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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





Karol wrote:
Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?


I wouldn't say per se that the codex CSM now got, is bad, it's just that CSM got updated to 2.0 again, without actually getting 2.0 fixes unlike marines. (mostly in regards to traits really and some units)
However i might be biased due to (well not anymore really) mostly playing R&H.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Karol wrote:
Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?


We still have player in our group who packs up and leaves against any player bringing GK because they are so OP, because he got tabled twice by them during 5th. It is kind of funny.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I want orks to start using their big stompy monsters - a few flavours of squiggoth with a nice plastic kit would suck a fiar bit of moolah from my wallet! It would also give a nice snakebites flavour back to the orks.

I'd also love to see grots riding squigs, as a fast but terrible unit, where you roll to see if the grots or the squigs are in control each turn (not too detrimental, just whether they have to charge or whether they choose to). Perhaps a simple rule stating that if they are within 12" of a vehicle which moved this turn, they have to charge it.

Or have a "Squig" keyword, and state that if a friendly unit is in the same combat as a unit with "Squig", to hit rolls of 1 from the Squig unit instead inflict 1 hit on the non-squig unit - squigs don't care what they bite!


I'm digressing, but the jist is more flavour for the orks love of stompy & bitey things.

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
5/0/1 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


you might be singing a differant tune in a week or so.

Maybe. Maybe not.
The supplements haven't, as far as I know, done anything with regards to the Chapter Tactics--just given a bonus while certain Doctrines are active.

Having a multi-conditional(IF in Cover, IF farther than 12", IF Infantry) Chapter Tactic that can be negated by wargear or other <Insert Subfaction Here> is a bit...well, situational.
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





 Kanluwen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


you might be singing a differant tune in a week or so.

Maybe. Maybe not.
The supplements haven't, as far as I know, done anything with regards to the Chapter Tactics--just given a bonus while certain Doctrines are active.

Having a multi-conditional(IF in Cover, IF farther than 12", IF Infantry) Chapter Tactic that can be negated by wargear or other <Insert Subfaction Here> is a bit...well, situational.


Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?

Why shouldn't they?

You want the Space Marines treatment, you got it! Cultists come in Codex: Cultists, for all your Command Point Generating Needs!
Cultists not included, some Command Point Generating Needs may not outweigh the benefits of a Doctrines system. Consult your nearest Warmaster for details if Command Point Generating Needs Exceed 6 CPs. Some Heretic Astartes may have problems with Doctrines, consult Warmaster for details.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 12:42:53


 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?

Why shouldn't they?

You want the Space Marines treatment, you got it! Cultists come in Codex: Cultists, for all your Command Point Generating Needs!
Cultists not included, some Command Point Generating Needs may not outweigh the benefits of a Doctrines system. Consult your nearest Warmaster for details if Command Point Generating Needs Exceed 6 CPs. Some Heretic Astartes may have problems with Doctrines, consult Warmaster for details.


Nice one.
But you forget that RC is allready better at cp then cultists

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Morkphoiz wrote:
Orks are missing:

- A multipose/multipart Warboss kit. Seriously, how hard can this be? I am so tired of seeing BR-Warbosses.

- Characters with Options. Orks are individualists!

- Actual Character. Orks used to have funky Rules and Rules for kitbashed vehicles. The amount of zero-Option stuff is making me sad. Orks need funky and ded killy stuff which is as dangerous to the enemy as it is to themselves. The 8th ed Codex is just bland and boring.

Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


I love, I freaking love the fact that there are multiple ork units now that have a weapon that is called "Kustom (x)" and "Kustom" has been turned into a standard, branded subtype of weapon analogous to "melta" or "Plasma" that has a distinctive muzzle and appearance type so when it shows up on a model you can immediately see that it is a "Kustom" weapon and you know exactly the statline and role it is going to have.

Makes me want to gouge my brain out with a grapefruit spoon.

I am..somewhat of two minds about this, to be honest. On one hand, I 100% agree that as a Thousand Sons player I have this gigantic, humongously customizable 60$ kit box to create my faction's signature super-special unique HQ. And - everyone, do me a favor here, go look up the sprues for the Exalted Sorceror box, this kit is seriously a work of art, and since you are literally making only 3 models from the box the level of customization is ABSURD. Every helmet is unique, every torso is unique, you got separate capes, you got separate tassels, you got staff arms in all kinds of poses and the staff heads are all separated from the ends, you do only have 3 leg poses but everything's compatible with the normal rubric legs if you want to use those....it's a really wonderful kit.

Ruleswise, here are the options represented:

-Disc or no disc.
-Force Staff and Pistol, or Force Staff and Force Sword (btw that second option is totally useless and pointless so you're just spending an extra 10pts to lose your shooting attack and look cool.)

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.

I know the old refrain is always "But b-but if we have the options and they're balanced then we get to make choices and everyone is happy!" but, come on. When has there ever in the history of the goddamn game been a moment when there wasn't a single best build for every character with options, and if you don't have that build on your model you either have to rip him up, or you have to say "His sword is actually a thunder hammer. It's a really heavy sword. and his pistol is a storm shield, he's got a force field projector on it."
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I'll chime in for chaos. As someone who has built and played every faction of loyalist sm and many twice plus various xenos I have to say I have wanted to start a chaos army since 4th. Only the rules sucked so hard I couldn't bring myself to until now in 8th edition.

I currenlty play csm and I enjoy it. However, gw DOES have a trend of releasing chaos first, for a test run of the real business, which is then released soon after. Rinse repeat. While I'm not salty like longer standing chaos players I understand and agree with the sentiment. Its BS.


As for chaos wish lists:

-Make chaos space marines decent at more than RC cp batteries. The RCC almost did it, for a moment.

-LOS ignoring weapons. Its getting to the point where some armies can bring full armies of the stuff. If so then everyone needs some and not just on deredeos.


-Snipers same.

-Storm shield equivalents. I used to believe loyalist got shields because heretics got more killy stuff. Not really true anymore.

-drop pod equivalent. This has been a wishlist for heretics since dpa was conceived.

-A fast attack section.

-More than one flyer. Or make it worth taking.

-More than one transport. Or make land raiders worth taking.

In short I'd like gw to break the trend of making chaos this giant conglomeration of mostly gak choices with a few standouts we can spam.


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






1+ on the "Orks need options" statements.

Serious;ly, the idea that all the ork meks on all the ork worlds would create the same buggy, with the same weapons, firing the same type of squigs is simply garbage.

It only takes a little bit of time and a little bit of thought to make the things more interesting. Keep the standard builds, as they're easier to balance, but just give us some options - even if the models don't change. EG give us 8 types of squig, with points for each ammo type you want to carry on the squigbuggy, so you can choose how flexible you want the model to be. Give the scrapjet a few types of missiles to choose from (ground to air missiles would be a great option).

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
5/0/1 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





But you allready got all those KUSTOM dakka options.



For the record i am beeing sarcastic. and find the monopose mono build annoying

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 09:22:47


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Wait........... Why isnt all SM players saying MOVIE MARINES?

That was funny as all to play and in 8th it would fit better than it did back in the day.

15k+ :Harlequin: 4k
12k+ SOLD (to many armies)
5k
Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Primaris are movie marines. Hard to kill, vehicles are rare and they solve all problems with bolters.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






what I don't understand is the motivation behind not giving us options.

The implication is that they don't want people converting things - no kit, no rules. However, if you give people the option for a rokkit on a trukk, people would buy kits with rokkits in to be able to convert them.


I may actually write this to them as a suggestion - Kustom Job box set. Basically a box set with a bunch of upgrades and new options for the ork vehicles.

EG Trukk "Kustom Job" would feature upgrades for:
Rokkit launcher
Half-trakk
gun trukk
& a bunch of other options.

Then they could release additional rules for the upgrades and add some flexibility to the army one kit at a time. They already have the Battlewagon Upgrade sprue, so it's just an expansion of that.

Kits to add upgrades for would be:

Buggies: a variety of guns & rams etc, lots of people want rams on different buggies.
Dreads & Kans: more weapons, and perhaps ablative plating (heavy dread, move 5, more wounds, 2+ save), maybe something wacky like jump-packs for kans (roll a D6 each turn, on a 3+ move that much extra, on a 1-2 take D3 mortal wounds).
Trukks: as above, weapons & options alive alive-o
Fliers: Bomms & Guns, maybe a stormboy transport option that drops them like a bomm?
Battlewagons: bigger guns would be nice.

I'm sure that this principle can apply to other armies as well - I just don't know them well enough to comment!

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
5/0/1 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





the_scotsman wrote:

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.


Have to disagree with this.

I get that options will never be perfectly balanced but I'll still take poorly-balanced customisation over no customisation at all.

There's just something so depressing about having 2-3 HQs with completely identical wargear.

When I field the same HQ multiple times, I want to be able to represent different characters - not one character and his 2 identical clones.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 some bloke wrote:
what I don't understand is the motivation behind not giving us options.

The implication is that they don't want people converting things - no kit, no rules. However, if you give people the option for a rokkit on a trukk, people would buy kits with rokkits in to be able to convert them.


I may actually write this to them as a suggestion - Kustom Job box set. Basically a box set with a bunch of upgrades and new options for the ork vehicles.

EG Trukk "Kustom Job" would feature upgrades for:
Rokkit launcher
Half-trakk
gun trukk
& a bunch of other options.

Then they could release additional rules for the upgrades and add some flexibility to the army one kit at a time. They already have the Battlewagon Upgrade sprue, so it's just an expansion of that.

Kits to add upgrades for would be:

Buggies: a variety of guns & rams etc, lots of people want rams on different buggies.
Dreads & Kans: more weapons, and perhaps ablative plating (heavy dread, move 5, more wounds, 2+ save), maybe something wacky like jump-packs for kans (roll a D6 each turn, on a 3+ move that much extra, on a 1-2 take D3 mortal wounds).
Trukks: as above, weapons & options alive alive-o
Fliers: Bomms & Guns, maybe a stormboy transport option that drops them like a bomm?
Battlewagons: bigger guns would be nice.

I'm sure that this principle can apply to other armies as well - I just don't know them well enough to comment!


I doubt GW would do this. mostly because peopel would build thier own. the chapterhouse lawsuit scared them enough that now they want every bit of a kit to be on the sprue, very legal piece of war gear to be there and in several newer models it means limited or no wargear options where the model builds as 1 kit into that model armed as that model is armed (see the ork buggie)

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.


Have to disagree with this.

I get that options will never be perfectly balanced but I'll still take poorly-balanced customisation over no customisation at all.

There's just something so depressing about having 2-3 HQs with completely identical wargear.

When I field the same HQ multiple times, I want to be able to represent different characters - not one character and his 2 identical clones.


To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?


Only in explicitly fluffy games (Which is mostly where I bring those models as Esorcs tbh because otherwise they're the sergeants for my rubric squads because they're pretty). But they aren't always the same, I just usually give one guy Temporal Manipulation and Warptime. The choice of psychic powers does definitely make some difference, and I will never not cheer on any rules GW puts in allowing "your dudes" without no model no rules getting in the way. I love the new Exarch and Chaplain powers for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 12:51:23


 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





the_scotsman wrote:
 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?


Only in explicitly fluffy games (Which is mostly where I bring those models as Esorcs tbh because otherwise they're the sergeants for my rubric squads because they're pretty). But they aren't always the same, I just usually give one guy Temporal Manipulation and Warptime. The choice of psychic powers does definitely make some difference, and I will never not cheer on any rules GW puts in allowing "your dudes" without no model no rules getting in the way. I love the new Exarch and Chaplain powers for example.



Fair enough. And yeah, if wargear options are going to be diminished I'll happily accept options like Chaplain or Exarch Powers instead.

Tbh, this is one of the reasons I'd like Drukhari to get apsyker HQ - since Psychic powers are one of the few things that still offer a decent amount of choice.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





ThePorcupine wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.


I think I'd chalk this up to 'Grey Knight Syndrome' in that trying to make a solo army out of a single unit rarely ends well.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





ThePorcupine wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.


Yeah also, it'd be nice if we could have a little creativity back?

You know, since every option in our codex got reduced down to just different stat-swaps, I'd like to be the "fun, wacky rules that do crazy stuff" sub-faction of the Eldar again.

In 7th, when the rules dropped, we had:

-Bikers with single use exploding plasma bolas that could drop one big once per game kaboom. This got changed in 8th to a weapon with the Grenade type, meaning that if you built your models with a unit full of bolas well...WHOOOOPS, those don't do anything anymore lol.

-All three harlequin weapons with a fun, unique gimmick, as well as simple blades if you didn't want that. Now they're just three different flavors of stat-swap, and not a particularly meaningful one, meaning one weapon option is always 100% going to be the best, AKA the "Grey Knights Wargear Problem."

-A special pistol that wounded vs leadership. now we have a pistol that's S4 AP-2 Dd3, or, for one point LESS, one point LESS you can have S8 AP-4 Dd6 Melta. Hmm. HMMM. WHICH SHALL I PICK.

-A psychic power that allowed you to roll vs your opponent's leadership and potentially kill powerful characters by continuing to beat them by lowering their leadership with other powers and abilities. It was very strategic and fun! Now it's just a straight roll-off, totally random no strategy at all. I guess that power would be too OP in 8th? Well no. GSC get that old power, exactly the same.

-Another psychic power that actually put a limit on the range of opponents' weaponry, allowing us to play a risk/reward game where our army anted to get close, but we could protect easily against attacks at long range. Now it...gives a -1 to hit. So it's just always good. Great.

-A gun that made light infantry fething bonesplode into a small blast, then when they failed their morale test you got to move your opponent's units however you liked. That was awesome! Now, it deals D3 mortal wounds and gives -2 to leadership. No more using the death jester to move enemy models around tactically, now he just...does damage. But not enough damage to justify his price tag, just some damage. He's a gakky 60-point shuriken cannon who will never ever ever ever ever kill a character with his 24" range 'sniper' weapon.

Harlequins went from "zany madcap antics that are tricky to pull off but gave you tons of fun tactical play" to "I dunno just take 5 fusion pistols and fly around in an open topped transport."
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Jidmah wrote:
Primaris are movie marines. Hard to kill, vehicles are rare and they solve all problems with bolters.



Your joking right? Have you ever looked at the rules? Strength 6, Toughness 6, 5 attacks base, 3+/4++/5+++, Every is buffed to the extreme on 300pt guys, their Auto cannons are Str 8, Heavy Bolters are Str 7, Missile Launcher are Super-Krak missiles that are Str 10, and everything is 12" longer range, If i remember the Bolters are 36" Str 2, with good ap. They are basically playing with 8 Gmans lol

15k+ :Harlequin: 4k
12k+ SOLD (to many armies)
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Beastmen 6500

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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Karol wrote:

Strikes also have innate deep strike baked into their cost.

yes on turn two. And for each point in strikes you need something of same cost on the board. So you better have the side of the table with the good cover and a slow army as opponent, because if they swarm objectives turn one, you maybe deep striking in to your own deployment. But you are right that the cost of deep strike is build in to GK models each one of them, and you can max deep strike half the army. Which means the other half is paying for something they can never use.


Have you tried a battle against a heavy drop pod list with the new SM rules? You gonna enjoy it. I tried the last weekend. Is incredible how much battlefield can deny a couple of drop pods with this ridiculous broken footprint and some scouts. At turn one. This first turn deep strike heavily counter us. Specially in an army that wants as many units in deep strike as possible to make for it's highly-costed troops. Hell, is not possible to GI or shunt in turn 1 because almost all the battlefield been denied at turn 1 without been able to do anything.

I conceded at turn 2. There was nothing that i could have done. After the match I talked with the guy and I told him that I haven't enjoyed the game. He agreed as it wasn't challenging for him. Is not even fun to play against GK. Next time we gonna try to home brew some fixes from the GK or nerf the drop pods in order to make that the doors don't count as part of the model and can only use one in turn 1. At the end if you play with nice people is easy to agree and try rules that makes the game more enjoyable for both sides.

Otherwise I can always fall back to GMNDK spam again. And this brings me to what i really miss for the faction that I use to play. GK is highly anti-fuff . There are literally only 8 GM in the whole galaxy and almost never they meet together. Is even more seldom for them to go to battle and they send instead a brother captain. To me field more than GM is really difficult to justify fluff wise.

Also according to the lore the most common war gear for a GK when they go to a proper battle is a terminator armour. They only bring power armour when they have to do a swift attack or a casual fight meanwhile accompanying a inquisitor, usually in small numbers, like kill team size fights. But what is the only viable troop choice? power armour GK. Terminator armour GK are not viable. And at the end when O see a GK army that is just 3 GMNDK and a spam of power armour GK like if it was a big blob of cultists I feel that something is wrong in the rules to force a GK player to bring such an army.

Another point that I feel disappointed fluff wise is the lack of psychic power might. GK psychic feels lack luster fluff wise specially when you have already read some black library novels. On the novel of the gift of the emperor, a single GK squad was able to stop with they mind the blows of a powerful daemon weapon wielded by a prim-arch demon lord. Each squad member communicate with each other without talking by pshycic telepathy. They are able to coordinate each other in a degree that none other faction can. They are literally the most powerful pshycics of the whole mankind besides of the big E and malcador of the sigilite. And then when it comes to game play they only got a lack luster psychic table and a laughable baby smite. I wouldn't expect them to be as powerful in melee as for instance space wolfs, also i wouldn't expect the nemesis weapons to be that powerful against non daemonic targets. But I would expect that a single squad of GK to be more dangerous in the pshycic phase than a brood of zoanthropes.

When i play I'm the kind of person who like to spend the time to write the story from the battle that I'm gonna play, hell even astrophatic transcriptions, and send it though email to the one that I'm playing with so when we are laying the battle we enjoy it more. However with the current GK rules i feel that to do this is really complicated and many times I ask for tweaking the rules in the codex just to meet a plausible story inside the 40k lore (for instance make that the datasheet of GMNDK counts as a brother captain in NDK... sigh... is the next level of the "model counts as"...). So basically what i miss the most from my army is to be able to tell stories with the current rules written in the codex.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 20:52:03


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Have you tried a battle against a heavy drop pod list with the new SM rules?

was my first game after coming back from working all summer. Didn't know pods could drop turn 1 and what doctrines are. I got tabled in a single turn, before getting my own turn. In a way it was an interesting expiriance. 1 hour to the store, 14min deployment, wiped out in 10min, then an hour to go back home.

I wonder if it would be more interesting if GW removes strikes and termintor from the game. Replaced them with interceptors and paladins as GK troops. At least those two are highly different, and they could personalised stratagems for them.
   
 
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