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Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Gert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

First and foremost mussolini was legitimised by the king, which still had far more authorithy and legitimacy than most political parties in italy left after the desaterous disarmament efforts.
Also that stunt nearly cost him his position and i rekon he would've gotten removed if the king had the balls, alas like most authoritharian systems relying upon a single person at the head, that person easily is manipulated and freightened.

Yes, I did say that Victor Emmanuel put Mussolini in power but that didn't automatically mean that every single person had to cooperate with the fascists. The king and the establishment thought they could control Mussolini and use him, instead Mussolini used the system they gave him to essentially remove the people that put him into power from being a threat to the fascists.
The king had a large degree of power but not enough that he could entirely subvert parliament and the will of the people. Those that helped Mussolini into power by legitimising his party and cooperating with them didn't matter when a year into his takeover, Mussolini flat out abolished parliament and outlawed all other parties.

Power is irrelevant in crisis of political systems, Legitimacy is the currency you expend there and far more important. And the italian parliament was comparatively to modern understanding of democracy a joke as was its voting system. indeed it was even at the time a joke. cue Wolfgang Schieders nice book about italian fascims.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:

And just because someone can and has broadcasted their oppinion doesn't make it valid or more accurately legitimate, cue flat earthers, their views are easily disprovable and should be done so by everyone.
And if they want to use their normal strategies of violence, well, there's the police force and the monopoly of power no?

Flat Earthers don't want to remove the democratic system or enact genocide though do they? There's no Flat Earther Party in the UK parliamentary system, there are fascists.
And as for the police/armed forces, they have always been hotbeds for conservative views and are often the first port of call for fascists and neo-nazis looking to garner support. The British Army got in some hot water recently when one of its barracks hosted a well-known Islamaphobe fascist and all the recruits had pictures with them.


A cult is a cult. ideologies are cults, and some of the flat earther theories are quite far reaching in consequence.
As for the later? Conservative =/= fascist, indeed some of the most vehement opposition to them were here conservatives and socialists. Secondly most ideologies have some institutions they dominate or attempt to gert.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




engage them in debate and show them to be utter utter idiots guess what happens

People are shown time and time again that horse paste doesn't work. That earth isn't flat. And yet the number of guilible or voluntarily ignorant people stays the same or grows.

And not like the nazis don't, oh..idk, lie? constantly? Remember, Jews rule the world and German army in 1918 was backstabbed by them, that's the only reason Germany lost. And gypsies carry typhus and spread it to honest citizens.
   
Made in ca
Pustulating Plague Priest






 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
You could've made your point more polite. On many an occaision GoldenHorde.


Yeah I'm going to be polite to someone who views me as a complete write off.




Its nice to be polite when engaging in discourse online (or in person) because its part of your basic manners and common decent behaviour. A basic standard that most should aim to uphold in most situations. Especially online where your words remain in the long term. Even if you're being insulted, if you are polite that has an impact on how others read your posts and build their impression of your character and who you are.


I have the manners to take them at their allegation.
It is time for them to back up their words or retract.


At a curiosity, what kind of material specifically are you looking for as proof when someone is trying to back up their statements? I ask only to get an understanding for future reference.


It's their premise of allegation not mine. They can produce anything they want

Right now its fairy dust.


Well, yes. They can produce anything. I’m just wondering what kinds of proof to produce, and at what quantity.

Apologies, but I see an opportunity to learn something new and would like to take it. Your call whether you will indulge my curiosity, but it never hurts to ask.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/29 15:53:47


Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Not Online!!! wrote:
A cult is a cult. ideologies are cults, and some of the flat earther theories are quite far reaching in consequence.

Yet there is not Flat Earther political party in power is there? There are people in certain political parties in certain nations who absolutely are fascist or neo-nazis.

As for the later? Conservative =/= fascist, indeed some of the most vehement opposition to them were here conservatives and socialists. Secondly most ideologies have some institutions they dominate or attempt to gert.

1 - I didn't say the Tories were fascists, I was actually referring to the fact that Britain First is now back as a registered political party.
2 - It's "Gert", big G
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cronch wrote:
engage them in debate and show them to be utter utter idiots guess what happens

People are shown time and time again that horse paste doesn't work. That earth isn't flat. And yet the number of guilible or voluntarily ignorant people stays the same or grows.

And not like the nazis don't, oh..idk, lie? constantly? Remember, Jews rule the world and German army in 1918 was backstabbed by them, that's the only reason Germany lost. And gypsies carry typhus and spread it to honest citizens.


Ivermectin isn't simply horse paste. Calling it that is engaging in propaganda regardless as to whether or not it doesn't work. I'm not arguing that it does work or is not laughable to use. When you casually use propaganda such as that it directly impacts the respectability of the rest of your comments. Also, you're just reenforcing the beliefs of those who use it because instead of providing meaningful data and arguments as to why it doesn't work you're parroting talking points that they've already guarded themselves against.

Aside from that you are correct in that discource doesn't necessarily change your direct opponent's viewpoint. However, and this is something that is strangely ignored, discourse does impact outsider's viewpoints. The debate isn't for the benefit of those engaged in it, but for those outside of it, who are either reading or listening to it. Calling flat-earthers morons achieves nothing. You, or someone else, actually need to spell out why they are wrong or at least point to a resource that does the same.


The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd think most people have history classes in school and don't need further elaborating why Nazis Are Bad. Apparently education is not enough and now we have to spend time arguing the obvious....the obvious that wouldn't need to be argued at all if the nazis weren't given platform to voice their beliefs.

As for ivermectin, I didn't know we have horse paste gourmets here in this thread that need convincing.
Should I also do a presentation on why Killing Jews is Bad in case we have a wavering nazi in this thread?
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Gert wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
A cult is a cult. ideologies are cults, and some of the flat earther theories are quite far reaching in consequence.

Yet there is not Flat Earther political party in power is there? There are people in certain political parties in certain nations who absolutely are fascist or neo-nazis.

As for the later? Conservative =/= fascist, indeed some of the most vehement opposition to them were here conservatives and socialists. Secondly most ideologies have some institutions they dominate or attempt to gert.

1 - I didn't say the Tories were fascists, I was actually referring to the fact that Britain First is now back as a registered political party.
2 - It's "Gert", big G


you bri'ish you ain't got no big letters mate

edit: what they are back? No better way to put them on the pedestal for question time again

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:00:05


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

trexmeyer wrote:
Cronch wrote:
engage them in debate and show them to be utter utter idiots guess what happens

People are shown time and time again that horse paste doesn't work. That earth isn't flat. And yet the number of guilible or voluntarily ignorant people stays the same or grows.

And not like the nazis don't, oh..idk, lie? constantly? Remember, Jews rule the world and German army in 1918 was backstabbed by them, that's the only reason Germany lost. And gypsies carry typhus and spread it to honest citizens.


Ivermectin isn't simply horse paste. Calling it that is engaging in propaganda regardless as to whether or not it doesn't work. I'm not arguing that it does work or is not laughable to use. When you casually use propaganda such as that it directly impacts the respectability of the rest of your comments. Also, you're just reenforcing the beliefs of those who use it because instead of providing meaningful data and arguments as to why it doesn't work you're parroting talking points that they've already guarded themselves against.

Aside from that you are correct in that discource doesn't necessarily change your direct opponent's viewpoint. However, and this is something that is strangely ignored, discourse does impact outsider's viewpoints. The debate isn't for the benefit of those engaged in it, but for those outside of it, who are either reading or listening to it. Calling flat-earthers morons achieves nothing. You, or someone else, actually need to spell out why they are wrong or at least point to a resource that does the same.



This is exactly correct, it is also what happened in the example I gave, the radicals will almost never change their stance be it Natsocs, Communists, Fascists or socialists and the myriad other cults and neo religions that have cropped up over the last 100 years, the discourse however while challenging them directly does de legitimise their beliefs, you shine a light on the BS and others see it then realise they were taken for a ride or lied to.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant and even believing that I still call for the bar on politics in this forum because as I said before I do not adhere to the fascistic "the personal is political" and some space are NOT political no matter how much the radical progs want it to be.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut



Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
You could've made your point more polite. On many an occaision GoldenHorde.


Yeah I'm going to be polite to someone who views me as a complete write off.




Its nice to be polite when engaging in discourse online (or in person) because its part of your basic manners and common decent behaviour. A basic standard that most should aim to uphold in most situations. Especially online where your words remain in the long term. Even if you're being insulted, if you are polite that has an impact on how others read your posts and build their impression of your character and who you are.


I have the manners to take them at their allegation.
It is time for them to back up their words or retract.


At a curiosity, what kind of material specifically are you looking for as proof when someone is trying to back up their statements? I ask only to get an understanding for future reference.


