Place
Spoiler:

3rd Place
Spoiler:

4th Place
Spoiler:

5th Place
Spoiler:

6th Place
Spoiler:

7th Place
Spoiler:

8th Place
Spoiler:

9th Place
Spoiler:

10th Place Place
Spoiler:


Pretty mixed bag. Liking it.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Oh hey, a winning list that cheated (probably inadvertently!).

5 CP for the BN, 3 for playing 1 for the Outrider Detachment is 9CP, not 10, leaving him with 8 for his games because of the 2nd relic.

The Vanguard Detachment of Assassins gives 0 CP as part of the FAQ that permitted it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 15:08:05


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge




For my own games, I played against the Alaitoc list above that came 2nd and lost 13-7, due to a fantastic last turn on my opponents part (good play, not luck) and a rubbish last turn on mine (bad play, not luck). I had been winning up til that point.

Game 2 I played against Blood Angels and got a win 16-4 win, which would have been a 20-0, but we ran out of time on turn 3.

Game 3 was against Custodes and Guard (2 Shield Captains, 9 Dawneagles, 9 basilisks) I won 13-7, but again would have won by alot more, we run out of time turn 4.

Game 4 was against pure guard, I won 15-5, made a horrible mistake on turn 1, which meant I couldn't table him til turn 5. Game ended turn 4. So time out + mistake.

Game 5 was against Chaos Demons, I lost, but again this was to time out we only had 3 turns and my opponent and I agreed that had it gone on instead of being 11-9 to him I would have comfortably won and either tabled him or only left him a couple of nurglings on the table (all his demon princes were already dead, his bloodletter bomb was dead and his horrors were perma locked in CC by the end of 3).

My take away: I need to practice more, not playing 40k for a month before a tournament is silly. I was playing too slow basically, so I couldn't compensate for the large number of models my opponents had to move. Also, I made silly mistakes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 15:15:18


 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




I find it interesting that you ran out of time on all of your games even with the 1750 point limit. Can I ask what, you feel, was the reason for time running out on your games?
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Oh hey, a winning list that cheated (probably inadvertently!).

5 CP for the BN, 3 for playing 1 for the Outrider Detachment is 9CP, not 10, leaving him with 8 for his games because of the 2nd relic.

The Vanguard Detachment of Assassins gives 0 CP as part of the FAQ that permitted it.


That is pretty lame. Someone playing a tourney should have known, and the TOs should have spotted.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I find it interesting that you ran out of time on all of your games even with the 1750 point limit. Can I ask what, you feel, was the reason for time running out on your games?


These are 2k lists...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 15:27:47


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





The tourney was 2k, not 1750.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I find it interesting that you ran out of time on all of your games even with the 1750 point limit. Can I ask what, you feel, was the reason for time running out on your games?


All these lists are 2k.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

How did the 1st place list have a relic in two different detachments from two different armies. I thought your relics have to be from the same army as your warlord?
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 chimeara wrote:
How did the 1st place list have a relic in two different detachments from two different armies. I thought your relics have to be from the same army as your warlord?


Your free relic must be. You're allowed to use the applicable relic Stratagems from any factions you have detachments of to purchase additional relics after that.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 chimeara wrote:
How did the 1st place list have a relic in two different detachments from two different armies. I thought your relics have to be from the same army as your warlord?


See FAQ's

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

Basically, its a stratagem just like everything else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 15:50:14


15k+ :Harlequin: 4k
12k+ SOLD (to many armies)
5k
Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Drager wrote:

8th Place
Spoiler:


Pretty mixed bag. Liking it.

This guard list is a trip and a half to read. I would love to see how he was playing this. Most IG players would consider only 30 guardsmen suicide but I'm guessing he made some clever use of the bullgryn and shadowsword to cover up his weakness to assault.

Kind of sad to see such a weird looking army regiment wise but the guy clearly knows what he's doing with IG from the look of it. I don't like the tank commanders being split across the regiments but they all can order themselves so it's really just an aesthetic thing.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

the_scotsman wrote:
 chimeara wrote:
How did the 1st place list have a relic in two different detachments from two different armies. I thought your relics have to be from the same army as your warlord?


Your free relic must be. You're allowed to use the applicable relic Stratagems from any factions you have detachments of to purchase additional relics after that.

I see, I've been playing my relics wrong then lol. Thanks !
   
 
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