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 Eihnlazer wrote:
I really do like the new KT core game.

I also understand the complaints, but most stem from the army building which will get fixed once each army gets its specialist teams.


Honestly I'm kind of skeptical that there actually is THAT much imbalance between the octarius factions and the normal ones. Basically I've been playing mostly against Kriegers with various compendium teams, and it isn't like when SM 2.0 came out in 40k and marines were suddenly like 'we get doctrines and superdocs and you get....oh, nothing, how 'bout that?' - compendium teams have far fewer options but it's pretty easy to go "oh wtf veteran guardsman teams have this many options and regular guardsman teams only have this many options???" but like.

The veteran team gets 10 guys and the basic guardsman team gets 14 guys. With the same base stats, and the same base weapons. The Veterans team has all guys with little special powers and abilities, like the "Bruiser Veteran" is slightly better at close combat and the "comms veteran" can shift an AP over to an ally, but...if you play them against eachother the other team is going to be rocking almost a 1.5 numerical advantage, with again, the EXACT SAME BASE STATS AND GUNS.

So yeah, the basic gunner sniper has Heavy, and only hits on 3s, and only does 1mw on a crit instead of 3 like the Veteran sniper. Because he comes with an extra half a guy.

Orks vs Kommandos is definitely a much less favorable comparison, basically the only advantage regular orks teams seem to have is the ability to spam, say, 4 burnas in one kill team while the kommandos kill team can only ever have 1 of each special thing. Definitely wouldn't have hurt to let every regular ork boyz/clan kommandos fire team have 6 members instead of 5 though.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Bristol (UK)

Krieg have the option to field 14 guys as well. They can field either 14 guys or 10 guys plus artillery/air support.
Krieg also get orders for free (Guard have to pay CP to use orders), plus get a variety of their own strategems.
I think Krieg get fewer special weapons though.

It's difficult to say how balanced Compendium teams are at the moment.
Custodes stick out as an immediate problem. Pretty much everyone agrees that they shred any opposition and are unlikely to suffer significant casualties. Although some claim they're still 50/50 on winning because their opponents can claim objectives for a phyrric victory.
TBH that sounds like a lame game regardless of how close the W/L might be.

Genestealers have also come up as potentially problematic, but others claim their perfectly balanced.
Somewhat surprisingly Marines seem to be one of the worst factions, with Scouts seeming to be easily the best of the bunch.

We'll have to see.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 13:40:41


 
   
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Ah, yep, there it is. I was missing the fact you could take 4 guardsmen as an ancillary support choice instead of the various artillery barrages and such. That does seem for sure less balanced!

"Clan Kommandos" similarly seem like an utterly worthless choice, they're literally just the Kommandos team with zero special abilities at all.

I'm guessing "Flexibility" is the little fig leaf they're hiding behind, like you could go for 7 guardsmen and 5 Scions and have some guys with better base stats and the same special weapon choices twice. And similarly you could have an ork klan team with still only 10 guys and no special bonus kommando rules, but it seems like you've only got 1 burna boy maximum and, oh look, here I've got 4, so what I'm gonna do is put my crap boyz fighters and gretchins out in front and have each of my burnas hiding out behind them ready to one shot any of your fancy kommandos that come near.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:

Genestealers have also come up as potentially problematic, but others claim their perfectly balanced.
Somewhat surprisingly Marines seem to be one of the worst factions, with Scouts seeming to be easily the best of the bunch.

We'll have to see.


Deathwatch felt pretty solid to me, and I feel like I honestly nerfed myself by not including any of the primaris teams with them (if you really wanted to power game 1 DWV fire team+1Heavy Intercessor fire team is probably the best pick technically? IDK) but man, even the basic deathwatch warriors were like "it slices, it dices, it chops, it screws, it shoots it roots it toots it does it all! which of these seventeen options would you like to use when you attack with your duder?"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 14:14:03


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Marines are fine power wise, as long as you pick your teams well.
But seem to have issues if you are limited or come up against tough opponents.

Right now I think Eldar are the team that needs the most extra care.
They are in a tough spot, with probably the entire team being just good enough too be brutal in a perfect matchup.
But outside of that, almost every unit falls short.
The heavy weapon seems to be way over valued at GW, and dire avengers I think could have had APL 3 and been fine.
Probably still be pushing mid with changes to both.

   
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This thread should be in Specialist games. And new KT sucks because of "geometry class" and other reasons such as no armour in close combat.
   
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You haven't been paying attention. They are COLOURS, not shapes

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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/26 15:33:50


 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
I totally love that the six ork ruins "slot" into each other to form one massive structure. We need more terrain like this.
Why do you think I bought two?

And speaking of the Ork terrain, this video popped into my feed a few hours ago. It's a pretty interesting take on that terrain, put to some very unorthodox use (READ: A lot of cutting!). Not painted yet, but it looks amazing.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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The_Real_Chris wrote:
Even the compendium marines have a bunch of options. Look at the tacticals, what model are you missing?

[snipped].


In the previous version, points allowing, you could have a team with a scout, an intercessor, a reiver, an infiltrator, a tactical marine. This meshes well with the idea that Marine kill teams are a mish-mash of individuals from different combat specialties being brought together to do something. In a marine force, the combat specialities are placed in different squad types, and with the splits between primaris, original marines and scouts it gives a range of different specialities, force organisations and specialities that could be tapped for a single team.

As I understand it, the new version you need to choose a fireteam all drawn from a single troop type. I haven't looked into what kid of weapon spreads you can provide within that squad, and of course you can create a highly customized set of models, but they are still from a single archetype. This will lead to a different visual feel to marine kill teams, compared to what you could do in the previous edition. Now whether this ws ever actually used in the previous version I don;t know, but the rules change leads to a player experience of change..

By contrast, with guard, all infantry is fundmentally the same, its the weapons that set the role. You could say that the special weapon troopers in your fire team have been drawn from a special weapon squad, while the lasgun mooks have been drawn from a few different regiments. this can all be smooshed into a single kill team. Its just a bit different with marines, and limiting them to a single fireteam restricts what you can put together into a single team, acknowledging that you can have a roster with a wider range of variation.

I'm not trying to argue one way or the other, just provide a bit of insight into my own thoughts

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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London

I think that is an issue for Primaris as its quite stark there.

For tiny marines power armour is power armour and you can fool yourself into thinking it is a mix of assault, dev and Tac, even if there is no jump pack (do death watch get jump pack options?).

For all that Deathwatch are the marine kill team specialists, so perhaps it makes sense that for the regular chapters they delegate the task to a squad to sort as they see fit.

Still I would be happy to try out kill teams chosen from the below, as long as the opponent was being fluffy and not optimising the choices.

Tiny marine team
6 Tac OR
10 Scouts OR
3 Tac, 5 Scouts - 1 Sergeant, 1 Special OR heavy weapon, 1 Scout heavy weapon, 1 sniper.

Primaris version
1 Sergeant, 4 marines chosen from the following
Intercessors
Assault Intercessors
Incursors
Infiltrators
Reivers

   
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Apple fox wrote:
Marines are fine power wise, as long as you pick your teams well.


How do you pick a fixed team of 5 dudes with no options well?

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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
Marines are fine power wise, as long as you pick your teams well.


How do you pick a fixed team of 5 dudes with no options well?


You have a roster of 20? I think so pick the appropriate team for the mission from that.
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
Marines are fine power wise, as long as you pick your teams well.


How do you pick a fixed team of 5 dudes with no options well?


You get a roster to pick from, they can counter pick well against a lot of teams. There issue is with diverse META. But as a set of rules, they are actually really good against a good deal of teams.
If you plan ahead well, only really teams like tyranids, Tau or tallens are a bit dicey in a campaign setting.
Basic units can be good, but marines don’t really have issues that elder don’t. And harlies are looking scary awesome with not really a huge choice :0

Lack of, or breadth of options is a bit of an illusion that 40k just sucks at, but kill team is a bit better about. It’s the space marines, and the tough custodes that kinda push the system.

Edit, Bolt weapons are actually good on the platform given.
And once they start getting there cool stuff :0 it could push them to quite nasty if a lot of the other factions don’t keep up well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 17:01:43


 
   
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Fair, I keep forgetting the roster thing.

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Marines aren't as inflexible as some might think. They have 3 different fire teams which all can be customized quite a bit - Deathwatch, Tacticals and Scouts. Even the primaris squads are more flexible than in 40K, since you can choose a different bolt rifle/heavy bolt rifle individually for every model, whereas in 40K all models in a unit must be equipped with the same type.

And then there's still the whole roster side of things. I'd say marines' weakness is not so much in their lack of options, but in their lack of numbers. I used to think scouts were the answer there, but scouts aren't really like marines, most ploys don't work on them, they are effectively closer to scions than proper Marines (which actually sounds kinda fluffy now that I think about it)

Remember, GW told us one big idea behind fire teams is the ability to slot your existing 40K (Crusade) units into games of Kill Team. So a mashup team from all over the place like in earlier Kill Team edition would have a hard time finding a place in 40K. While I don't love the idea, I have to admit I find the idea of combining 40K Crusade crusade & narrative spec ops KT2 games something I want to try with our group once we eventually get back to playing games.

EDIT: Forgot to vent about one more thing about the Compendium marines - Y no bolt pistols and combat knives? My Missile Launcher operative would greatly benefit from a pistol option, and if guardsmen have bayonets, I see no reason why the marines need to rely on fists instead of their combat knives.. You can't even buy them with the EP? Like wtf

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/26 17:43:47


 
   
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Also given that you can buy equipment with the standard points, even the generic equipment options can help drastically.
   
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 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm so irritated with how incredibly restrictive the list-building is I haven't bothered to read anything else about new KT. That used to be the home for conversions/kitbashes, now we're just stuck with the exact same "no instructions, no rules" crap that GW's slowly been pushing into the main game.



Our group is not enjoying 9th, but we each spent the summer converting kill teams so we were pretty excited for the KT. We figured we could use KT to scratch the 40K itch while we take a break form actual 40k, but the build rules kind of killed it for us too. I think we generally like some of the new rules changes outside of the building, but man. We each have a lot of very lovingly crafted KT models that were bought/built/converted and painted specifically to play KT, that now can no longer participate in either KT or 40k unless we just proxy/house rule/count-as everything, or just bring the 40k models that would be "legal," and that's just not why we in particular play KT.

So now we're on hiatus from both games. Hoping the build situation improves once the armies start coming out and it's just a situation of trying to get everybody on the same page for the compendium. Guess we'll see.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

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... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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 Flinty wrote:
The_Real_Chris wrote:
Even the compendium marines have a bunch of options. Look at the tacticals, what model are you missing?

[snipped].


In the previous version, points allowing, you could have a team with a scout, an intercessor, a reiver, an infiltrator, a tactical marine. This meshes well with the idea that Marine kill teams are a mish-mash of individuals from different combat specialties being brought together to do something. In a marine force, the combat specialities are placed in different squad types, and with the splits between primaris, original marines and scouts it gives a range of different specialities, force organisations and specialities that could be tapped for a single team.

As I understand it, the new version you need to choose a fireteam all drawn from a single troop type. I haven't looked into what kid of weapon spreads you can provide within that squad, and of course you can create a highly customized set of models, but they are still from a single archetype. This will lead to a different visual feel to marine kill teams, compared to what you could do in the previous edition. Now whether this ws ever actually used in the previous version I don;t know, but the rules change leads to a player experience of change..

By contrast, with guard, all infantry is fundmentally the same, its the weapons that set the role. You could say that the special weapon troopers in your fire team have been drawn from a special weapon squad, while the lasgun mooks have been drawn from a few different regiments. this can all be smooshed into a single kill team. Its just a bit different with marines, and limiting them to a single fireteam restricts what you can put together into a single team, acknowledging that you can have a roster with a wider range of variation.

I'm not trying to argue one way or the other, just provide a bit of insight into my own thoughts


My experience is definitely colored by the fact that I play deathwatch - primaris and all the other non option having factions like 'crons custodes and eldar guardians just seem boring as sin. Even with tzeentch daemons where admittedly the split mechanic was really fun goofy and cool I played one game and was like 'eh, ok, that's a neat little gimmick. mooooooooooooving on.' I could never see myself enjoying a daemon team long-term locked into just potentially 2 unit types.

IDK if there's really a way around that without making kill team something it's not intended to be, i.e., a companion game for people to play with one or two model kits total.

GW has a market for that with Necromunda and they absolutely do push for that market - even the monopose necromunda kits aren't 'no model, no rules' you have rules for a TON of stuff that has no kits available, but kill team is intended to be the 'entry game.'

The crazy thing to me is, as the entry game why, good lord WHY make the rules so unbelievably expensive in relation to the models? That's the thing that will sink this in my eyes if it does sink the same way it sank apocalypse. If 40k is going to be a product aimed at your whales to keep them in a purchasing loop then sure, gouge the absolute hell out of people for codexes that makes sense (business-wise, anyway, obviously it's ghoulish and gakky but, as a moneymaking method)...but to me Kill Team is absolutely a product where I would give the rules away....ALLLMOST for free. The only purpose of the kill team compendium is to have there be this "CHOOSE YOUR CHARACTER" type of feel where a customer can walk into a GW store and have a complete-feeling game where they can use alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll these kits over here in their games of kill team.

.....but those rules should just be fething free. I should be able to roll over to GW's website and grab that compendium as a brand new player as a free PDF, that thing is selling fething 50 dollar a pop model kits and 6$ a pot paints and 30$ brushes, the game design and graphic design that went into the compendium is going to pay for itself so, so easy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tycho wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm so irritated with how incredibly restrictive the list-building is I haven't bothered to read anything else about new KT. That used to be the home for conversions/kitbashes, now we're just stuck with the exact same "no instructions, no rules" crap that GW's slowly been pushing into the main game.



Our group is not enjoying 9th, but we each spent the summer converting kill teams so we were pretty excited for the KT. We figured we could use KT to scratch the 40K itch while we take a break form actual 40k, but the build rules kind of killed it for us too. I think we generally like some of the new rules changes outside of the building, but man. We each have a lot of very lovingly crafted KT models that were bought/built/converted and painted specifically to play KT, that now can no longer participate in either KT or 40k unless we just proxy/house rule/count-as everything, or just bring the 40k models that would be "legal," and that's just not why we in particular play KT.

So now we're on hiatus from both games. Hoping the build situation improves once the armies start coming out and it's just a situation of trying to get everybody on the same page for the compendium. Guess we'll see.


awww, someone busted into your house and burned your 2017KT books as well? Damn, sucks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 17:52:41


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
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I've watched about a dozen batreps by now and it seems like a very tight and fun game.

Custodes aren't nearly as terrorizing as people make them out to be. Yeah the stats look bonkers on paper, but there's ways to whittle them down, whether they bring sisters + guard or just straight guard.

I just want to get my hands on the rules and start playing games already


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
drbored wrote:
The major difference from last edition to this one is that I don't have to worry about running 3 different Aspiring Champions to make my list function.


The fallacy here is assuming that cutting your strong options somehow made your weak options better.


It's less about cutting strong options and more about cutting not-fluffy options. IMO, the teams are much more lore-friendly than they were previously. It just didn't make sense to have 5 sgts from totally different space marine squads all running together, no matter how you sliced it.

Instead, what they did with this game is make bolters and other things worthwhile to take. They're not the crutch they are in 40k. In 40k (just as in KT18), you'd bring a squad of 8 bolters JUST to bring the 2 plasma guns (or whatever other special weapon). This is why things like Special Weapons teams, Retributors, Havocs, etc are so popular. There's no "wasted" bodies or shots, you're getting pure special weapon shooting and few points are spent on a bunch of "worthless" bolters.

In KT21, the bolters, chainswords, and other base weapons are far from worthless. A lasgun can chip wounds off of a Custodes. A Fleshborer can eat away at a space marine. We're dealing with a different beast in KT21, so your 40k logic simply doesn't apply the same way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 22:27:18


 
   
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Bristol (UK)

I think KT21 is intended to be a game in it's own right, not just a gateway to 40k.

I also think the intention behind individual teams lacking flexibility is to encourage people to buy multiple different teams, rather than do one team very well.
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think KT21 is intended to be a game in it's own right, not just a gateway to 40k.

I also think the intention behind individual teams lacking flexibility is to encourage people to buy multiple different teams, rather than do one team very well.


maybe, but how do the combat patrol boxes measure up in terms of Fire Teams, slow boil and all that

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 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think KT21 is intended to be a game in it's own right, not just a gateway to 40k.

I also think the intention behind individual teams lacking flexibility is to encourage people to buy multiple different teams, rather than do one team very well.


It's intended to be its own system, but the primary market goal is absolutely 'to have a game present that people can play with warhammer 40,000 miniatures that only requires the purchase of 1-2 kits'.

If the 'meta' build for any given army requires a build that makes a person who bought 1 kit just almost always lose vs a person who bought 3-4 kits or who ebays a bunch of extra pieces, that is a failure of the system in GW's eyes (See: a million guardsmen with plasma guns.)

I got to play a whole bunch of test games yesterday with a friend who plays Custodes, and I purposefully took what I figured would be just about the worst possible teams I had easy access to. We tried Custodes vs all Tzeentch Daemons, Custodes vs all chaos cultists, Custodes vs Storm Guardians, and Custodes vs Storm Guardians but this time with flamers instead of melta guns whoops.

other than the game vs the melta gun storm guardians, which was....um...not...fair, the games were all pretty close. We never had a game where less than 2/4 of the Custodes went down over the course of the game. The game with custodes vs storm guardians with meltas I wound up getting quite lucky with the meltaguns and I one-shotted a custode two activations in a row, which was both of the storm shield guys on his team allowing me to just drag down the two remaining custodes with storm guardians in melee which thanks to their 8 wounds can't be one-shot just by the custode player choosing to Strike with one successful guardian spear critical attack.

That was the main problem I ran into with the Cultists is the spear guys. Basically the easiest way to deal damage to custodes is just to charge in and hit them because it starts with the attacker and you can just resolve one of your crits or hits to deal instant damage - you've got 4 dice in melee so you'll usually have 1 crit to deal 3 damage to them. But custodes almost always have at least one crit in their pool (lethal 5+) and the spears deal 7 on a crit, which is just enough to one-shot a cultist or guardsman. Against the shield custodes, if you get 1-2 guys in Engagement Range you'll be fighting at WS3+ or WS2+ and you're pretty likely to have 4 hits and sometimes you just get lucky and have 2 crits. If that's the case, they have to eat 2 attacks - if they parry you still have an extra attack to Strike with, and if they Strike they don't down you in one shot, so you can meat grind the shield boys MUCH more efficiently with melee attacks. Shieldstodes are quite good defensively for blocking high quality melee attackers, but the shield is actually a liability when it comes to true chaff units with W7 who can be insta-killed by the spear.

Basically you've got your 3 krak grenades which you absolutely want to conceal until the exact moment you're gonna use them (give them to your otherwise less useful Cultist Fighters who helpfully also have GA2 so you can throw 2 kraks in a single activation which is extremely handy) and you've got the capability to sacrifice a chaos cultist to deal either 3 damage to a spear custode in melee or ~3-5 damage to a shield custode in melee.

Otherwise, you've got the choice between Reliability with a flamer gunner and "maybe will stay alive for more than one shot" with the heavy stubber gunner, and surprisingly the leader's shotgun is a decently effective weapon for chipping a few wounds as well. You've got 4 cultists for each custodian and generally it's a matter of "how many custodians should I bring down to make the mission un-winnable for my opponent?"

Just remember:

1) if you fight, the guy you fought with is just going to be dead. That's the reality of the situation, it's the best way to deal guaranteed damage to a custode but you are sacrificing any dude you fight with unless you're rolling up to finish off a custode who's almost dead (because remember, you as the attacker get the first pick of resolving hits and you can just choose to Strike for guaranteed damage to kill off a custode with 2-3 wounds left). Remember that you CAN use 'shoot' and then 'charge' in order to get a guy into engagement range with a custodian, which prevents that custode from using Overwatch and potentially sets you up for a +1WS for the guys you send in to make the glorious noble sacrifice later.

2) he's only got 3 save dice. They're 2+s, but there are only 3 of them and he still only crit saves on a 6. Any attack you make that you get 2 crits? You're probably doing damage. Any attack you can make that rolls 4 or 5 dice? That's also probably doing damage. Whittling down a custode is very do-able, and a weapon like a krak grenade is pretty likely to chunk off 8 or 9 damage.

The game with cultists was a very close defeat with 2 dead custodes, the game with the pink horrors was a pretty easy victory since Split and the horror's decent quality BS3+ 3/4 shooting attack just drowned the 'stodes in action economy, the game with the storm guardians with meltas was a hilarious stomp with all custodes dead, and the game with the storm guardians with flamers was a close win with 3 custodes down, one finally dying right at the end from being slowly whittled by Rend fishing and flamers.

Honestly, not having played them, I think the eldar guardians look like a pretty fething rad team albeit a pretty simple one. You get (effectively) a 4-man team, one of which is effectively a space marine heavy gunner who has a "second health bar" as an eldar guardian once your opponent kills the platform. And Eldar Guardians are not bad at all, 4A BS2+ 4/5 with rending is a pretty mean profile. It almost feels like why would I ever choose to play as Dire Avengers when they have the exact same statline just with Balanced on their guns and...better Overwatch, which as a bare minimum 8-man team you wonder when you'll really be making much use of that.

Rangers seem straight-up obnoxious, just a team of 4 snipers with Silent, thats gonna suck to deal with. Rangers+Anything else seems like a pretty solid team for Eldar. Rangers+Storm Guardians with a Flamer with a Ranger leader, Rangers + Guardians with a dakka platform with a ranger leader, Rangers+Dire Avengers with an Exarch maybe good though I think i'd prefer Avengers+Guardians with a platform.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/27 15:22:32


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 the_scotsman wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think KT21 is intended to be a game in it's own right, not just a gateway to 40k.

I also think the intention behind individual teams lacking flexibility is to encourage people to buy multiple different teams, rather than do one team very well.


It's intended to be its own system, but the primary market goal is absolutely 'to have a game present that people can play with warhammer 40,000 miniatures that only requires the purchase of 1-2 kits'.

If the 'meta' build for any given army requires a build that makes a person who bought 1 kit just almost always lose vs a person who bought 3-4 kits or who ebays a bunch of extra pieces, that is a failure of the system in GW's eyes (See: a million guardsmen with plasma guns.)



Ironically, that's a win in GW's eyes in terms of business perspective. Getting people to buy more kits to fill out more slots when a person only needs 1 model out of each kit is fantastic. That player might even be more likely to build the rest of the kit and have a 500 point force of something to play for 40k.

It's a failure in the Community's eyes, however, and to the 'skirmish wargaming' ethos of low investment need for your gaming fun.

What they've done now is create a system that still gets you to get 1-5 kits (depending on faction) and has aligned the Fire Team builds to be much more closely related to what you might find in a 40k game. A squad of Chaos Marines with 1 Gunner, 1 aspiring champion, 1 heavy gunner, 1 chaos icon, and 6 bolters is the same as you'd run in 40k as you would also have for a Kill Team Roster. It doesn't quite work out 1 to 1 in some cases, but the intention is definitely there. Every Space Marine squad resembles exactly what you'd have in 40k. It works the other way, too. Squads that you've built for 40k will likely slot right into Kill Team with little to no effort.

Now, this is just the Compendium, and judging by the responses of playtesters and a few others, they will be building on the Roster/KillTeam/FireTeam system, which hopefully will help the game feel more Skirmish and less 40k squad-lite, at least in terms of Roster build.

This is the challenge for GW if they want to see this game succeed, and for all intents and purposes, a business should be hoping that their investments succeed. They need to give people a reason to buy the upcoming books, kits, and terrain, and keeping the rules solid and fun, the balance steady, and the community happy is the way to do that.
   
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I am somewhat curious what they'll do for Legion and Chapters and the like for the Compendium, since it'd be odd to make those keywords without addressing them at some point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/28 00:04:46


 
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I am somewhat curious what they'll do for Legion and Chapters and the like for the Compendium, since it'd be odd to make those keywords without addressing them at some point.


My guess is the same as they do for 40k: x legion/chapter/forgeworld/order will get a re-roll 1 dice of 1 in the shooting phase. y legion/chapter/forgeworld/order will get a re-roll 1 dice of 1 in the fight phase. z legion/chapter/forgeworld/order can dash an extra inch.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if they actually gave some flare and flavor to a lot of the legion/chapter/etc traits. Night Lords, for example, really have nothing to do against morale in this edition (morale just isn't a thing) but they might instead have a once per turn thing that affects an opposing unit's APL while they cower in fear or something.
   
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my opinion of the new killteam summed up in one word is : trash. I will continue with the last edition of it, I actually enjoyed that one.
   
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Having seen a few battreps now (GMG) I like it a lot more than I thought I would. Shapes are still dumb af of course. My other issue is there's some unnecessary moving parts to keep track of (too many subsystems like equipment, ploys, etc) and the secondary objective cards are clunky to pick and each seems to be a wall of text.

In the actual gameplay, it seems to go smooth, with the one weird rules artefact being that a model on their last 1-2 life will be automatically slain if melee'd as the attacker can apply even a single success first with absolutely no recourse no matter what the defender rolls.

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
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Not sure if it’s that weird. More like a coup de gras of a trooper really on last reserves.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Yeah, you need to remember than "1-2 wounds remaining" in Kill Team means the model has sustained heavy injuries already, is barely standing etc so kinda makes sense that anyone attacking them will make short work of them. When a model is down to half their wounds, they are already considered to be seriously injured.

Just returned from the local GW with my copy of Octarius. The box is heavy as sin! Metal gauge is actually quite decent looking IRL, wouldn't mind getting another one of those..
   
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So since I've started the thread I've had the opportunity to try the new kill team. Thanks to everyone for giving their opinion.

I am personally not as fond of the new system. I do not like the combat system at all, because the parry option is in practice almost useless.
Most of the time it's just: I crit you, you almost die so you get one last hit in and then I kill you. Really boring.

Also custodes are seriously OP. Maybe me and my buddies don't grasp the system fully yet, but whenever I brought the golden boys it wasn't even a contest.
The fight/shoot twice and ignore crit dmg strats are just straight up bonkers.

Edit: the new ork terrain is awsome though. Gorgeously sculpted and really quite modular. The ork kommandos and kriegers are nice too. So just regarding models, the box is awseome imo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/28 14:59:00


 
   
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 tauist wrote:
Yeah, you need to remember than "1-2 wounds remaining" in Kill Team means the model has sustained heavy injuries already, is barely standing etc so kinda makes sense that anyone attacking them will make short work of them. When a model is down to half their wounds, they are already considered to be seriously injured.

Just returned from the local GW with my copy of Octarius. The box is heavy as sin! Metal gauge is actually quite decent looking IRL, wouldn't mind getting another one of those..


Well the same half dead dude dodges krak missles just as well as if he were at full health tho.

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

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