Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/07/01 20:17:24
Subject: Sad news - reroll auras are not going away
TheAvengingKnee wrote: Well with the leaks today we can see that auras are still 100% a thing.
Aslong as the CM strat exsists Marines are going to be bonkers in 9th.
89 hit ratio degrading to 75% vrs a -1 to hit makes it impossible for most armies to surivive against that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/01 20:17:39
2020/07/01 20:20:42
Subject: Re:Sad news - reroll auras are not going away
Gitdakka wrote: Why do we even need rerolls? Hit-wound-save-fnp that is already 1296 possible outcomes for that simple roll sequence. You cant tell me this needs more granularity....
Something needs to be tougher? Increase its toughness, wounds, save or hit modifier. Something needs to be more destructive in some way? Give it more rate of fire, strength, ap, mortal wounds or whatever. Why is rerolls needed in addition to these already existing systems?
Because the game uses a D6 system.
In a D6 system flat bonuses have really big effects.
Rerolls offer granularity in the design if you want to give a minor bonus.
But rerolling 3+ to hit vs 2+ to hit is like no difference. 89% hit chance vs 83% hit chance, at the cost of time. Where are the effects so huge vs flat stats bonuses? I dont see the gain here.
3+ rerollable isn't the only roll being made in a game.
BS5 with rr1 39%
BS4 with rr1 58%
BS3 with rr1 77%
BS2 with rr1 96%
BS5 with full rr 55%
BS4 with full rr 75%
BS3 with full rr 88%
BS2 with full rr 96%
BS 5 with +1 to hit 50%
BS 4 with +1 to hit 66%
BS 3 with +1 to hit 83%
BS 2 with +1 to hit 83%
If you don't use the rerolls, your only achieveable values are: 33%, 50%, 66%, 83%. You can add 17% if you include mali. A total of 5 possible values.
By adding rerolls to the picture, you gain: 39%, 55%, 58%, 75%, 77%, 88%, 96%. If you consider the interaction with mali, you also get 20% and 30%.
By including rerolls you triple the possible accuracy values of a model.
While an interesting point, and certainly true. . . it's still not necessary. I don't recall gobs of rerolls for earlier editions and most of those editions played just fine. The added granularity isn't really adding to the QOL of the product, imo.
They could definitely reduce the rerolls, at least. I half suspect however, that the eggregious marine rerolls are simply there to reduce feel-bad moments for new players as they push their starter kits around. Playing either earlier editions or other armies (like My Nids) is so refreshing for their comparative lack of rerolls.
TheAvengingKnee wrote: Well with the leaks today we can see that auras are still 100% a thing.
Aslong as the CM strat exsists Marines are going to be bonkers in 9th.
89 hit ratio degrading to 75% vrs a -1 to hit makes it impossible for most armies to surivive against that.
I have stopped using the CM strat for that reason, I do run a couple smash captains now but I don’t castle up with a captain or CM anymore. If I were going to a tournament then I might but in casual games I have stopped using the CM strat completely.
Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!
2020/07/01 20:26:17
Subject: Sad news - reroll auras are not going away
TheAvengingKnee wrote: Well with the leaks today we can see that auras are still 100% a thing.
Aslong as the CM strat exsists Marines are going to be bonkers in 9th.
89 hit ratio degrading to 75% vrs a -1 to hit makes it impossible for most armies to surivive against that.
Haha, yeah. . . The CM strat has been the first thing that's happened in every one of my marine games since the start of 8th. It's such an auto-take.
TheAvengingKnee wrote: Well with the leaks today we can see that auras are still 100% a thing.
Aslong as the CM strat exsists Marines are going to be bonkers in 9th.
89 hit ratio degrading to 75% vrs a -1 to hit makes it impossible for most armies to surivive against that.
Haha, yeah. . . The CM strat has been the first thing that's happened in every one of my marine games since the start of 8th. It's such an auto-take.
It is way to strong, needs a CP bump or complete removal, when super stacked -hit modifiers were a thing it was a useful counter with a cap of -1 to hit roll it is no longer needed. The reroll 1s aura seems fine though.
Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!
2020/07/01 20:31:42
Subject: Sad news - reroll auras are not going away
TheAvengingKnee wrote: Well with the leaks today we can see that auras are still 100% a thing.
Aslong as the CM strat exsists Marines are going to be bonkers in 9th.
89 hit ratio degrading to 75% vrs a -1 to hit makes it impossible for most armies to surivive against that.
Haha, yeah. . . The CM strat has been the first thing that's happened in every one of my marine games since the start of 8th. It's such an auto-take.
It is way to strong, needs a CP bump or complete removal, when super stacked -hit modifiers were a thing it was a useful counter with a cap of -1 to hit roll it is no longer needed. The reroll 1s aura seems fine though.
I can agree with that. I hate the bubble, it's not how marines should be operating. I long for the days (4th) when Rites of Battle was not a reroll and just a table-wide ability that Captains brought.
yukishiro1 wrote: Gotta hope the CM strat is going away in the new space marines codex, it's just so utterly stupid that I have some hope that even GW realizes it.
Pretty much, or at least make it 4CP, that would make it a little more appropriate. Could also make it just add something else instead of converting to full rerolls, like reroll 1s and ignore the first -1 to hit penalty to units in range. Would still be useful but not nearly as strong as reroll everything.
Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!
2020/07/01 20:49:16
Subject: Sad news - reroll auras are not going away
yukishiro1 wrote: Gotta hope the CM strat is going away in the new space marines codex, it's just so utterly stupid that I have some hope that even GW realizes it.
Pretty much, or at least make it 4CP, that would make it a little more appropriate. Could also make it just add something else instead of converting to full rerolls, like reroll 1s and ignore the first -1 to hit penalty to units in range. Would still be useful but not nearly as strong as reroll everything.
It's too good even at 4 CP. Make its fair at 8 CP.
