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I'd swap the Frag to Heavy. Better accuracy with a flat D2 weapon is ace.

Sterling191 wrote:
I'd swap the Frag to Heavy. Better accuracy with a flat D2 weapon is ace.

Frag cannon is for backend objectives, while the Infernus needs Heavy just to stay mobile.

I considered taking one as demo, but settled on a sniper combi-plasma instead.

This one little kill team is going to slowly become an entire Watch Company with all the different Vet loadouts I'll end up trying...

Paedrig wrote:
This one little kill team is going to slowly become an entire Watch Company with all the different Vet loadouts I'll end up trying...

Magnets are your friend, brother. It's cheaper in the long run.

+++ Thought for the Day +++

The only mercy for the Alien is death.

Hoping we get rules for the new Vanguard snipers.

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

No.

P34

If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see below), it can split them between eligible target models as you wish. Declare how you will split the model’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving onto the next.

If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close comb atattacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish– declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

Errata (note the crucial change to the wording here)

‘If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, any attacks still allocated to this model are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model

Note that when shooting, unfired weapons do not have any attacks allocated at this stage and so those attacks are not lost.

This may be thread necromancy, but this is the best fit for my questions

I'm just starting Kill Team and have lots of DW models from a failed attempt at building a 40k DW army. I have the Getting Started box, and Kill Team Cassius box. I also assembled a few ETB primaris and a reiver for the beginnings of a Primaris squad. But they don't have a lot of options. Right now, this is the list I am trying to paint up.

-Intercessor Sergeant: leader, bolt rifle, auspex
-Intercessor gunner: comms, bolt rifle, aux grenade launcher (which I need to model)
-Veteran: combat, power maul, storm shield
-Veteran gunner: heavy, Infernus heavy bolter
-Veteran gunner, DW fragcannon

I've thought about switching the models for the Intercessor comms guy and the leader, because I used th 30th Anniversary marine, and he has what could be a power sword strapped to his waist. Plus he looks fancy enough.

Based on reading here, I've assembled a shotgun weilding vet gunner and a black shield with power sword and storm shield.

If you can, you may want to magnetize. I find that I want to switch off between power sword and maul depending on who I'm facing. The former for MEQ and the latter for GEQ (and surprisingly, Death Guard).

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Based on reading here, I've assembled a shotgun weilding vet gunner and a black shield with power sword and storm shield.

I like having each model be a character. And with such a small.kodel count, I don't mind having multiple models.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
This may be thread necromancy, but this is the best fit for my questions

I'm just starting Kill Team and have lots of DW models from a failed attempt at building a 40k DW army. I have the Getting Started box, and Kill Team Cassius box. I also assembled a few ETB primaris and a reiver for the beginnings of a Primaris squad. But they don't have a lot of options. Right now, this is the list I am trying to paint up.

-Intercessor Sergeant: leader, bolt rifle, auspex
-Intercessor gunner: comms, bolt rifle, aux grenade launcher (which I need to model)
-Veteran: combat, power maul, storm shield
-Veteran gunner: heavy, Infernus heavy bolter
-Veteran gunner, DW fragcannon

I've thought about switching the models for the Intercessor comms guy and the leader, because I used th 30th Anniversary marine, and he has what could be a power sword strapped to his waist. Plus he looks fancy enough.

You should make also some power sword / storm shield vets as well. They come in very handy to have on your roster. Statistically, its actually better to just go with the power sword except in very few cases.

If you're running roster style, I'd reccomend having 4 storm shield guys, 2 with power sword and 2 with maul. That way if you run up against a plasma spam team, you just go with all melee and charge into his face.

Yeah, I made a black shield with power sword and shield. That gives me one power maul/shield and one power sword/shield.

So make two more, huh? Hmmm... i have lots of shoulder pads.

So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

In case it confuses someone reading this - DW don't get supressors, just jumpack vanguards and terminators.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

So jump pack, shield and what? Chainsword, maul?

Depends on who you face. For MEQ, Power sword, for GEQ Power Maul. The Vanguard Sgt. can take a Relic Blade which is Damage 2, AP -3. This really only works at the 125pt level or higher as the Vanguard Vet with Power Weapon, Combat Shield, and Jump Pack is 25pts. If given the Veteran Spec, he can use the Lvl 1 Tactic: Adaptive Tactics and try for a 1st turn Charge. It's a counter for Plasma spam.

Edit: Used Battlescribe to build a 100pt list; you can take the JP Vanguard and still have a 5 man team. The Leader is underarmed, so keep him safe. (List as built assuming opponent is GEQ, specifically AdMech).

Leader: Watch Sgt. with Boltgun and Power Maul 18pts.
Specialists:
Vanguard Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield, Jump-pack. VETERAN 25pts
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. COMBAT 19pts
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. ZEALOT 19pts
Fire Team:
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. 19pts

 Valhalla130 wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

So jump pack, shield and what? Chainsword, maul?

How would you kit your Deathwatch out to face IG, space marines and grey knights?

There the only teams the guy I play has, and every game so far I've lost them all. I did go in and write a big thread not long ago but didn't get a great deal of help other than Comms and SIA. I'll leave it at that and see who gets back. I don't want to waste my time again.

Cheers.

What is the composition of those teams?

Also, I've only played against the first two, but successfully. That being said, the marine player did not bring appropriate anti-3+ armor weapons like Plasma guns or power swords, while I did.

A suggested MEQ list. 98/100pts
Leader:
Intercessor Sgt: Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Auspex 23pts
Specialists:
Veteran: Combi-Plasma. Comms 18pts.
Veteran: Combi-Plasma. Sniper 18pts.
Veteran Gunner: Infernus Heavy Bolter. Heavy 18pts
Fire Team:
Veteran Gunner: Frag Cannon. 21pts.

Tactics.
The Aupex and Comms are for the Infernus H-Bolter: Negate the Obscured penalty with the 1st and +1 to hit from the 2nd. Ideally this is at short range for the H-Bolter, and you have a 2+ on the target. Use Hellfire Shell (Tactics cost 1). Only 1 hit roll, but a successful hit does d3 Mortal Wounds. Have Tactical Re-Roll ready, or use Rival Chapters for the re-roll.

Originally the Sgt. had a Stalker Bolt Rifle, but it's Heavy, and the Sgt needs to keep pace with the Infernus gunner.

Plasma is for armor cracking, but do not overcharge unless you have the re-rolls. Both Tactical Re-Roll and Rival Chapters are your best friend here, and also the Sniper ability. That should take care of vanilla marines.

Against Grey Knights, stay out of range of the psibolt if possible. Fire at long range even though the Auspex/Comms Infernus combo is now only hitting on 3+, and plasma on 5+.

A suggested GEQ list. 98/100pts
Leader:
Intercessor Sgt: Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Auspex. 21pts
Specialists:
Black Shield: Power Maul, Storm Shield. 21pts. Zealot
Veteran: Power Maul, Storm Shield. 19pts. Combat
Veteran Gunner: Infernus Heavy Bolter. Heavy 18pts
Fire Team:
Veteran Gunner: Frag Cannon. 21pts.
Shooting is pretty much the same as above. While I've used Combat and Zealot before, I'm beginning to think Scout and Veteran might be better. IG is weak in HtH, and ideally you'll want to charge a Hot-Shot Volley gunner turn 1. A Veteran can do that under favorable conditions with Adaptive Tactics. Scouts are +2" movement with an Advance re-roll inherent, so he should be charging turn 2. As long as you can keep the anti-armor guns engaged, Deathwatch should have the edge. If the Guard do have Power Fists/Swords, that Tempestor Prime is the 2nd priority, but 1st is anti-armor guns. All you should need to do is go for the auto-fail nerve tests:kill the Ld 7 figures, then after 5 OoA, the IG will auto-shake.

Macabre Galatic wrote:
How would you kit your Deathwatch out to face IG, space marines and grey knights?

There the only teams the guy I play has, and every game so far I've lost them all. I did go in and write a big thread not long ago but didn't get a great deal of help other than Comms and SIA. I'll leave it at that and see who gets back. I don't want to waste my time again.

Cheers.

I'm guessing you would take different troops from your command roster. For IG, power maul and storm shield, and get in close as fast as possible. For marines, SIA. But that's from reading this thread and others like it.

I have yet to play my first game.

Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

GK is gonna be a game of keep away. You're gonna get mauled by double-taping psybolts if you let them get within 12". Use your superior SIA range to your advantage.

Stalker pattern boltguns on standard vets often get overlooked, but the capacity to put two shots out across the entire board should not be undervalued.

