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 -iPaint- wrote:
...

And the Iron Empire standard:

Spoiler:

The Iron Empire concept art just continues to impress. Looks like we'll get a mix of active/passive poses for all these models, since the three renders above look more rooted in their poses than two of the running models shown in the latest update.

~iPaint

Mmmmmmmmmmm...

Daddy like.

That Iron Empire standard bearer looks really cool and dynamic. Love it.

If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely manner.

I know I'm okay with that. I'm still owed items from Secret Weapon, Mantic, and Dreamforge. If I get less, but get it all in a timely manner, then I'd be pleased with that as well.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:
If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely manner.

I know I'm okay with that. I'm still owed items from Secret Weapon, Mantic, and Dreamforge. If I get less, but get it all in a timely manner, then I'd be pleased with that as well.

I agree. (So long as One Shot Blondie and some Jailbird snipers are part of the minis I get! )

I want general Wolfenstein damn it.

Not a fan of those helmets for the Kurganova, too guardsy which admittedly is probably what they're going for. Still prefer the other helmet style on their heavy troopers like so.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:
If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely [and cost effective] manner.

Corrected. And there's nothing wrong with that approach either so long as it stays focused on covering costs and doesn't turn into maximizing profits.

The best part of the update is that they've got artists to work on new concepts. That can only mean that they will make sure that all already done concept will "unlock" before this is over. I just hope we will get more stuff revealed soon, so I can, once again, re-calculate exactly what stuff I want to get.

Aye, the concept artists at work was the best thing I've heard today, makes me hopeful that they might be considering additional stuff over the shadow bits.

Of course it might be all the question mark pics, but a man can dream.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Aye, the concept artists at work was the best thing I've heard today, makes me hopeful that they might be considering additional stuff over the shadow bits.

Of course it might be all the question mark pics, but a man can dream.

It makes me hopeful that they've got plans to unlock things at a slightly faster rate. I really, really want some of the stuff that's still locked up, and I'm starting to get a little concerned that I'll never see any of it.

I read it more as them having something else to show if there's still time after all of the already mentioned things are unlocked. Where as the question mark pics should already have full concept art as they would have planned to unlock them at some point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
It makes me hopeful that they've got plans to unlock things at a slightly faster rate. I really, really want some of the stuff that's still locked up, and I'm starting to get a little concerned that I'll never see any of it.

I'm sure we'll see everything one way or another, as long as it's not in a 'Here's what you could have had' reveal of anything still unlocked at the end of the campaign.

grefven wrote:
The best part of the update is that they've got artists to work on new concepts. That can only mean that they will make sure that all already done concept will "unlock" before this is over.

Actually that's what they hinted at from the start and that's why I couldn't follow the panic.
You don't really think that they invest all the time and money in creating 150 awesome miniatures and then won't release the last 2 of them.

Raging Heroes wrote:Ultimately, 80% of the sculpts will be done by the end of the Kickstarter, and the rest (mainly hero characters) will be done the following month.

I suppose we'll see.

I think they're also aware of other issues with this as they've also promised some adjustments.

As it is, $6K a day isn't going to get that done.

I think it would be fun to track Raging Heroes next to Cthulhu Wars.

I guess I will say it again, the kickstarter is still young, it has time to change and adapt and while only time will tell, I think they are more than willing to adapt, I am waiting for the next update with high hopes.

I think kickstarter has evolved at least in the miniatures genre to be a show, that's why mantic's kickstarters can be described as enjoyable, they provide a nice show with good orchestration, participation, hipe and communication, they have understood the value of streachgoal and update, swapping things to change the backers mood and still do what they want.

I also see that most successful kickstarters are focused, provide a box of stuff and build on that, this helps add a perceived value on pledging instead of waiting for the retail to go, this one is more can't say unfocused, spread maybe? I wonder how the tried and tested kickstarter recipy can be applied here.

The following is what I think are problems and how I think they could be fixed

First and foremost is participation and communication.
3 people team or not HR must find a way to be active on the kickstarter, beyond having an update ready in less than half an hour after a streachgoal has been locked in they need to find a time preferably overlapping Europe and US to actively participate in the conversation, heralds are nice, but, a backer will click Loudn' raging>full profile> comments or look for the blue posts, easier to find who is a herald and what they say, I am not downplaying the heralds job here, but many may miss they even exist, and brian blessed (raging lunatic) tag adds confusion, moreover as many times Ronnie has shown creator participation boosts confidence in the project and just increases pledges by been there and saying things.

Frontpage could be linked to the first but needs special mention, its too widespread and somebody needs to dig to find something.
Pledge levels should be up front easy to find a "sweet spot" advertised on top and a visual representation on what you are getting, this is were the flexibility of the project is a hindrance, the silhouetted figures are not appealing a collection of artwork might work better, but may be a bit misleading, not sure how to handle this, current streachgoal needs to be prominent past streachgoals need to go ASAP what has been unlocked needs a nice redesign to incorporate freebies, while I am at this the pledges need to include the freebies applied to the pledge too, Ash is been unlocked she must be on the pledges!

Streachgoals
Streachgoals need to make sense and look coherent, if a streachgoal raises more than one eyebrow one way or the other it is mispriced, likewise the fact that 3 different factions are represented, creates disinterest to some when their chosen faction(s) is not represented and while we have seen mantic do that with deadzone, most streachgoals were for all factions either adding to them or been mercenaries, I think RH could make streachgoals that give something to all factions, either unlocking 3 models one for each faction, or unlocking a model for a faction and unlocking something for the other two, for example "Irina Vega for Kurganova, alternative weapon for jailbirds and Iron empire support 1".

Perceived Price
Finally we reach to a bugbear for the majority of backers in a kickstarter the appeal is to get a sweat deal, a better deal than getting from retail, there are the idealists who will back a project because they want it to succeed, but that's the minority, the majority will be attracted because they want a good deal, how to do this in such a freeform project is a bit odd, adding stuff is the way of course, but how and were, adding an extra trooper to each squad works, but is not of any interest to backers only wanting heroes, adding an extra hero needs consideration, maybe for each 2 an extra? don't know, additional parts for heroes may work but will only attract people interested on these heroes. this needs a bit of brainstorming.

Finally comes the part on how to persuade people to pledge more, models alone may do it, but how do you persuade the backer to pledge extra from what they originally expected, I am thinking bundled deals but need some though.


Anyway these are my thoughts.

Project Update #7: Major update: You can now SWAP between Troops, Support, and even Heroines
Posted by Loud'n Raging
The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter just got better!

As we mentioned in our previous update, we are working very hard at upgrading the campaign to match the outstanding yet (for us) unexpected level of popularity it has already enjoyed.

As some of you may remember, initially, we had come up with a very flexible pledge system based on a credit system, but Kickstarter asked us to modify it as they felt it was not compatible with their guidelines. So we had to scramble to create an alternative system, that, for various reasons, had to become more rigid.

But we are now in a position where we can introduce total flexibility!
From this moment and going forward, you can now swap between Troops and Supports as you wish within your pledge l evel.

For example, say you have 10 x $15 Troops (or $150 worth of Troops) + 8 x $15 Supports (or $120 worth of Supports), you now have $270 worth of a combination of Troops and Supports.
This means, for example, that
(10 x $15 Troops) + (8 x $15 Supports) =
18 x $15 Troops =
18 x $15 Supports =
10 x $15 Troops + 3 x $20 Troops + 2 x $15 Support + 1 x $30 Support.
Basically, any combination of Troops and/or Supports worth $270 will work.

But wait, that's not all.
We have also done something for the Heroines too.
Going forward, you will now be able to swap 3 Heroines for 2 Troops or or 2 Supports, or 1Troops+1Support, or vice-versa.

All in all, this means that you can now swap Heroines, Troops and Supports provided the same overall dollar value is maintained.

For example,
6 x $10 Heroines =
3 x $20 Troops =
3 x $20 Support =
3 x $10 Heroines + 1 x $15 Troops + 1 x $15 Sup port =
1 x $15 Heroines + 1 x $15 Troops + 1 x $30 Support...

Well, you get the drift.
As long as the maths work, you're good to mix and match as your convenience!

And here are more full-size images of the unlocked minis:

That's a pretty big deal! I think I might wind up with a few extra heroines I won't want, so it will be nice to switch 'em out for something else. Awesome!

Wow, that is actually fantastic news. Good to see something like that being done.

At this time I would definitely be after more Troops than Support really.

Now, if we could just squeeze a little better deal percentagewise, I'll drop my cash and wait.

You have to give them this, though, they seem to be learning the ropes really fast now.

That switcheroo we can do with the worth of the pledges is really introducing a level of flexibility it lacked before.

As a skeptic, I am coming around.

 Ouze wrote:

Project Update #7: Major update: You can now SWAP between Troops, Support, and even Heroines
Posted by Loud'n Raging
The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter just got better!

As we mentioned in our previous update, we are working very hard at upgrading the campaign to match the outstanding yet (for us) unexpected level of popularity it has already enjoyed.

As some of you may remember, initially, we had come up with a very flexible pledge system based on a credit system, but Kickstarter asked us to modify it as they felt it was not compatible with their guidelines. So we had to scramble to create an alternative system, that, for various reasons, had to become more rigid.

But we are now in a position where we can introduce total flexibility!
From this moment and going forward, you can now swap between Troops and Supports as you wish within your pledge l evel.
<snip>

Hmmmmmm..... interesting.

So, the pledge level end up breaking down into pure cash equivalents plus X (where X is freebies, extra heroines, etc.)

Cadet Box= $80 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature,
Lieutenant Box= $150 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature + freebies,
Commander Box= $240 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature +freebies +1 additional hero,

And so on.

well they've changed and adapted

I'm very happy

(although I think they MAY just have made it less likely folk will add extra cash to their pledges)

Aww Ouze was faster!

Nice update, but why is it so complicated? from what i read essentially you can convert anything to anything so why not simply say credit is converted as you like?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
well they've changed and adapted

I'm very happy

(although I think they MAY just have made it less likely folk will add extra cash to their pledges)

Similar thoughts here: very glad for the flexibility, but it kinda makes the whole thing a bit ala cart.

Must cogitate...

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Hmmmmmm..... interesting.

So, the pledge level end up breaking down into pure cash equivalents plus X (where X is freebies, extra heroines, etc.)

Cadet Box= $80 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature,
Lieutenant Box= $150 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature + freebies,
Commander Box= $240 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature +freebies +1 additional hero,

And so on.

I actually just had an idea after reading that....

They should add something new and not seen by any KS I've watched.

Every 75k a Stretch adds a 1% discount that accumulates over time.

So if they are around 15% now, it would take another 1.5m to get up to 35% off retail, which technically shouldn't be unheard of when direct from the manufacturer and still nets them a massive amount of money.

warzone did it it was complex did maths look odd and did not attract so many people, it can also potentially lower the pledges.

 TalonZahn wrote:
They should add something new and not seen by any KS I've watched.

Every 75k a Stretch adds a 1% discount that accumulates over time.

So if they are around 15% now, it would take another 1.5m to get up to 35% off retail, which technically shouldn't be unheard of when direct from the manufacturer and still nets them a massive amount of money.

I am not sure if that is visible enough. The current discount is already overlooked by some. More freebies might be a better way.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
warzone did it it was complex did maths look odd and did not attract so many people, it can also potentially lower the pledges.

Looking at their KS page, which I've never seen before, the confusion was probably not because of that, lol. That front page is a wreck and all their prices are all over.

@ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.

If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.

 TalonZahn wrote:
@ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.

If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.

I agree on the idea not necessarily the amount (free box).

I have made a few suggestions about it above.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
warzone did it it was complex did maths look odd and did not attract so many people, it can also potentially lower the pledges.

Looking at their KS page, which I've never seen before, the confusion was probably not because of that, lol. That front page is a wreck and all their prices are all over.

@ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.

If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.

If free boxes were the stretch goals, I might be persuaded to up my pledge, but that seems very predatory. If the goal was to reward people, that's fine, but if their goal with the free boxes was to get those already onboard to up their donation, that would seem a little on the shady side, and a little out of character for Raging Heroes.

I'm more enthused about supporting a Kickstarter that wants to attract new customers through quality merchandise and a good product than one that wants to hook people with shiny offers and then wring them out for every penny they're worth. The former is how good businesses are supposed to work. The latter is how crack dealers operate. I'm not saying I won't buy the crack, you understand, but I appreciate an ethical business model.

 Jimsolo wrote:
If free boxes were the stretch goals, I might be persuaded to up my pledge, but that seems very predatory. I'm more enthused about supporting a Kickstarter that wants to attract new customers through quality merchandise and a good product than one that wants to hook people with shiny offers and then wring them out for every penny they're worth. The former is how good businesses are supposed to work. The latter is how crack dealers operate. I'm not saying I won't buy the crack, you understand, but I appreciate an ethical business model.

Well, generally the idea is to give you some crack for free, only you don't know it's crack or that you're addicted.

Then sell you your next fix.

Good businesses and crack dealers are not mutually exclusive.