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 Overread wrote:
Within the context of Leth's post he/she wasn't suggesting that ALL 3D printing was illegal nor that all styles of model are. There are clearly many legal companies making money selling alternative sculpts and designs. That's perfectly legal, no one is arguing against that.

Sorry, I edited my post with some examples while you guys were answering >_>

Those examples are all (far as I can see) legal. Yes you can see its a Baneblade and several other designs are very similar. You can tell what they are "supposed to be" but at the same time they are unique designs.

That they are made by a 3D printer; resin casting, metal casting or plastic casting doesn't really matter.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up!

Yeah, but that's what 3D printing for the hobby is right now, I've been collecting files and printing for over a year, and I've yet to find anything which would be considered illegal (ie a total point for point reproduction of an existing model.)

Pretty much everything that's out there is simply equivalent of the many perfectly legal third party manufacturers producing minis, just that you pay less and do the manufacturing yourself.

Therefore including 3d printing in the conversation of "illegal" behaviour at all is flawed unless you believe (incorrectly) that third party manufacturers are also illegal.

Yeah, how quickly people get defensive about it is kinda telling about what I was talking about.

I didn’t say all 3D printing is illegal, have spent more at shapeways for upgrade kits than on the models itself.

But when the intent is to pass it off as the official product, that is where the issue is.

Personally I see nothing immoral about printing parts or upgrades, it’s when it’s the full model instead of contributing anything towards keeping the game going.

 Leth wrote:
Yeah, how quickly people get defensive about it is kinda telling about what I was talking about.

I didn’t say all 3D printing is illegal, have spent more at shapeways for upgrade kits than on the models itself.

No, you didn't say that at all...

 Leth wrote:


Often it feels like people have to justify to themselves the illegal things they are doing like buying recast or 3d printing.

Nope. Not at all. Keep back-pedalling though, I love when people weave a tangled web like this.

Lol sure Thing buddy. It’s only tangled to you because You drew 5 extra lines when they walked a straight path.
When talking with real people, unless they say all? Usual,y it’s safe to assume they don’t mean all, especially when the context of the conversation would imply otherwise.

Plus side, I know someone else who has shown how much value they provide to a conversation and I can adjust accordingly.

Does anyone have a spreadsheet that shows the 2020 price increases in USD?

 Leth wrote:


But when the intent is to pass it off as the official product, that is where the issue is.

Where is the line though? Considering how derivative their product is.

Shinji wrote:

 Leth wrote:


But when the intent is to pass it off as the official product, that is where the issue is.

Where is the line though? Considering how derivative their product is.

I think broadly ( paraphrasing from the Chapterhouse (?)hub-bubb) its if a reasonable person would mistake it for a first party product, which in the case of gamers gets a bit muddy as besides very new players we can pretty much discern GW product from not GW so it would more or less have to be a 90% or higher duplicate (suspect law-talking folks could spin that out for days)

For example out of all the pics Al posted on the last page only the Death Korp officer gets close and even the the mask is 'off'

My 4 year old saw a White Dwarf magazine this morning and asked me what the games was (as we've recently started playing Heroquest)

"That's Warhammer 40,000"

"Does it cost 40,000 dollars?"

"...Yes..."

Out of the mouths of babes....

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Shinji wrote:

 Leth wrote:


But when the intent is to pass it off as the official product, that is where the issue is.

Where is the line though? Considering how derivative their product is.

I think broadly ( paraphrasing from the Chapterhouse (?)hub-bubb) its if a reasonable person would mistake it for a first party product, which in the case of gamers gets a bit muddy as besides very new players we can pretty much discern GW product from not GW so it would more or less have to be a 90% or higher duplicate (suspect law-talking folks could spin that out for days)

For example out of all the pics Al posted on the last page only the Death Korp officer gets close and even the the mask is 'off'

Fair enough. Although I don't get the appeal anyway. If price is an issue find another system. If it's estetics that you're after then likewise I'd rather play something where using alternatives is not frowned upon.
The last one is the main reason why I chose not to give them my business. Sticking only to one product line is just so terribly limiting.

I think the appeal of 3d prints is really another hobby than happens to have toy soldier application as printers arent replicators and require all sorts of know wots and tinkering to get a decent result, and of course some folk just like having slightly different stuff (or the wyswig guns)

Most people I know got into the game as a teenager, there were decent options, regiment boxes for £10 and the like. Yes it was long time ago but models have at doubled or tripled in price, or halved the contents of a box for the same money, etc. wages haven’t gone up in the same way.

I get all the arguments about costs to GW and whatnot, but the reality is that as my career has developed I’ve had significantly more disposable income in real terms - Yet I just can’t justify GW prices, I look and shake my head. I can afford it, but I can’t justify it.

£25 for a small blister with single figure (not even some huge monster) is ludicrous, golly and I thought the Batman Miniatures game was a lot. Funny thing is that some of the very same figures I bought over 20 years ago. I got my Abaddon in the great lead sale (how many you remember THAT eh? Which tells you how old that was, I remember That day I’d tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time). That ancient, undersized Abaddon was still on the website until fairly recently at many times the original price, and Abaddon was expensive even when first released.