The Ongoing [Warpath] News Thread

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**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Azazelx wrote:
The Tunnel Runners might make decent not-Doomflayers.

scarletsquig wrote:

Also, if we get 3000 backers, everyone gets a free book.

Hm.. was it a previous Mantic KS that reneged on a printed book? Wasn't there a CYOA for DKH? Or am I misremembering?

It depends on what you mean by 'renege', but yes. That happened more than once.

Um, promise that a physical book will be a thing, and then turn around and say "sorry, no can do". How many times have they done it?

Matt Gilbert's 2 (TWO) adventure books. (Still mad.)
Bloodstone of Cerillion.
Deadzone short story anthology.
Probably some of the expansions that ended up mashed into one compendium book might count, too.

Remember that time when Mantic promised to free the hostages? Sad, sad day for Kickstarter.

And if more than once, why go back to that particular well?

Because Timmy is trapped! That's what Mantic's been trying to tell us.

**GrimDork**

So total did better than I was grousing about earlier. Yay.

Bursters sound awesome and quite icky. May be inclined to convert, I'd get them sooner and that kind of stuff is fun to do on your own.

I like the drop ship. Wonder if we'll unlock some kind of gunship option. Transport 3 is great too.

Should shape up to a good end run.

**Azazelx**

pretre wrote:
Azazelx wrote:
pretre wrote:

Or... This is why the vocal folks in this Dakka thread do not represent the actual target audience of the Warpath KS?

Sweeping generalities FTW! Especially considering that there are at least 3 members of the RC in here.

I doubt that the ones I'm talking about are on the RC.

In that case, it defeats your initial proposition. "The vocal folks" is a bit broad, and while I for example am not shy of criticising Mantic, I've spent thousands of dollars on their products. More importantly, any of us who has a wallet and are willing to open them are their target audience. Let's face it - people who post "vocally" on wargames forums, facebook, run games at game clubs, blog, vlog, etc are a boon to have on your side because they spread the message about your product. OTOH Someone like Kroothawk, who appeared to simply hate Mantic rather vocally might not be their audience, but I really think that almost everyone in this thread are hoping that Mantic do well - and produce better models and rules going forward. Naturally people do want the best deals for their money a year in advance, and while there are some here that will gratefully take anything offered and water carry or white knight any criticism of their favourite thing, those people are probably more counter-productive to Mantic's future than the critical ones, especially when you consider that pretty much any one product released by GW will take in more revenue than all of Mantic's in a year.

The size of that vast untapped market is immense, and Mantic need to continue to improve and be willing to take on board criticism/feedback of their models instead of ignoring them at the behest of those most emotionally invested in them. There's been plenty of valid critiques brought up in this thread over the last however-many pages that makes me wonder how certain things got through to the KS. Then again, I work in a large enough organisation to know that often the people who make certain decisions aren't always the best people to make those particular decisions. I've spent the last 7 months at work cleaning up someone else's mess and making improvements to the way certain things are run. No reason to think it's any different at Mantic or anywhere else.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Alex C wrote:
At least this time I don't have to pay for the physical book that then gets dropped after the cash is handed over, unlike last time.

You'd think that, but I've heard of novels being finished, edited, even printed and then gakcanned. Mantic will show us just enough during the pledge manager, then once they have the dowry marry us to the other daughter.

**Barzam**

Hmm. I'm liking that GCPS dropship. But, I also like the Asterian one and I actually do like the Enforcer one. So, which do I wind up with? Which do I get in a battleforce and which do I pay for?

If I get the GCPS Battleforce, does it come with a Mule, or would that have to be the "free" vehicle choice?

**Azazelx**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Azazelx wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:

It depends on what you mean by 'renege', but yes. That happened more than once.

Um, promise that a physical book will be a thing, and then turn around and say "sorry, no can do". How many times have they done it?

Matt Gilbert's 2 (TWO) adventure books. (Still mad.)
Bloodstone of Cerillion.
Deadzone short story anthology.
Probably some of the expansions that ended up mashed into one compendium book might count, too.

For feth's sake. Post that in the comments and ask them to stop promising physical books that they will never publish.

How many of those above were "freebies" and how many were paid-for add-ons?

**Barzam**

The Deadzone anthology was definitely a freebie. I can't speak for the other books, but the Deadzone one was at least released as an e-book.

**Nostromodamus**

Barzam wrote:
Hmm. I'm liking that GCPS dropship. But, I also like the Asterian one and I actually do like the Enforcer one. So, which do I wind up with? Which do I get in a battleforce and which do I pay for?

If I get the GCPS Battleforce, does it come with a Mule, or would that have to be the "free" vehicle choice?

Get all like I am, then you won't have any regrets

You get the Mule in the Battlegroup, no need to use up your free vehicle choice on it. In fact, it doesn't qualify as a choice of free vehicle anyway.

**Barzam**

I would get them all, but funds are limited and I already own most of the armies via Deadzone anyway. If the Mule is a part of the Battlegroup, I think that means I'll wind up getting them.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Azazelx wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:

It depends on what you mean by 'renege', but yes. That happened more than once.

Um, promise that a physical book will be a thing, and then turn around and say "sorry, no can do". How many times have they done it?

Matt Gilbert's 2 (TWO) adventure books. (Still mad.)
Bloodstone of Cerillion.
Deadzone short story anthology.
Probably some of the expansions that ended up mashed into one compendium book might count, too.

For feth's sake. Post that in the comments and ask them to stop promising physical books that they will never publish.

How many of those above were "freebies" and how many were paid-for add-ons?

I believe only the adventure books were going to be paid add ons...because I paid for them in the campaign phase. Bloodstone was a freebie in pdf format with the idea that we would pay for the printed version...which didn't materialize untl the author put it on some POD site. (I actually bought a copy from amazon.) The deadzone one I am kind of fuzzy on, but I remember being excited for it.

Sedition Wars also promised a novel that didn't happen. Medge will sell theirs through the kickstarter, and MERCS Recon already sold me a copy through theirs, so they had best deliver. It seems like a lot of companies view a novel as a cheap, easy stretch goal under little pressure to deliver.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, the only problems I have with the new dropship are the unarmored ducted fans, especially the third one. Other than those, that dropship looks solid and imposing.

**Azazelx**

Well, I'd be less annoyed about freebies not materialising, but regardless, surely their track record with printed books should be at the point where they stop offering them?

**scarletsquig**

The Deadzone one did make it to print, it's in the hardback compendium.

The choose your own adventure books are a big missed opportunity, they are one of those things that need to be in print... sure there's digital versions, but it just isn't the same as rolling some dice and penciling stuff in on an action sheet. with your fingers lodged in the previous 5 pages for backsies.

I would have loved to see Mantic release a whole series and revive the gaming genre.

**Talking Banana**

Ninja'd by Scarlet Squig.

**Azazelx**

So not a standalone book? Was that what they promised initially?

**BobtheInquisitor**

scarletsquig wrote:
The Deadzone one did make it to print, it's in the hardback compendium..

Technically correct. The best kind of correct!

Should we count all the fluff vignettes in all the other hardback rulebooks as short-short story and narrative prose collections in print, then? If their fiction were any more accessible, people might accidentally read it!

Yes, I'm the rare kind of gamer who won't just buy the huge hardback in order to read some fraction of fluff.

**dragqueeninspace**

Not a fan of the burster or the plagifed drop ship. The basic drop ship is really nice though. The drop ship should look salvaged and jury rigged not mutated and orcified.

**MLaw**

As someone with about 30k points of Orks, I'm not sure I see what everyone's getting at with the Orkification comments.
The bottom outline and one other spot have pieces of scrap protruding, yes. It looks more like they've fused plates on to change the outline though. Orks don't do this. They either slap orky gubbins on, deconstruct and reuse components, or slap orky repairs on busted up vehicles sure. There are no checks or dags, no lightning bolts, no mismatched big shootas.

There are however, bullet holes, bits of patched metal, and some claw looking thing added to the profile of the wing. People want it to look derelict.. well.. that's patched metal. How else, outside of the paintjob would you convey that?

I think it looks fine. Do I think they could easily be made Orky? Yes. Do I think it's where they are now? Nah, not so much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It looks more to me like

Than this

**BobtheInquisitor**

The bolted on wing claw you describe has no other purpose than to look Orky. Also, how does a vehicle catch the plague?

I know, the answer has to do with the Plague taking cues from Firefly's Reavers, but a paint job and maybe some light damage should be the only noticeable difference. If the plague 3rd gens keep enough knowledge to repair the flyers, they should retain enough to do it right.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, aren't the plague supposed to be able to infiltrate society so they can...spread the plague? Would you let some blood-painted Mad Max mother land at your starport?

**MasterSlowPoke**

No, only Stages 1 and 2 can spread the plague, and no one makes a Groucho mask convincing enough for one of them to blend in.

**sculptin'zombie**

overtyrant wrote:
Sounds like sour grapes to me. They could definitely use more QC but to saying they don't care about their customers or the quality of ther minis is BS, they are a small company that deal with ALOT of customers so some fall through the cracks (funny I've never had a problem with them in getting any issues resolved...) and their minis are getting better and better every time!

sour grapes certainly, and I have good reasons for this, but my points still stand.
I'm not saying they don't care about their customers, as they need you to come back, but the line is subtle.
And when I say they don't care about models, I mean they can't see the difference and aim to make cheap average models when just a little more effort could get you good models for the same price and would attract more players.
When I asked if Ronnie really think what he says in the company's description about doing the best miniatures I was just told that Ronnie was "talking sh*t".
Though to be fair they occasinaly want to put extra effort and I had the opportunity to sculpt some good figures. I even hopped the company was on a good way, but I was latter proven wrong. You just can't expect consistancy.

regarding Mantic minis getting better and better, that's rather subjective. What miniatures are you talking about? Enforcers? they are modified 3D scan from Remy's work, so a good base to work from. The vermyn? better material, but I personnaly don't think the sculpting as good as the old models. What other recent models have you seen? Dungeon Saga? the sculptors for most of those figures don't work for Mantic anymore.
I'm sure many of the new models will turn right, but I'm pretty sure many won't. I have seen a few things before leaving, and even if they were supposed to improve them, they had a lot of work for that....
I expect the "hit and miss" to stay the rule from Mantic.
You should also consider the staff/freelancers turnover at mantic, you can't be sure the new guys can do the same...

Some of you may remember the 1st deadzone KS, when pictures of marauders greens had been shown online and people asked them resculpted. That was also one of my first suggestion my first day at mantic. After the amount of comments online they promised to get them modified, and if people still didn't like them, to get them resculpted. I did some change on the pose (I wasn't the original sculptor btw), but tbh they should still have been redone to match the concept art. But to make sure they wouldn't need to get them resculpted (they really didn't want too) they spent a lot of time heavily photoshoping the picture (to the point it was almost repaiting a new picture) of the new conversions to make sure a majority of backers would think they are good enough. While some like the models, I think many regret that decision. I have later heard the manager who approved the models calling them "sh*t", but I guess at the time he genuily thought they were good enough for backers...
And beside the cost they also preffered to impact quality than deadline so they could tell backers they deliver in time.

The first exemple of the low quality KS add ons I mentionned in my original post was some deadzone add ons I was required to do as a rush job. To save some time on a sorak swordmaster I asked a resin copy of the original sorak to re-use the armor, but my manager had no copy and couldn't remember who did the mold so he suggested I'd use a restic production model to make the conversion... I'm sure people familiar with restic will understand what a master model converted from restic will look like once cast in metal. I was horrified by the suggestion and decided to take the time to resculpt the model from scratch, but next time something like this happens who know what you'll get.

That's just some exemples. If this is the kind of quality control you want and are happy with what you get, as I said before you can keep buying everything unseen. If not I suggest having a look at the finished product first.

As for people asking what I had done for Mantic, they include many deadzone figures (goblin snipers, characters, plague stuff including teraton but also 3rd gen, yes I know you don't like them, and take the critics but that's what they were supposed to be and you get what you pay for), dreadball/DBX, some king of wars and about 80% of dungeon saga (undeads, greenskins, half the heroes and half the abyssals, which I hope prove I can do proper proportions too)

just for the record, the quality of my work was not the problem, and they would have liked me to keep doing some occasional sculpting for them (but that's not going to happen)
It's just that after getting me to move from France to UK they changed their plans and decided they wouldn't need a full time sculptor anymore and I should leave, so yes, I'm a little pissed off at them, but if you think that affect my judgment, keep in mind I have been saying similar things with more chosen words to the management for 2 years and have been trying hard to improve things here (which only agravated my dispointement with the latest turnsof events)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azazelx wrote:

In that case, it defeats your initial proposition. "The vocal folks" is a bit broad, and while I for example am not shy of criticising Mantic, I've spent thousands of dollars on their products. More importantly, any of us who has a wallet and are willing to open them are their target audience. Let's face it - people who post "vocally" on wargames forums, facebook, run games at game clubs, blog, vlog, etc are a boon to have on your side because they spread the message about your product. OTOH Someone like Kroothawk, who appeared to simply hate Mantic rather vocally might not be their audience, but I really think that almost everyone in this thread are hoping that Mantic do well - and produce better models and rules going forward. Naturally people do want the best deals for their money a year in advance, and while there are some here that will gratefully take anything offered and water carry or white knight any criticism of their favourite thing, those people are probably more counter-productive to Mantic's future than the critical ones, especially when you consider that pretty much any one product released by GW will take in more revenue than all of Mantic's in a year.

The size of that vast untapped market is immense, and Mantic need to continue to improve and be willing to take on board criticism/feedback of their models instead of ignoring them at the behest of those most emotionally invested in them. There's been plenty of valid critiques brought up in this thread over the last however-many pages that makes me wonder how certain things got through to the KS. Then again, I work in a large enough organisation to know that often the people who make certain decisions aren't always the best people to make those particular decisions. I've spent the last 7 months at work cleaning up someone else's mess and making improvements to the way certain things are run. No reason to think it's any different at Mantic or anywhere else.

nope, no one at Mantic was doing this job (same person in charge for 3 years), at least regarding miniature improvement. As I said before all efforts have been in other departements.

as for listening to "The vocal folks", if you have something to say you should say it in the KS comments, they won't read comments here, at my time in Mantic when I (or someone else) would read the forum or bring some comments to the management's attention I was just told I shouldn't read it or pay attention because people here (or another forum) are "mean". At least it was 1 year ago, comments sounds more positive now, maybe they should start reading again!

**sculptin'zombie**

sculptin'zombie wrote:
overtyrant wrote:
Sounds like sour grapes to me. They could definitely use more QC but to saying they don't care about their customers or the quality of ther minis is BS, they are a small company that deal with ALOT of customers so some fall through the cracks (funny I've never had a problem with them in getting any issues resolved...) and their minis are getting better and better every time!

sour grapes certainly, and I have good reasons for this, but my points still stand.
I'm not saying they don't care about their customers, as they need you to come back, but the line is subtle.
And when I say they don't care about models, I mean they can't see the difference and aim to make cheap average models when just a little more effort could get you good models for the same price and would attract more players.
When I asked if Ronnie really think what he says in the company's description about doing the best miniatures I was just told that Ronnie was "talking sh*t".
Though to be fair they occasinaly want to put extra effort and I had the opportunity to sculpt some good figures. I even hopped the company was on a good way, but I was latter proven wrong. You just can't expect consistancy.

regarding Mantic minis getting better and better, that's rather subjective. What miniatures are you talking about? Enforcers? they are modified 3D scan from Remy's work, so a good base to work from. The vermyn? better material, but I personnaly don't think the sculpting as good as the old models. What other recent models have you seen? Dungeon Saga? the sculptors for most of those figures don't work for Mantic anymore.
I'm sure many of the new models will turn right, but I'm pretty sure many won't. I have seen a few things before leaving, and even if they were supposed to improve them, they had a lot of work for that....
I expect the "hit and miss" to stay the rule from Mantic.
You should also consider the staff/freelancers turnover at mantic, you can't be sure the new guys can do the same...

Some of you may remember the 1st deadzone KS, when pictures of marauders greens had been shown online and people asked them resculpted. That was also one of my first suggestion my first day at mantic. After the amount of comments online they promised to get them modified, and if people still didn't like them, to get them resculpted. I did some change on the pose (I wasn't the original sculptor btw), but tbh they should still have been redone to match the concept art. But to make sure they wouldn't need to get them resculpted (they really didn't want too) they spent a lot of time heavily photoshoping the picture (to the point it was almost repaiting a new picture) of the new conversions to make sure a majority of backers would think they are good enough. While some like the models, I think many regret that decision. I have later heard the manager who approved the models calling them "sh*t", but I guess at the time he genuily thought they were good enough for backers...
And beside the cost they also preffered to impact quality than deadline so they could tell backers they deliver in time.

The first exemple of the low quality KS add ons I mentionned in my original post was some deadzone add ons I was required to do as a rush job. To save some time on a sorak swordmaster I asked a resin copy of the original sorak to re-use the armor, but my manager had no copy and couldn't remember who did the mold so he suggested I'd use a restic production model to make the conversion... I'm sure people familiar with restic will understand what a master model converted from restic will look like once cast in metal. I was horrified by the suggestion and decided to take the time to resculpt the model from scratch, but next time something like this happens who know what you'll get.

That's just some exemples. If this is the kind of quality control you want and are happy with what you get, as I said before you can keep buying everything unseen. If not I suggest having a look at the finished product first.

Be particulary carefull with metal casting from digital sculpt as they kept using lower res print to reduce cost, and the result isn't very pretty.

As for people asking what I had done for Mantic, they include many deadzone figures (goblin snipers, characters, plague stuff including teraton but also 3rd gen, yes I know you don't like them, and take the critics but that's what they were supposed to be and you get what you pay for), dreadball/DBX, some king of wars and about 80% of dungeon saga (undeads, greenskins, half the heroes and half the abyssals, which I hope prove I can do proper proportions too)

just for the record, the quality of my work was not the problem, and they would have liked me to keep doing some occasional sculpting for them (but that's not going to happen)
It's just that after getting me to move from France to UK they changed their plans and decided they wouldn't need a full time sculptor anymore and I should leave, so yes, I'm a little pissed off at them, but if you think that affect my judgment, keep in mind I have been saying similar things with more chosen words to the management for 2 years and have been trying hard to improve things here (which only agravated my dispointement with the latest turnsof events)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azazelx wrote:

In that case, it defeats your initial proposition. "The vocal folks" is a bit broad, and while I for example am not shy of criticising Mantic, I've spent thousands of dollars on their products. More importantly, any of us who has a wallet and are willing to open them are their target audience. Let's face it - people who post "vocally" on wargames forums, facebook, run games at game clubs, blog, vlog, etc are a boon to have on your side because they spread the message about your product. OTOH Someone like Kroothawk, who appeared to simply hate Mantic rather vocally might not be their audience, but I really think that almost everyone in this thread are hoping that Mantic do well - and produce better models and rules going forward. Naturally people do want the best deals for their money a year in advance, and while there are some here that will gratefully take anything offered and water carry or white knight any criticism of their favourite thing, those people are probably more counter-productive to Mantic's future than the critical ones, especially when you consider that pretty much any one product released by GW will take in more revenue than all of Mantic's in a year.

The size of that vast untapped market is immense, and Mantic need to continue to improve and be willing to take on board criticism/feedback of their models instead of ignoring them at the behest of those most emotionally invested in them. There's been plenty of valid critiques brought up in this thread over the last however-many pages that makes me wonder how certain things got through to the KS. Then again, I work in a large enough organisation to know that often the people who make certain decisions aren't always the best people to make those particular decisions. I've spent the last 7 months at work cleaning up someone else's mess and making improvements to the way certain things are run. No reason to think it's any different at Mantic or anywhere else.

nope, no one at Mantic was doing this job (same person in charge for 3 years), at least regarding miniature improvement. As I said before all efforts have been in other departements.

as for listening to "The vocal folks", if you have something to say you should say it in the KS comments, they won't read comments here, at my time in Mantic when I (or someone else) would read the forum or bring some comments to the management's attention I was just told I shouldn't read it or pay attention because people here (or another forum) are "mean". At least it was 1 year ago, comments sounds more positive now, maybe they should start reading again!

**Mort**

sculptin'zombie wrote:

as for listening to "The vocal folks", if you have something to say you should say it in the KS comments, they won't read comments here, at my time in Mantic when I (or someone else) would read the forum or bring some comments to the management's attention I was just told I shouldn't read it or pay attention because people here (or another forum) are "mean". At least it was 1 year ago, comments sounds more positive now, maybe they should start reading again!

So you're pissed off at your ex-employer. You feel you have good reason to be. That's great!

But... what is the point of your rants here so far? To warn us that some of Mantic's future minis will be hit or miss? We knew that already - hell, some of GW's figs are 'hit or miss'.

So what's your agenda, other than to bash your ex-employer? What 'news and rumors' can you offer?

**Azazelx**

sculptin'zombie wrote:

regarding Mantic minis getting better and better, that's rather subjective. What miniatures are you talking about? Enforcers? they are modified 3D scan from Remy's work, so a good base to work from. The vermyn? better material, but I personnaly don't think the sculpting as good as the old models. What other recent models have you seen? Dungeon Saga? the sculptors for most of those figures don't work for Mantic anymore.
I'm sure many of the new models will turn right, but I'm pretty sure many won't. I have seen a few things before leaving, and even if they were supposed to improve them, they had a lot of work for that....
I expect the "hit and miss" to stay the rule from Mantic.
You should also consider the staff/freelancers turnover at mantic, you can't be sure the new guys can do the same...

Any company will have turnover. Aragorn Marks was indie, then worked for GW, then went indie again in seemingly the blink of an eye. Juan Diaz, that guy who did the GW beastmen and is now doing more beastmen for Mierce - a company built entirely on freelancers. It's hard to say much about Mantic since they, like GW, seem to avoid giving a lot of info on who sculpted what. As for which recent models are "better" - the Ogre Berserkers are much better than those models that preceded them, both the Restic ones and the Metal Ogre Sham that's been sitting around for a couple years and has just been released. The Metal Chaos Dwarf sorcerer guy with two heads, also.

The first exemple of the low quality KS add ons I mentionned in my original post was some deadzone add ons I was required to do as a rush job. To save some time on a sorak swordmaster I asked a resin copy of the original sorak to re-use the armor, but my manager had no copy and couldn't remember who did the mold so he suggested I'd use a restic production model to make the conversion... I'm sure people familiar with restic will understand what a master model converted from restic will look like once cast in metal. I was horrified by the suggestion and decided to take the time to resculpt the model from scratch, but next time something like this happens who know what you'll get.

As for people asking what I had done for Mantic, they include many deadzone figures (goblin snipers, characters, plague stuff including teraton but also 3rd gen, yes I know you don't like them, and take the critics but that's what they were supposed to be and you get what you pay for), dreadball/DBX, some king of wars and about 80% of dungeon saga (undeads, greenskins, half the heroes and half the abyssals, which I hope prove I can do proper proportions too)

just for the record, the quality of my work was not the problem, and they would have liked me to keep doing some occasional sculpting for them (but that's not going to happen)
It's just that after getting me to move from France to UK they changed their plans and decided they wouldn't need a full time sculptor anymore and I should leave, so yes, I'm a little pissed off at them, but if you think that affect my judgment, keep in mind I have been saying similar things with more chosen words to the management for 2 years and have been trying hard to improve things here (which only agravated my dispointement with the latest turnsof events)

At this point you'e outed yourself to anyone in the know, so you may as well post your name here and let us know what else you've sculpted for other companies. I'm interested in taking a peek for the sake of comparison. Which KoW stuff?

**AlexHolker**

I think the new dropship might actually be worse than the last one. I've seen Lego spaceplanes that are less blocky than this rubbish.

**BrookM**

I'm new to the whole Mantic KS things, so please pardon these questions if they've been answered before in this thread or another, previous campaign:

1. How long do they usually keep the pledge manager open post-campaign?

2. If I'm pledging for a single mini and maybe an extra plastic sprue of five models, how favourable will shipping be?

3. Is there any word on whether or not we'll see renders or greens of the GCPS troopers soon?

**Azazelx**

sculptin'zombie wrote:

Azazelx wrote:

The size of that vast untapped market is immense, and Mantic need to continue to improve and be willing to take on board criticism/feedback of their models instead of ignoring them at the behest of those most emotionally invested in them. There's been plenty of valid critiques brought up in this thread over the last however-many pages that makes me wonder how certain things got through to the KS. Then again, I work in a large enough organisation to know that often the people who make certain decisions aren't always the best people to make those particular decisions. I've spent the last 7 months at work cleaning up someone else's mess and making improvements to the way certain things are run. No reason to think it's any different at Mantic or anywhere else.

nope, no one at Mantic was doing this job (same person in charge for 3 years), at least regarding miniature improvement. As I said before all efforts have been in other departements.

as for listening to "The vocal folks", if you have something to say you should say it in the KS comments, they won't read comments here, at my time in Mantic when I (or someone else) would read the forum or bring some comments to the management's attention I was just told I shouldn't read it or pay attention because people here (or another forum) are "mean". At least it was 1 year ago, comments sounds more positive now, maybe they should start reading again!

The KS comments are too vast, and anything of value gets lost unless picked up by the general hive-mind. They're also a toilet. We did have one of the Mantic staffers mention that they were following this thread earlier on, so I'm satisfied with that. I don't expect them to spend hours replying.

**angelofvengeance**

AlexHolker wrote:
I think the new dropship might actually be worse than the last one. I've seen Lego spaceplanes that are less blocky than this rubbish.

I confess I'm not particularly fond of any of the aircraft. Not much character to them at all IMO. That or I've been severely spoiled by GW's excellent kits. Probably the latter...

**BobtheInquisitor**

BrookM wrote:
I'm new to the whole Mantic KS things, so please pardon these questions if they've been answered before in this thread or another, previous campaign:

1. How long do they usually keep the pledge manager open post-campaign?

2. If I'm pledging for a single mini and maybe an extra plastic sprue of five models, how favourable will shipping be?

3. Is there any word on whether or not we'll see renders or greens of the GCPS troopers soon?

1. I've heard two months, but they've never been consistent/ KoW2 did not have the third wave they promised, whereas DZ 2 they left the manager open longer than they'd given.

2. Probably not too bad.

3. We will see the greens or renders just as soon as you close your pledge manager order and they charge your card. They've been consistent about that.

Pledging a dollar to see the pledge manager (and the shipping rates) is probably your safest bet.

**Talking Banana**

Hey sculptin' zombie,

Mostly what I would like to say is thank you for your high standards and the good work you did. You sculpted some great stuff during your time at Mantic - many of the figures you listed are among my favorites. You may not be working with Mantic anymore, but let us know how to keep track of your work and progress. Miniature companies often seem to like to keep their sculptors anonymous, but we do notice good quality when we see it, and like to follow good talent. I take it your first name begins with an S, last name with a Q? (I don't know if you want your real name printed here, hence the capital letters.) We do pay attention, and I've really enjoyed your work.

I wonder, honestly, if part of what happened to you was due to changes in the industry. Personally I think there are some things hand sculpting just does better than digital, and that there are qualities to hand sculpted work that digital will never recapture. I don't know if you work in digital also, but I could see miniature companies increasingly turning to digital sculpts for faster, cheaper results. I enjoy both hand and digitally sculpted work, but I hope there will always be a place in the industry for talented traditional sculptors.

Mantic do have bizarre artistic hiccups. Deadzone was a mixed bag of great sculpts and terrible ones. Overall, in no small part due to your work it seems, Deadzone was worth it for me. And while the 3rd Gen designs weren't to my taste, one in particular - the guy with the hanging arm and crooked fingers - that sculpt really was exceptional work. Well done. But as to Mantic, they do get enough great sculpts that it boggles my mind when they cut corners and produce bad ones, taking the resulting hit in sales. The Marauder ripper suits could have been a huge hit if they'd been better sculpts, their material notwithstanding.

On the other hand, Games Workshop has infinitely more money and resources than Mantic does, but they also produce terrible sculpts sometimes. There are smaller companies with higher aesthetic standards than GW, of course, but to be fair, Mantic aren't the only ones who stumble.

Particularly if you end up doing sci-fi miniatures again, Monsieur Q, I'd love to know about it.

**NTRabbit**

angelofvengeance wrote:
I confess I'm not particularly fond of any of the aircraft. Not much character to them at all IMO. That or I've been severely spoiled by GW's excellent kits. Probably the latter...

Do you mean FW? I think all of the FW flyers are great, but most of the GW-proper flyers look like rancid ass.