Similarly, for factions who you dont mind getting in close against, shotguns are worth their weight in gold. Flat 2 damage is absolutely terrifying because of injury roll mechanics.

 argonak wrote:
Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

You'll notice that, in general, factions that were particularly strong got less.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

You'll notice that, in general, factions that were particularly strong got less.

Yeah, for a while there I felt like every other Kill Team player was making a Deathwatch kill team. I mean I get it, Deathwatch was one of the cheapest (money wise), fastest to build the models to get a very powerful and flexible army with the added bonus that they aren't half bad in full 40k currently. Heck, the months before Elites dropped, it was starting to get rare for regular Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines players to not say their kill team wasn't a count as Deathwatch one.

Maybe it is a little harsh, but I am not all that broken up about the players with $35 US power teams (Deathwatch and Harlequins mostly) not getting a whole lot. I would argue they were on the high end of the meta for relatively little effort, and it isn't like they fell to the bottom of tier from Elites. They just didn't gain all that much compared to the average faction which looking at Elites for adding power, only few factions actually got much anyways from what I have seen. Many of the Elites options don't really increase the relative effectiveness of many factions, just give them more options many times aren't particularly good in terms of effectiveness.

That actually kind of surprised me. It is entirely possible Kill Team is more balanced with Elites than without. I was sure that couldn't possibly be the case given the increase stuff which usually increases imbalance. I mean there are definitely a lot more poor choices now, but I think factions may be closer to being balanced against each other than they were before.

KILL TEAM ELITES
Deathwatch
Vanguard Veterans
-jump pack is mandatory, however, since the move and charge are all done in the same movement phase, I noticed little benefit from making them close combat oriented

HOWEVER

correct me if I am wrong, but looks like they can take TWO pistols ..

Vanguard Veteran - 2x plasma pistol - sniper specialization =23pts
(pair of grav pistols and demo spec is viable option as well vs MEQ )

im getting some interesting ideas here

I'm off too games night tonight. I'll let you know if I still suck ass or not. I've taken a few things on board, especially staying out of range from psy-bolt. Looking forward to seeing how my chainfist, heavy flamer terminator performs.

Good luck!

My reading agrees with yours. One can even take a pistol and Combat Shield for the INV. You do have a good point about the dual plasma pistol armed Sniper specialist.

As for why I'd arm Vanguard Veterans for CQC, is for me they'd replace the (total failures) Primaris Reivers in the rapid advance role for Missions that require such.

Gunrunner1775 wrote:
KILL TEAM ELITES
Deathwatch
Vanguard Veterans
-jump pack is mandatory, however, since the move and charge are all done in the same movement phase, I noticed little benefit from making them close combat oriented

HOWEVER

correct me if I am wrong, but looks like they can take TWO pistols ..

Vanguard Veteran - 2x plasma pistol - sniper specialization =23pts
(pair of grav pistols and demo spec is viable option as well vs MEQ )

im getting some interesting ideas here

try this one

Vanguard veteran with jump pack, 2x plasma pistols, sniper specialization (23 pts)
Vanguard veteran with jump pack, 2x grav pistols, demo specialization (21 pts)

(we play with super crazy amount of terrain on the board, a metric crap ton, 99.9% of shots will always be obscured)

This is examples of some of the terrain we have used in random kill team missions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Those pics are from one of the 4 player every man for himself kill team games

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Good luck!

I won my first game last night! It was space marines i was up against and we played shifting priorities. I won 5-2.

Here's the list I brought.

4 Intercessor 's + Leader Sergeant with chainsword = 86pts all with stalker rilfes
Demolitions - Veteran Gunner Frag Cannon 21pts
Veteran - Terminator Gunner Heavy Flamer and Chainfist 37pts
Heavy - Veteran Gunner - Infernus Heavy Bolter 18pts
Watch Sergeant - Xenophase blade 19pts
181pts

My opponent had just shy of 200pts and a big chunk of that was a terminator captain. I managed to take 3 wounds off him with the hell fire shell tactic from the Infernus Heavy Bolter and keep him tied up with my own terminator, which should have died in combat from the captain's relic blade but the dice were bad for us. The first kill came on turn 3 and the game ended on turn 4. The stalker rifles with ap2 against power and terminator armour sounds good but it didn't work out due to the dice rolling low. The Frag Cannon stayed alive but did nothing. I only lost one Intercessor which I'm happy with.

Only took me 6 games of getting destroyed to feel like I know enough to actually win.