It's their premise of allegation not mine. They can produce anything they want

Right now its fairy dust.


Well, yes. They can produce anything. I’m just wondering what kinds of proof to produce, and at what quantity.

Apologies, but I see an opportunity to learn something new and would like to take it. Your call whether you will indulge my curiosity, but it never hurts to ask.


Bro, they need to produce at least one thing tied to reality.

Right now in their minds they are in keyboard warrior fantasy land where they are super duper mighty mighty nazi-fash fighters lvl'ing up on the daily

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cronch wrote:
I'd think most people have history classes in school and don't need further elaborating why Nazis Are Bad. Apparently education is not enough and now we have to spend time arguing the obvious....the obvious that wouldn't need to be argued at all if the nazis weren't given platform to voice their beliefs.

As for ivermectin, I didn't know we have horse paste gourmets here in this thread that need convincing.
Should I also do a presentation on why Killing Jews is Bad in case we have a wavering nazi in this thread?


This is more evidence that the blanket ban on politics in OT should be expanded upon. The sheer amount of hatred and intellectual dishonesty that exists online now renders discussion largely moot if you, the forum in question, is unwilling to tolerate toxic diatribe. Edit: I don't have an issue with people being rude, but DakkaDakka as a site does. That's why politics in OT was shut down.

Edit2: Cronch is currently trying to get banned by trolling in OT.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:15:13


The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Probably because the discussion is literally "should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live". Some people in this thread seem to think this is some sort of theoretical excercise in free speech, not an actual discussion on the (supposedly inalienable) right to live that these people are trying to have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:16:00


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cronch wrote:
Probably because the discussion is literally "should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live". Some people in this thread seem to think this is some sort of theoretical excercise in free speech, not an actual discussion on the (supposedly inalienable) right to live.


That's not the discussion. I don't know if you genuinely missed that or if you are willfully twisting facts to suit your agenda. The issue has been spelled out multiple times across the two threads. Go back and read Insaniak's responses.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in ca
Pustulating Plague Priest






 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
You could've made your point more polite. On many an occaision GoldenHorde.


Yeah I'm going to be polite to someone who views me as a complete write off.




Its nice to be polite when engaging in discourse online (or in person) because its part of your basic manners and common decent behaviour. A basic standard that most should aim to uphold in most situations. Especially online where your words remain in the long term. Even if you're being insulted, if you are polite that has an impact on how others read your posts and build their impression of your character and who you are.


I have the manners to take them at their allegation.
It is time for them to back up their words or retract.


At a curiosity, what kind of material specifically are you looking for as proof when someone is trying to back up their statements? I ask only to get an understanding for future reference.


It's their premise of allegation not mine. They can produce anything they want

Right now its fairy dust.


Well, yes. They can produce anything. I’m just wondering what kinds of proof to produce, and at what quantity.

Apologies, but I see an opportunity to learn something new and would like to take it. Your call whether you will indulge my curiosity, but it never hurts to ask.


Bro, they need to produce at least one thing tied to reality.

Right now in their minds they are in keyboard warrior fantasy land where they are super duper mighty mighty nazi-fash fighters lvl'ing up on the daily



Well of course it needs to be realistic. It’s just nice to know from what sources one should draw from. I guess past posts are the obvious source of proof that’s tied to reality, just thought there would be a bit more variety than that. I was surprised to read that it only needs to be at least one thing. For a second, I was expecting something at the minimum length of a textbook bibliography! Anyway, apologies for the thread tangent, and thanks for the response.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:27:10


Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Cronch wrote:
"should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live"


yes, so we should bar any religion or ideology that engaged in such things yes?
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






There's this nonsense idea that because discussion and debate are vital to democracy that all topics should be up for discussion and debate.
If someone were to say to me "I think we should spend less money on global aid and more money on fixing the social inequalities in our own country" I would have a discussion or a debate with them.
If someone were to say "I think that all LGBTQ+ people should be put to death", they're getting laughed at and then violently ejected from my home.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to spew hateful bile and promote your ideology of genocide. It also does not mean freedom from consequences such as when I throw you out the door.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut



Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
You could've made your point more polite. On many an occaision GoldenHorde.


Yeah I'm going to be polite to someone who views me as a complete write off.




Its nice to be polite when engaging in discourse online (or in person) because its part of your basic manners and common decent behaviour. A basic standard that most should aim to uphold in most situations. Especially online where your words remain in the long term. Even if you're being insulted, if you are polite that has an impact on how others read your posts and build their impression of your character and who you are.


I have the manners to take them at their allegation.
It is time for them to back up their words or retract.


At a curiosity, what kind of material specifically are you looking for as proof when someone is trying to back up their statements? I ask only to get an understanding for future reference.


It's their premise of allegation not mine. They can produce anything they want

Right now its fairy dust.


Well, yes. They can produce anything. I’m just wondering what kinds of proof to produce, and at what quantity.

Apologies, but I see an opportunity to learn something new and would like to take it. Your call whether you will indulge my curiosity, but it never hurts to ask.


Bro, they need to produce at least one thing tied to reality.

Right now in their minds they are in keyboard warrior fantasy land where they are super duper mighty mighty nazi-fash fighters lvl'ing up on the daily



Well of course it needs to be realistic. It’s just nice to know from what sources one should draw from. I guess past posts are the obvious source of proof that’s tied to reality, just thought there would be a bit more variety than that. I was surprised to read that it only needs to be at least one thing. That will certainly save me a lot of time going forward. For a second, I was expecting something at the length of a textbook bibliography! Anyway, apologies for the thread tangent, and thanks for the response.


You're taking these abusive people far too seriously. We are not talking about critical thinkers here.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Formosa wrote:
Cronch wrote:
"should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live"


yes, so we should bar any religion or ideology that engaged in such things yes?


Well, that would apply to all Abrahamic religions and many other ones. Also, racism against the Roma people is alive and well in atheist Europe and unless I am greatly mistaken, Poland is still highly homophobic.

Gert wrote:There's this nonsense idea that because discussion and debate are vital to democracy that all topics should be up for discussion and debate.


Why is it nonsense? What is wrong with discussion? People should be able to explain why Nazism is wrong beyond "They told me it was" or "killing Jews is wrong." Partly because anti-Semitism remaings a significant issue and the average person has zero knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism and how it shaped Europe. The modern perspective is that the Holocaust is solely the work of Nazis and compliant Germans, but I would argue that a millenia of intense hatred against Jews, throughout all of Christendom, paved the way for the Holocaust to even occur. If the discussion gets shut down then we don't reach the point of acknowledgement that a not insignificant portion of European opposition to Nazism stems from the fact Europe, as a whole, was complicit in both nationalism and anti-Semitism for a very long time. And before anyone attempts to paint this comment as being anti-European, the US has plethora of skeletons in its closet, to include the near-genocide of Native Americans.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






trexmeyer wrote:
Why is it nonsense? What is wrong with discussion? People should be able to explain why Nazism is wrong beyond "They told me it was" or "killing Jews is wrong." Partly because anti-Semitism remaings a significant issue and the average person has zero knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism and how it shaped Europe. The modern perspective is that the Holocaust is solely the work of Nazis and compliant Germans, but I would argue that a millenia of intense hatred against Jews, throughout all of Christendom, paved the way for the Holocaust to even occur. If the discussion gets shut down then we don't reach the point of acknowledgement that a not insignificant portion of European opposition to Nazism stems from the fact Europe, as a whole, was complicit in both nationalism and anti-Semitism for a very long time. And before anyone attempts to paint this comment as being anti-European, the US has plethora of skeletons in its closet, to include the near-genocide of Native Americans.

There is a difference between debating the origins of the Holocaust and debating whether or not Jewish people should be exterminated. If someone says to me that they genuinely believe that Jewish people should be exterminated, I'm not going to try to debate them and make them see the error of their ways because they're already too entrenched in the ideology to change.
I would happily agree to a historical discussion on the anti-semitism found throughout European history because that's an academic discussion where I can learn about a topic. If you want to bring someone into that discussion who says anti-semitism is a good thing and the nazis were right, then you're getting told to leave. I'm not talking about some edgelord 13 year old who thinks they're cool because they're controversial, I'm meaning a full-grown adult. If someone has gone through their life and reached adulthood still spouting off that "the nazis were good actually", then they're not getting the time of day.
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

Cronch wrote:
Probably because the discussion is literally "should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live". Some people in this thread seem to think this is some sort of theoretical excercise in free speech, not an actual discussion on the (supposedly inalienable) right to live that these people are trying to have.


That's exactly why this is so incomprehensible to me. People are suffering and dying RIGHT NOW because neo-Nazis have been given too much of a foot in the door already, and the kind of slimy apologism we're seeing in this very thread is how the infection starts in a community.

trexmeyer wrote:

Why is it nonsense? What is wrong with discussion? People should be able to explain why Nazism is wrong beyond "They told me it was" or "killing Jews is wrong." Partly because anti-Semitism remaings a significant issue and the average person has zero knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism and how it shaped Europe. The modern perspective is that the Holocaust is solely the work of Nazis and compliant Germans, but I would argue that a millenia of intense hatred against Jews, throughout all of Christendom, paved the way for the Holocaust to even occur. If the discussion gets shut down then we don't reach the point of acknowledgement that a not insignificant portion of European opposition to Nazism stems from the fact Europe, as a whole, was complicit in both nationalism and anti-Semitism for a very long time. And before anyone attempts to paint this comment as being anti-European, the US has plethora of skeletons in its closet, to include the near-genocide of Native Americans.


What's wrong is that "discussion" is exactly what we see from the fascist fanboys on here, a nauseating exercise in making excuses for actual self-confessed Nazis under the thin cover of "butbutbutcommunism!!!!!!" Saying "but what about those other guys?" is standard operating procedure for those seeking to pretend that Nazism is anything other than an ideology centered around suppression and ultimate extermination of those the Nazis don't like. It's how they got their foot in the door originally--hyping up the terrible menace of communism, painting a picture of liberals as being the real aggressors and themselves as fearless defenders of freedom.

Whenever the discussion starts with any attempt to say Nazis aren't that bad or that other guy was worse, the premise is faulty and can be safely dismissed.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




trexmeyer wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Probably because the discussion is literally "should we let jews/roma/other ethnic groups/sexual minorities/disabled people live". Some people in this thread seem to think this is some sort of theoretical excercise in free speech, not an actual discussion on the (supposedly inalienable) right to live.


That's not the discussion. I don't know if you genuinely missed that or if you are willfully twisting facts to suit your agenda. The issue has been spelled out multiple times across the two threads. Go back and read Insaniak's responses.

It is. That's their policy. That's what it boils down to. If you allow nazis to discuss their policies, you accept that their position is worth discussing. I don't discuss with a dog that tries to bite me, because the dog's position is not worth discussing. Nazis position is not worth discussing either, and if you think it is, well, you're telling all those minorities that you think discussing their right to live is fair game.

The fascists' (and non-insignificant amount of "classic conservatives") position on my particular minority (the one with the rainbow flag) is that we're a threat to the unity of the People, we are agents of decay and destroy the morality of the nation, and most of us are also sexual predators, whose main occupation is raping and converting straight people into our perversion. I'm sorry, but it's a bit of a personal issue for me, not just theory of politics.
How much should the fashyboys be allowed to publicly say that I rape people and should be beaten to death?

And yes, Poland is a very conservative, very religious country that also, unsurprisingly, has a problem with neo-nazis and fascists, because the ruling socially conservative party dallied with them as a way to boost election numbers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 17:06:27


 
   
Made in us
Stormblade



SpaceCoast

Why are you minimizing the evil of leaders whose death toll vastly outstrips Hitler's ? Whose modern day legacies are causing more suffering and dying RIGHT NOW than from any neo-nazis ?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:

There is a difference between debating the origins of the Holocaust and debating whether or not Jewish people should be exterminated. If someone says to me that they genuinely believe that Jewish people should be exterminated, I'm not going to try to debate them and make them see the error of their ways because they're already too entrenched in the ideology to change.
I would happily agree to a historical discussion on the anti-semitism found throughout European history because that's an academic discussion where I can learn about a topic. If you want to bring someone into that discussion who says anti-semitism is a good thing and the nazis were right, then you're getting told to leave. I'm not talking about some edgelord 13 year old who thinks they're cool because they're controversial, I'm meaning a full-grown adult. If someone has gone through their life and reached adulthood still spouting off that "the nazis were good actually", then they're not getting the time of day.


We're going way, way, way OT, but I don't think you appreciate how widespread anti-Semitism is globally. It is far from being unique to neo-Nazi elements. Within the past year or two there was a big uproar over anti-Semitic comments made by some NFL/NBA athletes if I remember correctly. Shutting down that discussion is akin to shutting down education.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






trexmeyer wrote:

We're going way, way, way OT, but I don't think you appreciate how widespread anti-Semitism is globally. It is far from being unique to neo-Nazi elements. Within the past year or two there was a big uproar over anti-Semitic comments made by some NFL/NBA athletes if I remember correctly. Shutting down that discussion is akin to shutting down education.

Where have I said that antisemitism isn't a problem or that it shouldn't be discussed?
What I have said is that fascists and nazis should be removed from spaces of debate and discussion lest things like anti-semitism become fully normalised in the public eye. When an individual is outed as having made antisemitic remarks, they aren't praised or shrugged away, they're rightfully vilified and shunned although this may vary depending on your location.
But you seem to keep missing what I'm saying, discuss the causes and effects of antisemitism, don't allow those who promote and practise it to be part of those discussions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jerram wrote:
Why are you minimizing the evil of leaders whose death toll vastly outstrips Hitler's ? Whose modern day legacies are causing more suffering and dying RIGHT NOW than from any neo-nazis ?

Hey cool its that "whataboutism" we discussed earlier!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 17:19:15


 
   
Made in us
Stormblade



SpaceCoast

 Gert wrote:
trexmeyer wrote:

We're going way, way, way OT, but I don't think you appreciate how widespread anti-Semitism is globally. It is far from being unique to neo-Nazi elements. Within the past year or two there was a big uproar over anti-Semitic comments made by some NFL/NBA athletes if I remember correctly. Shutting down that discussion is akin to shutting down education.

Where have I said that antisemitism isn't a problem or that it shouldn't be discussed?
What I have said is that fascists and nazis should be removed from spaces of debate and discussion lest things like anti-semitism become fully normalised in the public eye. When an individual is outed as having made antisemitic remarks, they aren't praised or shrugged away, they're rightfully vilified and shunned although this may vary depending on your location.
But you seem to keep missing what I'm saying, discuss the causes and effects of antisemitism, don't allow those who promote and practise it to be part of those discussions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jerram wrote:
Why are you minimizing the evil of leaders whose death toll vastly outstrips Hitler's ? Whose modern day legacies are causing more suffering and dying RIGHT NOW than from any neo-nazis ?

Hey cool its that "whataboutism" we discussed earlier!


Why are you being an apologist for evil ?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Since no one else wants to spell it out.

Nazism has racial superiority and anti-Semetism as core tenets of the faith.

Communism does not. You can argue that well, European Communism has historically been brutal, anti-Semetic, homophobic, etc, and that is indeed true. That's also true of various democracies and monarchies of the western world, to include the UK and US. Are we going to ban anyone that adheres to democratic thought as well due to the sins of the father? It's nonsense.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in us
Stormblade



SpaceCoast

I'm not talking about communism or socialism for that matter in general. I'm specifically talking about the Soviet and Sino versions responsible for the death of 60-70 million apiece. Let me know when your false equivalencies get anywhere near that. (And if you don't think there's not an ethnic component to their philosophies you aren't paying attention.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 17:52:29


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




"Nazis are wearing their symbols at tournaments, that's kinda bad"
WHY ARENT WE TALKING ABOUT STALIN AND MAO?!
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




trexmeyer wrote:
Since no one else wants to spell it out.

Nazism has racial superiority and anti-Semetism as core tenets of the faith.

Communism does not. You can argue that well, European Communism has historically been brutal, anti-Semetic, homophobic, etc, and that is indeed true. That's also true of various democracies and monarchies of the western world, to include the UK and US. Are we going to ban anyone that adheres to democratic thought as well due to the sins of the father? It's nonsense.


Well said. Glad to see there a quite a few Dakkanauts firmly against fascism and their ilk. Not surprised it's the regular suspects defending nazi's rights to free speech.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






Cronch wrote:
"Nazis are wearing their symbols at tournaments, that's kinda bad"
WHY ARENT WE TALKING ABOUT STALIN AND MAO?!


Hmmmmm, given your recent locked post about slavery, I think it's pretty clear what you're really after tbh.
   
Made in us
Stormblade



SpaceCoast

Cronch wrote:
"Nazis are wearing their symbols at tournaments, that's kinda bad"
WHY ARENT WE TALKING ABOUT STALIN AND MAO?!


No it was,

Let's craft an expansive policy on hate symbols instead of the simplistic BS you spewed earlier. Frankly the fact you're still currently posting after that stunt in OT is a perfect example of the problems with moderation, you should be on a multi day vacation from this board.
   
 
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