Switch Theme:

Imperial Guard 9th Edition Tactics  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Arcanis161 wrote:
The Orders buff will shave some points in a list. It also makes Tempestor Primes in particular more efficient.

Question: say I have a Company Commander in range of two Infantry Squads, each also within 6" of each other. I order FRFSRF on the first one; the second can get it as well. Can I also order Take Aim on the second one to get the rerolls of 1? Can that also carry back over to the first?

Under the base rules for orders in the codex, its pretty specific that each unit can only be under the effect of one order at a time unless specifically stated otherwise. So far as I understand it, you cant just stack orders onto units like crazy by ordering each unit in a formation a different thing and having a FRFSRF, take aim, bring it down, get back in the fight death mob. I will say the fact that the 6" bonus effect coming from the unit ordered, not the officer, is pretty awesome. Opens up so many clever plays. For example, Cadians can use a whiteshield unit to issue a single order to an absolutely massive zone. They can also use the vox caster relic combined with voxes on a few key units to order a whole outflanking force on the other end of the table. Stormtrooper commanders no longer HAVE to take the command rod. Platoon commanders can actually be very effective in a list with limited HQ slots, say if we get the commander limit similar to other codexes or youre running tank commanders. You get the idea.

Ive been looking into the tank orders stuff. Sadly the Cadian specific order for tanks only really works with russes as it states it allows the turret weapon to reroll shots, not any weapon. The Tallarn order on the other hand is absolutely amazing for tons of units. I have a feeling we're going to see some really cool strategies come out of the Tallarn armored companies. As for everyone elses armor, Strike and Shroud is a hidden gem. Almost every piece of armor we have has smoke launchers. Sentinels, Manticores, Hellhounds, chimeras, you name it, its got smoke launchers. Very handy if you say, need to move a Manticore into the open for the +1 BS to hit a target you can see for example. Taking a tank commander with master of command, or pask, for orders may actually have some serious merit now.

Shame the infantry company specific orders dont get the order buff. I understand though how an entire infantry company of Mordians sniping off of one order or a whole valhallan infantry list firing into combat could be seen as potentially causing issues though.

Curious to see if 2+ save russes makes much of a difference. Theres lots of AP1 and 2 weapons its going to help with at least, but I still feel the russ's biggest issue is melee. But hey, Ill take it and use it best I can. A bunch of russes opening up turn 1 with strike and shroud could be a rough thing for an ork gunline to deal with.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Another maybe weird, maybe funny combo: should you by chance consider the Malcador Infernus as giant Cyclops charge it can now move 20+2d6" under the "Full trottle" order (as it is not titanic). Should be enough to get near enough to some juicy targets that the titanic explosion can wreck havoc

~6300 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Fredericksburg, VA

Vox-Casters do seem to be a bit more of value now, you can keep a Coy Cmdr back with a Vox command squad and issue an order to heavy weapons' teams nearby, and another order to a set of infantry further up without needing multiple officers, or every squad with a Vox to do it.

Also neat that the Officer can order himself (or herself!), and essentially turn the order into an aura affecting all relevant units within 6" of the Officer.

Almost wish that Tank orders worked the same way on Leman Russ' (chain within 6"), but the ability to use them on other vehicles certainly opens some new possibilities. Overall a decent upgrade for guard, while not being amazingly game changing or overpowered.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





The Orders buff saves somewhere between 20-70 points, depending on how many vox casters you get.

Gonna try out 4 Russes (Spearhead) in a 1k point game this weekend. Next weekend will be trying out the Orders Buff.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What army composition would you suggest against Eldar with tons of Windriders and shining spears and warp hunters. They all move insanely fast and the warp hunters auto hit Heavy 3 S12 AP-4 D6 damage.
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Disclaimer: this is just theoryhammer and not based on practical experience.

When I look at those Eldar units I see a fast Chimera statline with a pretty hefty short range AT gun (Warp Hunter)
a T4 W2 4+ bike statline with an anti infantry gun without AP (Windriders)
and a T4 W2 3+ statline that's also not too shabby in melee (shining spears)

Looking at this I would note:
1. None of those seem to have an efficient answer to Bullgryns. The Warp Hunter would waste most of his power, the Windriders don't have the AP, the Shining spears would have to get into melee, which doesn't seem like the best idea against Bullgryns and D2 is not the most efficient against our W3 boys
2. Another thing I would consider are cheap T7 vehicles (Chimera for example) with two Heavy Bolters. They cost only 85 points and again: non of the mentioned eldar units is really efficient at killing them. The Warp Hunter on average needs more than one round to kill one of those even in short distance (3 shots, 2.5 wounds, average 8.25 damage) which is not really great for a 195 point hover tank targeting a model not even half its cost. On the other hand the heavy Bolters seem to be an efficient statline to deal with the Windriders and shining spears and have enough range to "catch" those even if they zip around. Also the AP -1 is just enough to not be wasted at the shining spears InvSv and D2 is optimal.
3. I might be wrong, but judging from the statline alone none of those seem to be really overwhelmingly efficient at removing guardsmen. Don't take me wrong, Assault 4, 4/0/1 on the windriders is good against GEQ but again: for a 20 point model shooting at guardsmen sitting on objectives? With Windriders BS3+, assuming that they advanced that should "only" be 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, 0.88 unsaved wounds for not even one dead guardsmen

Putting this (as I said only theoretical approach) together I would say: Lots of Guardsmen sitting on objectives, lots of Heavy Bolter Chimeras blocking movement and firing at the shining spears and Windriders + a couple of Bullgryns, at least some of those sitting in the Chimeras to jump out when the Warp hunter comes close to kill the Chimera. I assume the Eldar player should have some trouble killing the Guardsmen fast enough to take objectives, while he can't really ignore the Chimeras firing at his infantry with the optimal weaponsprofile.
But let's hear it from people with practical experience.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/12 08:09:33


~6300 build and painted 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




warpedpig wrote:
What army composition would you suggest against Eldar with tons of Windriders and shining spears and warp hunters. They all move insanely fast and the warp hunters auto hit Heavy 3 S12 AP-4 D6 damage.


I've yet to face a single issue that isn't solved by demolishers. If he's playing heavily with Bikes I'd suggest putting triple flamers on all your russes.
They're gonna hurt in an overwatch as he won't be able to avoid by charging through a wall (Since bikes can't) and if he tries to tag multiple ones he'll get cooked quite fast.
One or two astorpaths could be a wise investment to try and deny his powers since they're pretty hefty power multipliers (and to give the aforementioned "Just try and charge me" russ a 1+ save).

Warp Hunters only having 3 shots shouldn't worry you TOO much, it's gonna take two of them to kill one Russ and then he'll be left out in the open where they just get crunched by a TC investing 2 CP into maximizing his shots while your other tanks/manticore can hurt the other one.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





So, uh, it's been a couple of weeks. What do people think about the update and, if using Cadians, the Cadian stuff combined with the update?

I played a game recently against Be'lakor and his special Detachment, which seems specifically anti-Cadian, but it was a close game, with my main mistakes being not taking out his Sicaran Destroyer turn 1 and moving up too quickly.

The Orders buff plus Vox saves some decent points. Rather than spending 105 points on three Company Commanders, you can instead buy one and 3-5 Vox Casters (for redundancy).

The Leman Russ buff actually saved two tanks from dying in that match as well. Now the Russ doesn't seem like a waste of points.

I'm happy overall. I still want us to be able to handle those at the top too, but I think we've moved from bad to "not terrible" overall.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Arcanis161 wrote:

The Orders buff plus Vox saves some decent points. Rather than spending 105 points on three Company Commanders, you can instead buy one and 3-5 Vox Casters (for redundancy).


Voxes are still useless, the relic is even more useless. Just take Creed who has a 12 inch aura and 3 orders. That then bubbles out 6 inch from the target unit for potentially 18 inch order range, same as a vox. Creed can basically order your entire army.

If you're planning on doing the strategic reserve plasma bomb with 3 plasma command squads, just take a single platoon commander who can order all 3 squads.

Arcanis161 wrote:
The Leman Russ buff actually saved two tanks from dying in that match as well. Now the Russ doesn't seem like a waste of points.

I'm happy overall. I still want us to be able to handle those at the top too, but I think we've moved from bad to "not terrible" overall.


Russ buff was nice, I'm still salty all the other Guard tanks didn't get the buff though. *Cough* Thunderer, Malcadors, Macharius', Baneblades *Cough*

With Cadian and the Balance Update we're in a decent place. Definitely not 1st place material, but could get into podium with a good list and some luck.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Jarms48 wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:

The Orders buff plus Vox saves some decent points. Rather than spending 105 points on three Company Commanders, you can instead buy one and 3-5 Vox Casters (for redundancy).


Voxes are still useless, the relic is even more useless. Just take Creed who has a 12 inch aura and 3 orders. That then bubbles out 6 inch from the target unit for potentially 18 inch order range, same as a vox. Creed can basically order your entire army.

If you're planning on doing the strategic reserve plasma bomb with 3 plasma command squads, just take a single platoon commander who can order all 3 squads.



...I wasn't doing a strategic reserve plasma bomb?

Also, it's actually still 12" from the first unit. But, if you have a 30 man unit of Whiteshields 12" away, you could get slightly better than 18" overall. I'll have to consider that.

Curious: any reason now as to why Vox Casters still cost points? Seems like removing that cost could be a small buff for us.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that Leman Russ's now have a better save than the super-heavies?

I know, I know, the super-heavies have more wounds ect... still, would it have broken them completely if they had also gotten the 2+?
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




leerm02 wrote:
Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that Leman Russ's now have a better save than the super-heavies?

I know, I know, the super-heavies have more wounds ect... still, would it have broken them completely if they had also gotten the 2+?


I have a feeling GW changed the Cult Leman Russ in the upcoming GSC codex to a 2+ save. They gave us that buff early. So none of the other vehicles were even considered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arcanis161 wrote:
...I wasn't doing a strategic reserve plasma bomb?


I know, but that's one of the few times a vox and/or the vox relics only real use.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Also, it's actually still 12" from the first unit. But, if you have a 30 man unit of Whiteshields 12" away, you could get slightly better than 18" overall. I'll have to consider that.

Curious: any reason now as to why Vox Casters still cost points? Seems like removing that cost could be a small buff for us.


It's 12 inch from Creed, yes. But if the ordered unit is 12 away, then that unit can extend that order to another unit 6 inch away. Giving you effectively an 18 inch range, so the same as a vox caster.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/20 08:58:11


 
   
Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




Northern Virginia

Jarms48 wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that Leman Russ's now have a better save than the super-heavies?

I know, I know, the super-heavies have more wounds ect... still, would it have broken them completely if they had also gotten the 2+?


I have a feeling GW changed the Cult Leman Russ in the upcoming GSC codex to a 2+ save. They gave us that buff early. So none of the other vehicles were even considered.


I have a feeling that since so much in 9th has stupidly strong AP, a Baneblade with a 2+ isn't going to be much of a threat, especially with the smaller boards.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Vox is tricky, I want to like them and take them but they really should just be a mapwide effect, or at least give it a 48" range or something. The cadian vox relic that lets you use it tablewide is about the only time I would take some. Would work really well for outflanking some vets, ccs, and sws across the map without having to give the opponent a free assassinate.

The other issue is that while you can save on voxes by only taking them on a few squads, once your opponent realizes what youre up to theyll just focus down the vox units and youre back to square one.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I recently read again the rules of the Cyclops demolition charge and the Tallarn Strategem, tank order and regimental doctrine especially with an eye on tank orders now being fair game for all vehicles.

Is this here possible:
1. Tallarn Ambush a couple of Cyclopses slightly above 9'' near an interesting enemy target, close enough to receive an order from one of your own tallarn Leman Russ.
2. Order the cyclops to "Get around behind them", moving the cyclops 6'', so its slightly more than 3'' away from the enemy
3. detonate the charge?

I might have missed it, but nothing forbids firing after arriving from ambush right? And the ambush text "counts as having moved it's maximum distance" does not mean that it counts as having advanced, right? And even if it would, that would change the Tallarn Cyclops charges type from heavy to assault due to the Tallarn doctrine, so still enable it to fire...

If that is correct it might be an interesting tool to make the Cyclops more usable. Or at least force a cautious enemy to more intense screening than he would have done otherwise

~6300 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







A unit arriving from reinforcements can never move again in a turn, iirc.
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






OK, that clears that up, thanks. Would have been fun though...

~6300 build and painted 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block






Question regarding orders with the most recent rules update.

I understand that an order issued to a unit now also applies to other units within 6"if you choose so.

