Switch Theme:

Do you actually play 40k?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Do you actually play 40k?
I have played a game in the last year
I have played a game in the last 2-5 years
I quit playing
I have never played a game

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Slipspace wrote:
happy_inquisitor wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:


No you didn't. You spent the entire game doing the single most obviously good thing to do with the units and positions you had. You shot your big guns at the targets they are best at, with as many dice as possible to get the best odds of removing a model. I am sure you had different STRATEGIES in that you built different lists with different overall plans and combos. But you never once won a game with different tactics. 40k doesn't have any tactics. There was never once a time where you had to guess your opponents plans and try to subvert them, or lead them into a trap by baiting them, or anything else. You just shot all your guns to strip off as many models as possible as quickly as possible.


So when my opponent in my last tournament put some units into reserve to gain positional advantage and then I placed some units out of ideal shooting position to zone out their reserve units you are saying that i was not guessing what they had in mind and was not trying to subvert their plans or negate the advantage they sought.

Weird, both me and my opponent thought that is exactly what was happening.

I think sometimes that you play an entirely different game.


I think the problem is that, yet again, that sort of decision is being made with full information on both sides. Yes, technically it's a tactical decision to screen out areas of the battlefield against deep strike and I've seen weaker players not do it properly, or forget in the mddle of their first turn and leave a gap in their screen, but it's not a difficult decision you have to make, it's just a thing you need to remember. Importantly, it's a decision that has an objective correct answer. You can prevent it happening with a checklist of procedures to follow in each turn.




It was a meaningful tactical decision. I have to decide on where i want my main force, relative to that I have to nominate certain units to push out of optimal position and potentially sacrifice them to foil the apparent plans of my opponent. At this time i have no idea if my opponent is actually going to try to come in behind my force or is just executing a bluff to push me out of position, perhaps they are just reserving their force to protect it from a phase of shooting before it drops in and begins to act. All of those decisions are complicated by the positioning of terrain on the table and the existing positions of the opposing force. For every model I push out of its optimal position relative to the existing forces on the table my opponent has weakened my effectiveness that turn - but I make that choice to weaken their effectiveness on the turn that the reserves arrive.

The idea that I have full information is just wrong. I know what is in reserve but i absolutely do not know why it is in reserve, what the intent is or therefore where it will appear and what it will attempt to do.

If you think there is an objectively correct answer then I guess you must be winning every tournament ever - if it is all so binary and you know the answer why would you ever lose a game? Is that the case? Do you win every tournament out there - or are you perhaps mistaken and the game has more to it than you are seeing.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant




Tampa, FL

I play infrequently, mostly because I'm always changing my mind about army projects and feel my Death Guard, which is the only army I have available to play while I build more, is pretty lackluster. So like usually every couple of months, but I have gone like 6+ months without playing in the past.

Also, anyone who says 40k is tactically complex is an idiot or has never played anything outside the GW bubble, plain and simple. Its "tactics" are all just variations of the same thing rather than actual tactics like you find in other games. So yeah it has "tactics" if you consider tweaks to doing the same general concept as tactics.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/16 11:03:33


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block





Love the models. Hate the game (rules). So I'm a sort of fan..who doesn't actually play.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
If you put their king in Check you can litterally force a response. Those are not the illusion of choice they are litterally tactical decisions playing off the opponent.

Often the king is in place where there aren't many good options to go, so moving in the one space that won't result in a checkmate over the next two turns is a tactical decision? That's no different from WH40k at all.


Moving the king is not the only way to get out of check. You can also take the piece putting it in check or move a different piece to block the line of attack (if the piece threatening the king is not a knight).

If your king is in a position which is vulnerable but also limited in escape routes and your pieces cannot move to protect the king then you have already made previous mistakes and are being punished for those mistakes.


That's just splitting hairs. According to his argumentation the choice would still be obvious and thus not a meaningful tactical decision.

Putting a king in check is no different from charging a warboss into a LRBT.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/16 11:12:02


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






On average I get about 4 games per week.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




happy_inquisitor wrote:


The idea that I have full information is just wrong. I know what is in reserve but i absolutely do not know why it is in reserve, what the intent is or therefore where it will appear and what it will attempt to do.


This seems like another case of illusion of choice rather than actual choice. If it's a shortish-ranged shooting unit it wants to drop in rapid fire range of a juicy target. That target is usually very obvious. If it's an assault unit it wants to get as close as possible to a good assault target. That target is usually very obvious. If it's a long-range shooting unit it's likely just being kept off the board as protection. You can try to plead ignorance about why a unit is off the board all you want, but I'm not buying it. Likewise, the techniques to prevent deep strike aren't exactly rocket science and your opponent has very little influence over how you do that beyond trying to kill your screens. Theoretically these decisions can be dependent on terrain and relative positioning of units, but in practice that's not the case.

I'm not saying there are no tactics involved in 40k, rather those that exist are shallow and often largely negligible in their effects next to list building and match-ups. I don't play 40k tournaments, partly for those very reasons. To me it seems the people who are best at them are those who have the time and commitment to buy into the best army lists on a regular basis and who have the experience of playing against multiple types of different strong army lists so they can generate multiple mental checklists for the correct procedure to win those match-ups. This very thing happened in the later stages of the last LVO (quarter or semi-finals I think) where two people who practiced together frequently were paired up against one another and seemed to just be going through the tried and tested sequence of play required to maximise their chances of winning. Neither player seemed to have any options to try to alter the outcome beyond what they had already determined would happen. That's the very definition of tactically shallow for me - once models are on the board the outcome is very difficult to change.
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander




Halifax

It's funny, because in the Olympics, in swimming at least, the times people post in the prelims are a very good indicator of who is going to win in the final. But they still swim the final because who wins isn't determined by who is most likely to win.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Slipspace wrote:
happy_inquisitor wrote:


The idea that I have full information is just wrong. I know what is in reserve but i absolutely do not know why it is in reserve, what the intent is or therefore where it will appear and what it will attempt to do.


This seems like another case of illusion of choice rather than actual choice. If it's a shortish-ranged shooting unit it wants to drop in rapid fire range of a juicy target. That target is usually very obvious. If it's an assault unit it wants to get as close as possible to a good assault target. That target is usually very obvious. If it's a long-range shooting unit it's likely just being kept off the board as protection. You can try to plead ignorance about why a unit is off the board all you want, but I'm not buying it. Likewise, the techniques to prevent deep strike aren't exactly rocket science and your opponent has very little influence over how you do that beyond trying to kill your screens. Theoretically these decisions can be dependent on terrain and relative positioning of units, but in practice that's not the case.



The implied threat of a reserved unit is a tactic just as a pin or fork in chess is a tactic. To say that these are not tactical is to utterly refuse the conventional meaning of the word tactical. The same can be said of equivalent moves in 40K - the fact that a skilled player is more likely to anticipate the tactic that will be used does not diminish in any way the use of the word tactical for the gameplay in progress. If skill and understanding were not useful in understanding and countering them then perhaps the word tactical would not be appropriate.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

I play a couple of times a month.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Mostly building and painting this year. Constantly moving took a toll.
I am having a blast tho, I like what I am doing and I like enough most of the new minis.

I suppose this was clear from the fact that I am less harsh on my comment on the rule design. I kinda gave up on the game as it is, at least as a priority above the craft-hobby part.

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






I paly 1-2 games per week. Usually playing 3-4 different armies.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I recently rejoined the hobby having not played since 5th edition (guessing last game was more than 5 years ago) and am really enjoying 8th.

Played 3 games in 5 weeks.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






I played more games in the last 2 weeks than in the last 6 months. Apocalypse has completely revitalized the game for me.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





WA, USA

I generally play a game every 1 or 2 months, although I took a hiatus after Adpeticon to get some new models painted up and have been neglecting playing right now in favor of Everchosen prep. The lack of local tournaments has not really helped but that's beyond my control.

~ Craftworlders ~ Harlequins ~ Coterie of the Last Breath Corsairs ~ 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

I played my first game of Apoc today at 150 PL with BCB. I got my ass handed to me, but it was fun. Most fun I've had in a while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/19 23:44:16


"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in lt
Longtime Dakkanaut






Played a few back when 8th launched. Sold everything 40k related after

   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

 CragHack wrote:
Played a few back when 8th launched. Sold everything 40k related after


And why are you here now? Lol

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot



Canada

I didn't play at all during 7th. Since 8th came out I am playing, on average, one game a week at the FLGS and one game a week at home. After a decade of decline 40k now has energy from clean rules, great models and a solid player base.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I haven't played since right at the end of 3rd edition. I've managed to keep up with the game since then as I will at some point dip my toe back in. The main reason I have not is because as we all know it's a very expensive hobby, both financially and in terms of time needed/spent.

The financial side of it I can afford, but the time side of it I cannot still currently. I'm not the sort of guy that can play with model that are not painted up to my standards, and I'm a slow painter.

Contrast paints however may be the thing to bring me back in.

I read many of the books though as the fluff has always been the main thing for me in terms of enjoyment.

Lastly, if I did come back into the hobby, I'd ideally like a really open minded but close knit group to play with. I'd be far more interested in narrative campaigns with custom rules rather than playing straight battles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/20 14:15:55


 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Brookside Close

I started at the end of 2nd ed, played all of 3rd and dipped my toe in 4th.

After that is history till I joined dakka but I am only painting, I don't really have time to play

WIP - Blood angels Showcase
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?

 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

Collected from 5th through 7th. Had collections of Tau, Chaos Marines, Black Templar, and Necron in that order. I got about 4 games in, give or take. Slow building plus slow painting meant I didn't play many games. Then the Super FAQ of 7th hit, and I got tired of the crap ruleset and sold off everything GW I had.

I keep looking to see if anything interesting would get me back in, and honestly, the reasons I might would involve having easier access to my LGS (I moved and the new LGS can only be reached in stop and slow traffic half an hour away versus 15 minute freeway drive from before) an army I have an interest in collecting (plastic Sisters MIGHTdo it), and I was able to refine my WarmaHordes stock to what I need rather than just what I can afford. I still don't look forward to the ruleset as much, as it seems as clunky, if just less massive, as before.

On the other hand, Age of Sigmar and Star Wars Legion may divert me. A lot depends on time and finances.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gulf Breeze Florida

Depends, but I usually get 1-2 games a week.

If I go to the FLGS on Saturday, I’ll get 2 games in and leave because 2 is my limit before I’m ready to call it. Im always a bit of a grump if I push to three games.

If my Saturday is claimed by a Charity Event, a Con, or my GF just wanting to do something on Saturday, I’ll go up on my random weekday off and get one game in after I run my weekly errands.


 
   
Made in ie
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





I've practically quit playing, haven't played a game in over a year and have no desire to return to 8th.

Much rather spend my gaming time on X-Wing or Bolt Action tbh.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: