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HQ

*        Grandmaster - Azarael
- Wargear - Same as previous but with some amendments.

*        Belial - Master of the Deathwing

*        Sammael - Master of the Ravenwing
- Wargear Jetbike (armed with TL-Storm Bolters & under slung Plasma Cannon)
and other stuff
- May switch to his Land Speeder in which case he now counts as a vehicle
and wargear Shield of night now provides AV14 front and sides.
- If Sammael is included in a army one attack squadron may be upgraded to a
Ravenwing command squad (Ravenwing standard bearer and Apothecary).

*        Company Master (Master of the 3rd, 4th and 5th companies)
- May take a five man command squad but doesn't have to join them.

*        Ezekiel - Grandmaster of the Librarians
- comes with both DA Psyker powers plus Mindworm.

*        Dark Angels Librarian
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines except has two unique powers -
Hellfire and Force Barrier (may not change them).

*        Dark Angels Chaplain
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines, may be upgraded to
Interrogator Chaplains
- May take Terminator armour, bikes or Jump Packs.

*        Dark Angels Command squads (max 5 models) are a HQ choice but do not
take up a HQ slot you can take one for IC but they do not automatically form
a retinue and may separate.
- Fearless
- May only take a Company Champion Upgrade if a Company Master is part of
the army

Elites

*        Deathwing Terminator squad
- Squad Size is five models (no more/no less).
- All members of the Deathwing are fearless
- Only one heavy weapon per squad (One assault cannon, one Cyclone launcher
or one heavy flamer).
- Squad can include a mixture of standard and close combat terminators.
- Uses special rule 'Deathwing Assault' up to 50% of terminator squads may
deepstrike in the first turn without having to roll for deepstrike.
- Terminators are cheaper than the old Dark Angel codex but more expensive
than Codex Space Marine Terminators

*        Company Veterans squad
- Base of five models and up to an additional five (although a max. squad of
ten is needed to use the rule 'combat squads').
- Can take a mixture of weaponry (combi-weapons, storm bolters, special and
heavy weapons).

*        Techmarines
- Counts as elites but does not use an Elite slot in the FoC.
- One Techmarine may be taken for each non transport vehicle included in an
army.

*        Dark Angels Scout Squad
- Base is five marines and veteran sgt.
- May include a further five scouts.
- Armed with Krak, Frag and bolt pistol and one of the following as standard
- Bolter, Shotgun or Close Combat weapon.
- Shotgun is now S4.
- Rest of options similar to scout squads.

Troops

*        Tactical squad
- Uses 'combat squads' rule
- May take a special weapon if five marines and a special and heavy weapon
if ten marines (heavy weapon includes plasma cannon)

*        Ravenwing Attack squadron (If Master of the Ravenwing taken).

*        Deathwing Terminator Squad (If Master of the Deathwing taken).

Fast Attack

*        Assault squad
- Uses 'combat squads' rule

*        Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- Base of three bikes (may add another three to a maximum of six.
- All Ravenwing bikes are fearless.
- All Ravenwing bikes (including attack bikes) come with teleport homers and
Scout USR as standard
- Two bikes may take a special weapon (flamer, melta or plasma at a points
cost).
- Attack bike can be added as standard
- If squadron consists of maximum bikes (six) then a land speeder Tornado
may be added.
- Squadron is deployed at the same time but may be separated into four
scoring units (2x3 bikes, 1 x attack bike and 1 x land speeder Tornado).

*        Ravenwing Support Squadron
- Base is one land speeder.
- May include up to four more land speeders, one may be a Tornado and one
more a Typhoon.

Heavy Support

*        Devastators
- May use 'combat' squads rule allowing squad to be split into 2x5 marines;
this allows you to split out heavy weapons into two units.

Vehicle information

*        Vehicles come with searchlights and smoke launchers as standard
equipment.

*        Drop pods are more expensive all other vehicles remain at the same
price or are cheaper.

*        Whirlwinds have an option for incendiary Castellan missiles that
remove cover saves.

*        Dreadnoughts may take a Plasma cannon or Twin-linked Autocannon.

General Information

*        All Dark Angels wearing power armoured come with krak, frag and bolt
pistols as standard

*        All Dark Angels squads are led by veteran sergeants.

*        Standards of Fortitude, Devastation and Retribution now come under a
single classification of 'sacred standard' and require an
interrogator-chaplain in the army to use.

*        No veteran skills available to Dark Angels.

*        Codex follows the same format as the recently released Eldar codex.

*        'Combat squads' used for many selections, base is five models and
then may be given another five models for a maximum of 10. When deployed
unit may be split into two separate scoring units.

*        Jink Save for the Ravenwing is gone.

*        Stubborn and Intractable are gone.

*        Rules for Cypher are not included in the codex

*        No Mortis Dreadnought in the codex.

Miniature Information

*        Several new HQ models including two new captains (already seen)
along with remakes of named characters.

*        Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of
better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets).
Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies.

*        New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder)

*        New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon.

*        2 army deals will be available - 1 Ravenwing and 1 normal Dark
Angels

*        New model for Cypher.

*        Cypher is getting a new model. The new model of Cypher is confirmed,
due for a late release. The model is in a pose crossed between the Emperor's
champion and the LOTR Witch King. I hope you get what I mean. He is looking
slightly downwards, and is armed with a very nice sword and some pistol I
didn't recognise. (source Destris)

*        Plastic Devastators and potentially a plastic Drop pod maybe
released alongside the codex.


All information from a good friend of mine who plays DA, & surfs various forums.  He's gathered this information and e-mailed it to me a the other guys I play with in the area.  Figgured it might be good to share it with my fellow dakka-ites.

Take it easy everyone

-Red__Thirst-

nica bit of info, I dont understand where GW is going with the re introduction of combat squads.

Playing an all Raven Wing army looks to be a LOT of fun. I'm looking forwards to seeing just how much of this is really in the 'dex. Should be fun to learn how to counteract an army that plays so differently from normal space marines and black templars.

Hopefully this makes some of the DA players here on 'dakka happy, if not interested in seeing what the future holds.

Take it easy.

-RT-

Ravenwing does look very interesting. 4 units per FA slot? That has potential.

Man, that looks kinda crazy. Since we don't know the exact points of anything it will be hard to really quantify this, but it seems that the DA can have more scoring units on the table than any other army. If each Troops squad can be split, and each Ravenwing attack squad can be split, same with Devastators and Assault Squads... It would be REALLY difficult to win a Quarters-control game against the DA.

If the squads are really expensive, though, I can see where they would need the help found with splitting their units. It appears that you can have either a 5 man Tac squad OR a 10 man strong one, nothing in between. That could be limiting and pricey.

Still, I can see cagey players splitting squads up to the point that they would always be contesting a quarter or three - a small Tac squad out of sight can hold a quarter for little cost and risk.

Let's see how they lose compared to vanilla:

No 6 man las-plas squads

No 5 man dual ass-can termie squads

More expensive drop pods

Conversely, they get some good stuff. Terminators get Fearless instead of stubborn. They get to DS 1/2 their Termie squads on turn 1 without a roll. Wow. Although you only get 1/2 the real firepower of a vanilla termie squad, you get on the table turn 1. In an escalation game, where perhaps your opponent has a lot off the board, this lets you really get a jump on some good real estate. Drop in on turn 1 and set up camp. That's not bad. But it looks like they're really hyping the Deathwing Termie onslaught by giving Ravenwing bikes teleport homers as standard. That's just awesome. Not only do we get the sweet idea of bike squads scouting the enemy and calling in firepower, the game mechanics actually work in our favor! Turbo-boost 24" turn 1 and call in the Termie-Bomb--but you can call it in in multiple places! Rush a few squads forward and ask your opponent to call your bluff. Multiple teleport homers running around the board on fast-ass bikes sounds dangerous.

I don't know that I buy all these rumors. The nerfing of Tac Squad and Termie firepower is enough to make me question them. But it still sounds interesting.

So they're 2nd edition marines?

With all the set squad sizes, gonna be hard to fill out an army list to exact points...Probably end up having alot of 1800 point lists in 1850 games...

Plus, I don't like the idea of set sizes...I just...Don't...Makes for really boring games to HAVE to put that many points into troops with little return. I'm guessing DA really are getting hit with the nerf stick bad. Wolves might actually have a chance against them now

So it's not a cut and paste from my indentical thread on Warseer then.

I don't care but at least give the source website some credit.

I'm not sure quite what to make of these rumors.  The Ravenwing sound pretty deadly, but the lack of 2 asscans really hurts the Deathwing.  Mixed Termy squads seem like a point sink and something that won't be able to do either job as well as a specialized squad, but some lightning claws for the veteran sarge will likely make the unit better at charging some enemies.

The combat squads deal is a little odd, but it may be useful.  If all Dark angels count as having bolt pistols does that mean they all have a bolter, bolt pisol, and close combat weapon?  I wonder if it is possible to stick the plasma and lascannon in the same half and put the sarge with the power fist and other marines forward as a n objective grabbing close combat squad?

It seems like the new DA codex is all about throwing a lot of nasty little units at the enemy all at once and hoping he can't deal with them all at once.  We'll see how this plays out, but its good to know that they at least get a little more flavor than they did before.

i was so pissed when they went from being these dark badasses to sub-par vanilla marines that decided that they weren't going to move sometimes.  ugggh.

Deathwing squads with 1 heavy weapon: this seems odd considering the DA accessory sprue was rumored to have an extra assault cannon so termie squads could finally have 2. One of those two rumors has to be false, unless GW is just that slowed.
I guess the return to mixed terminator squads also means that dedicated assault squads have to have a sergeant with a power sword and bolter. That, combined with no veteran skills and 5-man squads, makes assault terminators seem not so hot for DA...

Posted By Brimstone on 12/07/2006 3:47 PM

Posted By Red__Thirst on 12/07/2006 1:47 PM]
All information from a good friend of mine who plays DA, & surfs various forums. He's gathered this information and e-mailed it to me a the other guys I play with in the area. Figgured it might be good to share it with my fellow dakka-ites. -Red__Thirst-

So it's not a cut and paste from my indentical thread on Warseer then.

I don't care but at least give the source website some credit.

Had my friend mentioned which forum specifically he had copied and pasted the info from I would have followed suit.  Thank you for letting me know the original source. 

I don't frequent warseer very often.  If I had, I'm sure I would have known. 

In any event, I'll go ahead and say the following: 

Because I didn't know the orginial source, but recieved the information second-hand I opted to go with the best option I had; My friend got the information from various forums.  Now that I know that Brim here originally posted it, please see Warseer for the original source of the information.

Thank you and have a nice day.

This has been a public service announcement brought to you by the letters W, O, E and the numbers 1, 6, and 9

-RT-

Posted By skyth on 12/07/2006 3:39 PM
Plus, I don't like the idea of set sizes...I just...Don't...Makes for really boring games to HAVE to put that many points into troops with little return. I'm guessing DA really are getting hit with the nerf stick bad. Wolves might actually have a chance against them now

I thought I had read on Warseer, possibly, that you could have more than 5 marines in a squad, but you still couldn't access the Heavy weapon until you got to 10.  You also were then treated like a normal squad, and weren't eligible to split into 'combat squads'. 

So, how I understood was: 5-9 marines = 1 special weapon, 10 marines = special + heavy, and can split into combat squads.

It'll be different, but it will also open up a whole host of opportunities (i.e. 10 man Dev squad, 2 HB, 2 Lascannon, split into two combat squads, one anti-tank, one anti-horde, for one slot on the Force Org chart.)

As an OT observation, the 3 scoring unit "split" for the Fast Attack choice has major merit when combined with the Adepticon 40k Team Tournament Force Organization chart where the "Scoring Unit per FoC Slot" ratios are golden and scoring units are hard to maximize.

If it's expected release date jives, it will also be allowed at Adepticon. I'd love to fight DA instead of the 30% expected Eldar or NidZilla's I'm expecting now

From the looks of it the Dark Angels are getting a pretty big Nef compared to Codex Marines. Deathwing is going to drop in popularity right quick I think with the loss of the second heavy weapon and less importantly the lack of veteran skills. I'm fully expecting to see a lot of Deathwing armies with some white/bone painted scouts "counting as" a DIY Marine chapter.

Sure they're getting a lot of scoring units, but I don't know if that will be enough to compensate for all the power loss they're going to have compared to normal Marines.

From a fluff/non power gaming view this actually looks awesome and probably should be applied to the normal Marine dex, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Also, as far as GW putting another assault cannon on the Dark Angels sprue, well it makes sure that people go out and buy the Dark Angels box for all their other armies to get a cheap second assault cannon for their non dark angels terminator squads. 

If that 1 heavy weapon thing is true, my DW is going to become an ultramarines first company.  Also; 5 men flat for the termie squads? WTF!? That would nerf the teleporting DW, which means that it's all pods from here, negating the 1st turn deepstrike thing. Looks like the nerf gun has its sights set on DW...sigh...

cheers

Don't panic just yet. Remember this is just rumors and there is still hope for the DW. There is still the possibitity GW will read this forum and make changes. My cup is half full man.

I thaught that the new rules for termies, combat squads ect (basically more true to a codex chapter than todays min/maxed las plas squads) were to be applied to all codex chapters? is this not the case?

Posted By Cruentus on 12/08/2006 5:56 AM

Posted By skyth on 12/07/2006 3:39 PM
Plus, I don't like the idea of set sizes...I just...Don't...Makes for really boring games to HAVE to put that many points into troops with little return. I'm guessing DA really are getting hit with the nerf stick bad. Wolves might actually have a chance against them now

I thought I had read on Warseer, possibly, that you could have more than 5 marines in a squad, but you still couldn't access the Heavy weapon until you got to 10.  You also were then treated like a normal squad, and weren't eligible to split into 'combat squads'. 

So, how I understood was: 5-9 marines = 1 special weapon, 10 marines = special + heavy, and can split into combat squads.

It'll be different, but it will also open up a whole host of opportunities (i.e. 10 man Dev squad, 2 HB, 2 Lascannon, split into two combat squads, one anti-tank, one anti-horde, for one slot on the Force Org chart.)

You are incorrect. You buy 5 Marines, then can buy 5 more marines and a Veteran Sergeant.

Looks like the whiners win again

They got the starcannon nerfed

Now they're getting the assault cannon nerfed (1 per termie squad, 1 tornado per landspeeder squad)

Plus no heavy weapon in a squad unless you buy a 10 man squad.

Fortunately, this doesn't apply to C:SM.

It doesn't apply 'yet'. *insert maniacal laughter*

@hobbs: Source? You know this for certain? Or are you just guessing like the rest of us based on 'rumors'? That's what I thought.

who cares, lets just wait and see.

All the talk of DA nerfing presumes they weren't nerfed already.

I've been playing my DAs as vanilla since 4th Edition came out. They're basically just normal Marines, but with some special abilities that they have to pay for, and which are stupid when you have ASTKNF already. Currently they're basically just the same as vanilla, with a small markup on a few units.

And Deathwing? It's not like they're a dominating list as things stand now. They're fun and popular, but they're just not that great. The single Assault Cannon rule would break the back of Deathwing, though. If you can't load up on Assault Cannons, Terminators lose a ton of their appeal.

Amen to that. The only thing interesting in those rumors is the possible bike changes, but ultimately, they're marine bikes and they're always a juicy target for shooting, even when they turbo-boost.

I think the streangth of the Dark Angels will be in their ability to mix Ravenwing and Deathwing armies.

If you notice, all you have to do is take a Deathwing Master to get Deathwing Terminators as troops, but guess what, you still have access to the rest of the codex. Which means Ravenwing Fast Attack choices rushing Teleport Homers forward and dropping Terminators and Dreadnought Drop Pods on your opponents head.

But who cares if you're dropping terminators on my head if they're half as effective.

Posted By Cruentus on 12/08/2006 11:35 AM
It doesn't apply 'yet'. *insert maniacal laughter*

If they make it apply to C:SM, then likely I won't be playing Space marines much, if at all, after that.

I hate making my lists to satisfy whiners, and even when I try, they still whine.

Wait a sec. I'm assuming these "Company Masters" are the Dark Angels equivalent of captains? Does this mean that Dark Angels can't get a commander with Ld10 unless they take the Chapter Master special character (who presumably comes with set equipment)?