The rules used to be that a unit can only be affected by one order per turn/phase. Is this still the case?

In other words, if I have an officer with 2 squads within 6" can I issue FRFSRF to one of them and take aim to the other and have both squads under both orders?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 DoctorDanny wrote:
Question regarding orders with the most recent rules update.

I understand that an order issued to a unit now also applies to other units within 6"if you choose so.

The rules used to be that a unit can only be affected by one order per turn/phase. Is this still the case?

In other words, if I have an officer with 2 squads within 6" can I issue FRFSRF to one of them and take aim to the other and have both squads under both orders?


No, as a unit may still only be issued one order per turn (and the aura spreading specifically says "the order may be issued to units within 6" or whatever).

There are relics like the Laurels of Command however that can allow this style of combo to work.
   
Made in au
Splattered With Acrylic Paint




Hey all. I thought it might be best to post here for some answers from fellow Imperial Guard players!

I've recently looked at getting back into the hobby and one of the armies that I've always wanted to work on was a pure Militarum Tempestus army (about 1000 - 1500pts) and also Death Korps of Krieg.

One thing that I've read is the Specialist Detachments becoming Legends in 9th ed? (reading from 1d4chan)- so does this mean pure Tempestus Scions are no longer an official thing?

Also, is it possible to incorporate the models from the Kill Team box for DKoK into an actual army (non-FW)? Since it seems like they only have one unit released in plastic from what I can see...

Thanks all!
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





Sikplex wrote:
Hey all. I thought it might be best to post here for some answers from fellow Imperial Guard players!

I've recently looked at getting back into the hobby and one of the armies that I've always wanted to work on was a pure Militarum Tempestus army (about 1000 - 1500pts) and also Death Korps of Krieg.

One thing that I've read is the Specialist Detachments becoming Legends in 9th ed? (reading from 1d4chan)- so does this mean pure Tempestus Scions are no longer an official thing?

Also, is it possible to incorporate the models from the Kill Team box for DKoK into an actual army (non-FW)? Since it seems like they only have one unit released in plastic from what I can see...

Thanks all!


Specialist detachments would be ones from vigilus supplements in 8e. They are banned from GT mission pack which means in practice most of the games as people default to that mission pack for simplicity.

So pure tempestus scions is valid. Being specific factions isn't specialist detachments. It's stuff like Emperor Wrath Artillery Company for Astra Militarum.

And yes DKoK can be used in DKoK army. Rumour/speculation is more coming in future as plastic but how true that is.

Oh and one thing to keep in mind. GW has been adding drawbacks to new books mixing subfactions. While it's not QUARANTEED you might want to keep in mind you might be losing some power if you mix say AM/DKoK(this might be biggest worry) or AM/Scions(this is lesser worry though still possibility). Mind you there's no hard facts that this WILL happen but in new books mixing subfactions has started to have drawbacks. Marines lose super doctrines, sisters of battle lose sacred rites, necrons lose protocols(though this is pretty tiny).

If you are on fence whether to go for pure or mixed and are happy either way might be reason to stay pure for now. But if you want mix for sure don't let this stop you. (new AM book isn't looking to come in a hurry anyway. Maybe late 2022)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/05 09:40:23


2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Been a lurking user for a long time soaking up the knowledge and advice of others. Now I feel compelled to post. Where exactly is this orders update to the AM that everybody keeps referring to actually published/located. I have been searching and have been unable to find any source for this.

Regards
   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight




The balance dataslate has the orders update. Link is about 1/2 the way down the page. Says download balance dataslate.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/09/game-balance-is-at-the-heart-of-this-official-warhammer-40000-rules-update/

2500
2000
1500
800  
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

Are fellow guard commanders so baffled by the Chapter Approved points update for us, that no one dares to speak about it ?
To sum up :
Banewolf variant -10
Deathstrike -30
Manticore +10
Basic LRBT -10

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Are fellow guard commanders so baffled by the Chapter Approved points update for us, that no one dares to speak about it ?
To sum up :
Banewolf variant -10
Deathstrike -30
Manticore +10
Basic LRBT -10
I don't really play competitively so I've actually got an extra points to play with. 2 manticores and 3 LRBT in my "relatively" more competitive list so an extra 10 points. My fluffy/fun Tallarn army got 30 extra points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 14:54:25


"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 Ravajaxe wrote:
Are fellow guard commanders so baffled by the Chapter Approved points update for us, that no one dares to speak about it ?
To sum up :
Banewolf variant -10
Deathstrike -30
Manticore +10
Basic LRBT -10


My opinion:
Banewolf: as long as it stays 8'', d6, 1 Damage I don't really see -10 points as enough to bring it instead of a Hellhound. Maybe if one of those stats increased it would have a role.
Deathstrike: hmm... maybe? If you put it in reserves, bring it turn 3 you have a 33% chance of getting it off unmolested. But I'm not sure if that is worth it. A pitty that it doesn't explode as easy anymore, elsewise it could serve as some kind of superheavy Cyclops demolition charge for 120 points.
Manticore: I guess +10 points won't stop it being so extremely useful as it is.
LRBT: that's a nice one I think, but no general gamechanger. I don't think this change will drastically change the distribution of heavy support slots between LRBT and other options like Manticores, nor will it make people suddenly take much more basic LRBTs insteat of TCs.

So my personal overall judgement: I don't see much new strategic value coming out of these changes. Maybe (and only maybe) one might see the odd Deathstrike now and then.

~6300 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

I'm still amazed that the superheavy tanks didn't see ANY points adjustment...
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

 Pyroalchi wrote:
 Ravajaxe wrote:
Are fellow guard commanders so baffled by the Chapter Approved points update for us, that no one dares to speak about it ?
To sum up :
Banewolf variant -10
Deathstrike -30
Manticore +10
Basic LRBT -10


My opinion:
Banewolf: as long as it stays 8'', d6, 1 Damage I don't really see -10 points as enough to bring it instead of a Hellhound. Maybe if one of those stats increased it would have a role.
Agree 100%.

Deathstrike: hmm... maybe? If you put it in reserves, bring it turn 3 you have a 33% chance of getting it off unmolested. But I'm not sure if that is worth it. A pitty that it doesn't explode as easy anymore, elsewise it could serve as some kind of superheavy Cyclops demolition charge for 120 points.
Only 33% chance of firing, while spending CP to put it in reserves, then probably another CP to improve its pityful missile. Even with Catachan or spotter details, this poor tank only does 5-6 mortal wounds on average. That all it is capable. Compare that to smites from an average psyker, this is pathetic. I would not even take it at its new cost, a Basilisk is a much better buy.

Manticore: I guess +10 points won't stop it being so extremely useful as it is.
I will still field my only painted Manticore, but would probably resell the other ones. The manticore is still an unavoidable asset, but I would probably field a basilisk as second HS tank instead, to save some points.
LRBT: that's a nice one I think, but no general gamechanger. I don't think this change will drastically change the distribution of heavy support slots between LRBT and other options like Manticores, nor will it make people suddenly take much more basic LRBTs insteat of TCs. So my personal overall judgement: I don't see much new strategic value coming out of these changes. Maybe (and only maybe) one might see the odd Deathstrike now and then.
My fireball demolishers LRBT went down to 180 points, I'm quite pleased.

Apart from that, well, let's say I was prepared to be disappointed. No rebates for heavy weapons squads, wyverns, hydras, commissars, chimeras, ratlings, baneblades variants, and the list goes on...
Very little significant tweaks were done. More than being bottom tier in competitive games, what is more annoying is not being able to put a fight in friendlier games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 21:27:51


longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Ravajaxe wrote:


Apart from that, well, let's say I was prepared to be disappointed. No rebates for heavy weapons squads, wyverns, hydras, commissars, chimeras, ratlings, baneblades variants, and the list goes on...
Very little significant tweaks were done. More than being bottom tier in competitive games, what is more annoying is not being able to put a fight in friendlier games.


Yeah, I've only won one game in my current crusade. Out of 5-6 games now.

Sadly it won't matter much as I'm moving in the next few months.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Deathstrikes in competitive matches...lol. That thing could cost just 60 points and I still wouldn't take one. They are probably the most worthless unit in the entire game; a 30-point price decrease just ain't gonna fix that.

As for the decrease on Leman Russes, that combined with the price bump on Manticores could make it worthwhile to take Demolisher Russes as our HS choices, rather than multiple Manticores. I still don't think Bassys are going to take over for Manticores though.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: