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 Mordekiem wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

where on pg 31 does it say to discard attacks from that weapon only? ranged attacks you repeat the sequence for each weapon. It doesn't say that for CC that I see. All CC attacks are allocated at once.

As I previously quoted, Page 31, section 4

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

Then on page 35, section 4

Resolve Close Combat Attacks - Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for the number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks...

Nowhere does it say that CC attacks are assigned all at once, in fact the rules clearly state the opposite as I quoted above.

Foxfyre wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

where on pg 31 does it say to discard attacks from that weapon only? ranged attacks you repeat the sequence for each weapon. It doesn't say that for CC that I see. All CC attacks are allocated at once.

As I previously quoted, Page 31, section 4

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

Then on page 35, section 4

Resolve Close Combat Attacks - Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for the number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks...

Nowhere does it say that CC attacks are assigned all at once, in fact the rules clearly state the opposite as I quoted above.

We're going in circles I think. I made my argument and will let it stand. No need to rehash everything. Let's talk about how to make a better DW kill team. Like Shotguns. Are they worth it?

Hey guys,

Where do we stand on loadouts for Primaris?

Should I be looking at Standard, Auto, or Stalker Bolt Rifles for my Intercessors?

I'm not sure if I'm fully grasping the pros and cons of each

Thanks

primaris are really expensive and don't get many options. I can see possibly including one or two. But you get better options and more bang for your buck with vets I think. If you want to run a bunch of primaris you are probably better just playing astartes.


I think the two best uses are probably going to be a combat reiver sgt (to go with blackshield for a burly CC team) and a intercessor sgt leader (To make a tougher to kill leader). Grenade launcher could be cool, but I am not sold on it yet. It's there with the shotguns as weapons that don't super impress me.

So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

 Rolsheen wrote:
So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

That's 99 points (bolt pistols cost 2 points and I don't see an option to just drop them). Only difference that would have made would be the nids player would have had 1 more CP at the start though.

Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

[KILL TEAM] My first army: How to build 10 DW?

As for a TAC, not at the moment. Also I don't think an elite KT faction like DW can have one. Every figure must carry its weight, and so you should purpose build against your opponent. Remember that per the core rules, the mission is selected first, then each player selects their faction (keyword), so you'd then know what your DW would face, and can select a KT accordingly.

As for the actual modeling, work out a couple teams first that you'd like to use, then see what overlaps. My post in the linked thread has my three sample DW Veteran teams that I worked out. (I did buy a 5 man KT box to add to Kill Team Mordelai though.) I've also designed a 5 man CC KT with Primaris Reivers, but did not include it as I do not own any yet. However, the added mobility of Reivers could be important.

 Weazel wrote:
Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

I’ve got some models available to me that I’m hoping I can make a good workable Kill Team.

Heavy Thunder Hammer.
Boltgun + Power Sword.
Shotgun.
Frag Cannon.
Boltgun.

So it seems clear the two options to have on the Shotgun and Frag as specialists, so they’re in. (Demo & Comms).

But should the leader be the sword guy (looks more like one) or standard Boltgun?

And should I put HTH in with this set up (with Combat)?
Or try to get some other options?

I have some spare DW shoulder pads so can make a few variant marines (though they will look plain aside from that and maybe a DW helmet). Limited in weapon choice, but usable none the less.
It would be Bolters, Power Sword/Maul, a combi-melta.


Any help on whether I can get a Deathwatch KT off the ground with these would be great!

Heavy Thunder Hammer. 19pts
Boltgun + Power Sword. 16pts
Shotgun. 15pts
Frag Cannon. 21pts
Boltgun. 14pts
+2 For cost of Sergeant 2pts
Total 87pts

You should keep at least 1 figure for HtH, if only to counterpunch when someone charges your figures. As you have 13pts left you could make the Bolter marine a DW gunner with Frag Cannon (+7pts), and change the shotgun to a Stalker pattern bolter & Power Sword/Maul (+2). That fellow could be the Watch Sgt. With a Stalker pattern bolter, he can act as a sniper keeping him out of HtH, but he has a PW in case of trouble, or for a "Hail Mary" in case the fight goes turns against you.

Alternately, the Watch Sgt. could have a Combi-Melta & Power Sword/Maul (16+3+2 = 21) since you have the parts available.

Danny76 wrote:
I’ve got some models available to me that I’m hoping I can make a good workable Kill Team.

Heavy Thunder Hammer.
Boltgun + Power Sword.
Shotgun.
Frag Cannon.
Boltgun.

So it seems clear the two options to have on the Shotgun and Frag as specialists, so they’re in. (Demo & Comms).

But should the leader be the sword guy (looks more like one) or standard Boltgun?

And should I put HTH in with this set up (with Combat)?
Or try to get some other options?

I have some spare DW shoulder pads so can make a few variant marines (though they will look plain aside from that and maybe a DW helmet). Limited in weapon choice, but usable none the less.
It would be Bolters, Power Sword/Maul, a combi-melta.


Any help on whether I can get a Deathwatch KT off the ground with these would be great!

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

That's 99 points (bolt pistols cost 2 points and I don't see an option to just drop them). Only difference that would have made would be the nids player would have had 1 more CP at the start though.

Thanks, forgot about the pistols

 Weazel wrote:
Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

I feel like KT with small units is specifically designed around taking a specific list for your opponent. One of the benefits of a small Team is you have a lot of options on your command roster so can set up for certain opponents.

That said, If you want to try to get a TAC list I think you are going to want to maximize the firepower of your guys. I prefer 6 models to help take objectives so would go with something like this to start with.

Sgt w/ Stalker BG - Leader
Gunner w/ Infernus - Heavy
Gunner with Frag
Vet w/ Powerweapon - Combat (powermaul) or Zealot (powersword)
Vet w/ bolter - Comms
Vet w/ bolter

I think the frag cannon is already a huge target so don't make him a specialist. Comms is really strong and he can give that +1 to himself or someone else. If you do a campaign mode then you might want to reconsider.

I guess I could make the Veterans more CC oriented as the Intercessors can only be ranged oriented really.

Is there any point in giving someone two powerswords? Does it give an extra attack?

 Weazel wrote:
I guess I could make the Veterans more CC oriented as the Intercessors can only be ranged oriented really.

Is there any point in giving someone two powerswords? Does it give an extra attack?

It's a gray area in the rules. Some say it doesn't matter, some say it allows you a chance to get an extra wound. Depends on how your group, LGS, TO, etc interpret the rules. Just read the earlier posts in this thread if you want to see both sides of it. I think FoxFyre and I laid down both sides of the argument pretty well.

My FLGS held a Kill Team tournament today. We had to use a TAC list for the following missions. Terror Tactics, Recover intelligence, and Sweep and Clear. I used this list. And since not every faction has their exclusive Tactics cards yet, we only used Core rules tactics.

6 man Team 100pts
Watch Sergeant w/ BG & PS 18pts
DW Gunner w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter 18pts Heavy
DW Veteran w/ Stalker Pattern BG 15pts Comms
DW Veteran w/ Shotgun 15pts
DW Veteran w/ PS & Storm Shield 19pts Combat
DW Veteran w/ BG & PS 16pts

Only won 1 game (3rd round vs Harlequins), and I did play the DW poorly. Although my 2nd round opponent will support me in that my dice also betrayed me.

Round 1: vs Marines (Lamenters tactical and Primaris ... hand painted shoulder pads too!), tied, but the tiebreaker is he got 1 man off the board while it was zero for me. Should had the Combat specialist fall back on turn 3 to have the chance to run off the edge turn 4.

Round 2: vs Tau. He was running lots of Stealth Suits, so hitting was a problem. And despite mostly needing 3+ to save throughout the game, only made all 3 saves! Also, six "1"s in a row! There are only so many re-rolls you can take.

Round 3: vs Harlequins. My win by a point. Played badly since I thought like Recover Intelligence you scored objectives per turn so deployed further forward than necessary, letting the Harlequin player change nearly his entire team turn 1. However, despite being outmatched in hth, I did kill his Leader and two specialists. This was enough to Break his team so he could not score objectives turn 4 when the game ended.

What I learned ...
1. Against superior numbers like Tau, use refused flank to minimize their numerical superiority. (Ideally deadzone some of them!)
2. You must have at least 1 CC specialist, even if only for counter-punching when the Heavy gets Charged.

I'm think in a TAC list like this, making the Sergeant a Primaris Intercessors Sgt with Power Weapon might be better than the Veteran Sgt. Same cost, but the Bolt Rifle is longer ranged, and the Sgt is 2 Wnds. Yes, it would better to be a ranged master or CC master, but since the tourney forced us to run generalist lists, a primaris generalist is better than the Veteran generalist.

Is that much close combat good with the power swords?

I was unsure how many to build.
I only have 7 bodies total, and some are already built up.. so I’m limited with remaining

What is your local meta? In the tourney, I'd have preferred Power Mauls, since the added Str would be better against the Tau and Harlequins (Str 6 vs T3 = WND 2+), and the Harlies are 4+ INV so -3 Armor Save is wasted. If your group has lots of MEQ, the power sword is better, but if armor is light or medium, and/or the majority of your foes will be T3, go power maul.

Danny76 wrote:
Is that much close combat good with the power swords?

I was unsure how many to build.
I only have 7 bodies total, and some are already built up.. so I’m limited with remaining

Yeah plenty of marines and such so it may be the way to go?

Danny76 wrote:
Yeah plenty of marines and such so it may be the way to go?

Sounds like it. IIRC, you do have a Hvy Thunder Hammer so that will help. Still if you are limited as to figures you could magnetize weapon arms. and change between PS and PM.

I could probably get a magnetized option between the two.

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

Separate. Ideally, the combi plasma gunner will remain unengaged, making the CC weapon a waste. If he does get engaged, have the CC specialist bail him out. However, if the Sgt is carrying the combi plasma (or any special ranged weapon), I do give him a CC weapon since he does have an extra attack, and also the enemy will try to headhunt your leader. The extra CP per turn is important in KT.

Danny76 wrote:

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

I magnetized my BS with powersword/maul and SS. I made a regular vet w. PS and reg vet with PM in case I want a more CC focused group. But you could also easily magnetize those arms as well.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Separate. Ideally, the combi plasma gunner will remain unengaged, making the CC weapon a waste. If he does get engaged, have the CC specialist bail him out. However, if the Sgt is carrying the combi plasma (or any special ranged weapon), I do give him a CC weapon since he does have an extra attack, and also the enemy will try to headhunt your leader. The extra CP per turn is important in KT.

Danny76 wrote:

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

Excellent. I shall do two separate ones.

Indeed regarding the Sgt. but should I just make him the bolter and blade, not bother with the plasma on him?
Tactically I mean

Yes, Bolter & PW. Here's a thought I had ... a Primaris Intercessor Sgt with PW costs the same as DWV Sgt with PW: 16 +2 = 18pts. That's an extra WND and a longer ranged Rapid Fire Weapon (30" instead of 24"). However, I think we're in the same boat modelwise: no Primaris and just DW/Tac marine figures. Still if one can find a trade or score a good deal on eBay, it is something to keep in mind.

Danny76 wrote:

Indeed regarding the Sgt. but should I just make him the bolter and blade, not bother with the plasma on him?
Tactically I mean

Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

Yeah that’s why I’m a bit unsure on Primaris being mixed in, you don’t get many DW as is is


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:
Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

What’s going on with all the BattleScribe files, I can’t see much on the site now, github was linking back to nothing on bs site..

It seems there's an issue with the repositories at the moment. I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.

Note file on my iPad it is then for the time being.

I think with them two guys I’ve got I can magnetise one to be CombiPlas + Bolter options (though not sure in his other hand, maybe just pointing or something I guess..)

Then the other guy to be Bolter with Sword + Maul options.

Yes, you are correct. Not the first mistake I've made and probably not the last. (The first was Stalker pattern bolter and Storm Shield on a Watch Sgt. Fixed it on paper, but had to wait for a 2nd 5 man DW KT for the arm & shoulder pad.)

 Weazel wrote:
Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.