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Made in se
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Indeed. Seems like 4 custodes has become the swear word of the game. I wonder if their rules gets FAQd/errata'd down at some point?

Still want to build a Talons Of The Emperor team at some point, but I'll probably be playing a 2+5 team most of the time instead of 2+2. To much cheese is bad for the game.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/27 15:35:19


 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 tauist wrote:

Only thing that's changed from KT18 is that playing on a larger board is no longer as straightforward as it used to be. If someone has a lot of slow moving melee only troops (poxwalkers), 4 turning points isnt even enough to get across the board.. I'd say 3 feet by 3 feet is perhaps the biggest board size that still works? Which is a bit of a prob for me personally because I've invested financially into 4x4 feet (realm of battle tiles, foldable 4x4 table). I suppose 4x4 can still work for shootier factions and certain missions, provided a turning point or two get added to the mission lenght. Not a prob, Open Play (Matched play with "houserules") is how we roll.


Well, the game is balanced based on the 22x30 board, if you're going to increase it, you're going to end up with a host of problems, not to say it can't be done, but you'll want to think of how it changes things.
1. As you said, some armies like Poxwalkers are slower. Maybe go to 5 turning points?
2. Range is still infinite. Maybe put a cap of 18" for most weapons? This will keep melee from being shot off the table.
3. Units more spread out. Some secondary objectives like Rob & ransack will be easier to achieve while others like Rout can be harder. Also ones that require you to reach your opponents DZ would be harder, but that could be modified again by changing to 5 turning points.
4. Additional Turning Points. While this may solve some problems, it also makes progressive secondary objective that you can get one VP each turn better than those that cap at 2.

My point with all this is really that changing up anything has vast ramifications and can easily unbalance the game if you're not careful. Honestly, if you're going to play 4x4, I'd just run 2-3 Kill Teams per person, I've been meaning to try that out myself, just haven't had a chance yet.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
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Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






I think increasing the amt of turning points is a necessity if one wants to play on a bigger board. Unlimited range is not really a problem as long as there is enough terrain, because LOS will be limited and in most cases it is trivial to set up the board so that firing lines dont run from end to end of the board.

Reaching the opponents DZ is a tricky one. Not concerned about progressive objectives becoming more valuable, since this will apply to both teams equally.

I do realize that changing the board size has serious consequences, but that's kind of the point, because some of those consequences are exactly what I want in my games of KT (Intensifying of the action towards the end of the game). 22" x 30" is so small that pretty much everything, from melee to grabbing objectives, can happen on every turning point, and that flattens the experience IMO.

I think I'll try 36" x 36" next time
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 tauist wrote:


Reaching the opponents DZ is a tricky one. Not concerned about progressive objectives becoming more valuable, since this will apply to both teams equally.

I do realize that changing the board size has serious consequences, but that's kind of the point, because some of those consequences are exactly what I want in my games of KT (Intensifying of the action towards the end of the game). 22" x 30" is so small that pretty much everything, from melee to grabbing objectives, can happen on every turning point, and that flattens the experience IMO.

I think I'll try 36" x 36" next time


Maybe slightly larger DZ's? But if they get too big, it somewhat defeats the purpose.

Yeah, but then it makes some much more favorable than others and people will pick the same ones each game.

Yeah, I agree. Right now, it feels like every turning point is the "end of the game" which is fine if that is the feel you want from your game. Personally, I think it would be fun to play some more maneuvering and strategy before getting stuck in the thick of things.

I hope you'll let us know how it goes. I'm working on building a large scale Kill Team campaign for some friends that will have quite a few larger missions so any insights on balance / potential issues would be greatly appreciated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/27 21:57:33


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I keep wondering about playing double KT using matched play rules.

Set up two different KZs next to each other. Long sides touching.

Doube the KT sizes and start with 4 CP instead of 2. Still limit the CP in Initiative to 1.

Players select one DZ in one KZ then get the DZ on the opposite side of the other KZ.

Deploy KTs in whichever DZ you want.

Play 8 turns. Draw 6 tac ops cards. Doube everything else I can't think of.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 redux wrote:
I keep wondering about playing double KT using matched play rules.

Set up two different KZs next to each other. Long sides touching.

Doube the KT sizes and start with 4 CP instead of 2. Still limit the CP in Initiative to 1.

Players select one DZ in one KZ then get the DZ on the opposite side of the other KZ.

Deploy KTs in whichever DZ you want.

Play 8 turns. Draw 6 tac ops cards. Doube everything else I can't think of.


so you mean a 44" x 30" board? That's okay as long as the "melee only" operatives in the teams arent slow moving (poxwalker slow).
8 turning points? Should work as well. Drawing 6 tac ops cards is a pickle, since each tac ops category only has a maximum of 6 cards - this means that everyone will know 100% reliably which cards their opponent will have as long as they know the category a team chose.

But by all means, give it a try! Learning by doing is often the best way to get a feel for these sort of things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tawnis wrote:
 tauist wrote:


Reaching the opponents DZ is a tricky one. Not concerned about progressive objectives becoming more valuable, since this will apply to both teams equally.

I do realize that changing the board size has serious consequences, but that's kind of the point, because some of those consequences are exactly what I want in my games of KT (Intensifying of the action towards the end of the game). 22" x 30" is so small that pretty much everything, from melee to grabbing objectives, can happen on every turning point, and that flattens the experience IMO.

I think I'll try 36" x 36" next time


Maybe slightly larger DZ's? But if they get too big, it somewhat defeats the purpose.

Yeah, but then it makes some much more favorable than others and people will pick the same ones each game.

Yeah, I agree. Right now, it feels like every turning point is the "end of the game" which is fine if that is the feel you want from your game. Personally, I think it would be fun to play some more maneuvering and strategy before getting stuck in the thick of things.

I hope you'll let us know how it goes. I'm working on building a large scale Kill Team campaign for some friends that will have quite a few larger missions so any insights on balance / potential issues would be greatly appreciated.


Absolutely. I'm all about KT21, will keep on posting my experiences for sure!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/28 09:10:44


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.


I'm 100% sure GW will release a new "Annual" style book with all the WD teams inside. You'll obvsly have to wait at least 6 months to a year to get it, but I'm sure it's coming.

As much as it sucks, this tactic is making me want to buy WD mags again after decades of disinterest, so it's working for them. From GW's POV, KT factions are a great fit as magazine articles, they add significant value to the game but only take a reasonable page count from a single issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 16:34:21


 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 tauist wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.


I'm 100% sure GW will release a new "Annual" style book with all the WD teams inside. You'll obvsly have to wait at least 6 months to a year to get it, but I'm sure it's coming.

As much as it sucks, this tactic is making me want to buy WD mags again after decades of disinterest, so it's working for them. From GW's POV, KT factions are a great fit as magazine articles, they add significant value to the game but only take a reasonable page count from a single issue.



Yeah, totally agree that it's working. This is the first time I've strongly considered getting a White Dwarf and I don't even play AdMech.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.

How is putting out new content for a game via optional "DLC" a bad thing for a game? It's not like you're going to need to buy every single one of them if you're not planning to build those KTs yourself.

It is a bit frustrating for players of those factions who just bought the Compendium, though. I would've preferred an article every couple of months with two factions, like a mini-campaign in between the quarterly supplement boxes. No new models, but an alternative kill team for each and some short lore about some conflict between them or something.

But I don't see how these WD articles are "desotroying" the game.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I would have thought more option through White Dwarf were a good thing? Or is your view being ‘forced’ to buy the magazine an unbearable expense?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Buying the compendium because "this is what you need" and now having "your factions rules are in White Dwarf, which is late in some countries and not available at all in others" out of the blue can be annoying for some

If it would have been clear from the start that Teams are added via WD over time it would have been better

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Tawnis wrote:
 tauist wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.


I'm 100% sure GW will release a new "Annual" style book with all the WD teams inside. You'll obvsly have to wait at least 6 months to a year to get it, but I'm sure it's coming.

As much as it sucks, this tactic is making me want to buy WD mags again after decades of disinterest, so it's working for them. From GW's POV, KT factions are a great fit as magazine articles, they add significant value to the game but only take a reasonable page count from a single issue.



Yeah, totally agree that it's working. This is the first time I've strongly considered getting a White Dwarf and I don't even play AdMech.


New Thousand Sons team coming in next month's WD as well.. And who knows if there'll be a new team in November's issue as well?

If anyone was getting into KT21 now, it might be a good idea to wait for a WD with the team you want to play and just get the Core Rules and that single issue of WD, instead of buying the Compendium. The WD teams will have faction Tacs Ops and more operatives & equipment choice than the Compendium teams, so more flavour for going Narrative Spec Ops with.

A sensible KT fanboy like me should just wait patiently for the eventual Annual compilation book tho.. there's also that BS app which will probably get updated with the new stats

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/30 07:16:55


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.


Is releasing regular additional material not classed as ongoing support?
I rather like it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 tauist wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:
 tauist wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Games Workshop is destroying Kill Team by releasing rules for factions in White Dwarf. Another classic move by GW to flush a what would otherwise be a vibrant and longlasting game community down the drain.


I'm 100% sure GW will release a new "Annual" style book with all the WD teams inside. You'll obvsly have to wait at least 6 months to a year to get it, but I'm sure it's coming.

As much as it sucks, this tactic is making me want to buy WD mags again after decades of disinterest, so it's working for them. From GW's POV, KT factions are a great fit as magazine articles, they add significant value to the game but only take a reasonable page count from a single issue.



Yeah, totally agree that it's working. This is the first time I've strongly considered getting a White Dwarf and I don't even play AdMech.


New Thousand Sons team coming in next month's WD as well.. And who knows if there'll be a new team in November's issue as well?

If anyone was getting into KT21 now, it might be a good idea to wait for a WD with the team you want to play and just get the Core Rules and that single issue of WD, instead of buying the Compendium. The WD teams will have faction Tacs Ops and more operatives & equipment choice than the Compendium teams, so more flavour for going Narrative Spec Ops with.

A sensible KT fanboy like me should just wait patiently for the eventual Annual compilation book tho.. there's also that BS app which will probably get updated with the new stats



I have also bought my first White Dwarf for at least 20 years. The articles on KT factions are quite inspiring. I think the strategy of a set of core teams in the compendium plus regular releases of specific teams in WD is a great idea. I hope it continues and doesn't fade out though. There are some quite obvious characters missing from the compendium that would suit WD articles, Ogryns and Bulgryns spring straight to mind as a Guard player.
I'm not overly keen on the big dual team boxsets as I have a lot of teams already and I may only be interested in one. I'll have to see what in the T'Au box. If it's a nice scenario book and some decent terrain then it might prove attractive, despite me having a nice T'Au kill team already.
I have neen using the Battlescribe app, which seems to be up to date. It meshes very well with the Datacard.app to produce some lovely cards.

Thanks for reading
IAK

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/13 09:41:11


 
   
 
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