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Plastic is so much easier to work with Also easier to convert

Although I do find plastic easier to worth with, I find metal much easier to paint. Conversely, I'm not particularly afraid of hurting a plastic miniature (vehicles and such notwithstanding) when I drop it, but if I drop anything metal, my heart stops beating as I check whether or not I've chipped or otherwise hurt it.

Yeah metal tends to explode when you drop it, not to mention it being severly traumatized by the drop by becoming squashed.

Plastic, on the whole is a far superior medium for wargaming miniatures on the skirmish level.

Anything that can be ranked up is ok to have in metal, as the risk of damage is considerably reduced.

that sthe adv of plastic, you drop it you dont tend to break it or chip the paint work. meta is the opposite

Posted By Jester on 12/10/2006 11:30 PM

Posted By Hellfury on 12/10/2006 10:01 PM

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/10/2006 7:38 PM

You hush, you.

 

They're crossdressers, not homosexual.  There's a difference.

Ki would know...

The sad fact is that the Astartes have no choice but to be that way.  The average Space Marine is just too powerful, too potent for even the most superlative human female to satisfy.  Her kegels would snap like old rubber bands, as my dad used to say. 

A Sister of Battle could, perhaps, but she would be as bow-legged as a Morely sculpt for a month, not to mention she would be knocked up with a baby ogryn-sized mass of fecundity writhing in her nether viscera, eager to burst free and start kicking holes in tanks and beating things to death with large blunt objects.

And I haven't even mentioned the whole psychological aspect of it, I can't imagine the trauma that goes with the conversion process.  Drugs and conditioning can only go so far. A ordinary human cannot fathom the solitude that goes along with being one of the Angels of Death.  Sure, he is lauded as a hero after he kills the aliens that were going to destroy your pitiful world, and you scatter space rose petals at his feet in the victory parade, but what about after?  In that small, dark place in the pit of his psyche he knows that he is seen as a monster, a barely understood tool that is tolerated only when necessary.

Luckily, his Battle Brothers are there to help him, and he cleaves to them when his will is flagging, as they do to him.  

That had to be the funniest damn thing I've ever read on this forum.  It's not often that I read something online that makes me laugh so hard. 

Haven't you read ANY of my posts?

Try to stay somewhere close to on topic, guys. It's annoying to have to keep locking threads.

Ok then so staying on topic for once what other DA related rumours have people heard?? ANYBODY got a pick of this so called master on jetbike or was that all a bunch of lies??

I believe there is a glimpse of the MoR on Jetbike in the Sneak Previews on the GW website, but it doesn't show enough to let you know what the bike looks like.

Any word on whether DA's are going to still have their Plasma affinity?

Posted By Ahtman on 12/14/2006 4:39 PM
Any word on whether DA's are going to still have their Plasma affinity?

This is my question. I really liked them in 3rd ed where I could field a stubborn force of pure plasma(all my tac squads had plas/plas cannon) so my guys just stuck around and fought. Very shooty, and stuck to the nature of the DA. It seems like the removal of stubborn kinda kills the chapter in a way. I liked it as it wasn't fearless, and it stuck with DA on the entire "Let's hunt the fallen all over the place no matter what" aspect.

Also, making them more Codex Astartes then the ultramarine seems stupid. It's sad that the chapter of the creator of the codex has more special units then a chapter shrouded in mystery made up of elite terminator legion and a specialized recon force.

On a side note, referencing the DA devastator pics, only GW would put a plasma pistol AND power fist on a devastator vet sarge.



3 words. Useless. Point. Sink.

It's funny, I used to be really pleased with all the stuff coming out in plastic, but I feel like a lot of the newer kits (post-cadians, specifically) are softer and of less detail. Ironically, while all this plasticy goodness is coming out, I'm drifting more and more toward metal figs, even one-piecers. O_o

The combat squad nerf and the assault cannon nerf means that no one is going to play Dark Angels in a competetive environment methinks.

Posted By skyth on 12/16/2006 7:40 AM
The combat squad nerf and the assault cannon nerf means that no one is going to play Dark Angels in a competetive environment methinks.

Oh yeah? I will. I'll lose but I'll still do it.

So there.

Maybe I should rephrase that - No one will play and win with them

It really depends in the end if all the bonuses offset the new "penalties". I would really like them to apply most of these new rules back to the main Space Marine codex. It would fix a lot of the min/max problems. I really like what they are doing with the Dark Angel codex so far.

I think I might actually be able to make them work. I'm still winning with Rhinos and a Razorback. The toughest hurdle to clear will be having to have ten man tac squads to get heavy weapons, but good use of the Devs may be able to offset that problem. Not to mention that I'll be able to afford some more marines with the cheaper vehicles. And no one's going to whine when I pull out a unit of Termies with a single assault cannon.

One of the nice things about playing an army that's perceived as underpowered is that you get stand out from the crowd, and it may give a little boost to the soft scores as well.

I'm willing to bet that if indeed most of the rumors here are true the Dark Angels will become a formidable force. Playing very much like normal marines, but with some very stark differences.

Also, you walk into a tournament playing "Dark Angels" your opponents won't know exactly which army you're playing. Death Wing? Raven Wing? "vanilla" Dark Angels? Mix of all three?

Just some thoughts/speculation:

If combat squads are in place, and apply to Terminator squads, it could make them very very powerful.

HQ: Master of the Death Wing Special Character

Troops: 10 man terminator squad, divided into two five man squads, assault cannon in each.

Troops: 10 man terminator sqaud, divided into two five man squads, assault cannon in each.

Fast Attack: Ravenwing squad, consisting of at least 3 bikes (Which get the Scout USR, and built in Tele-Homers)

That's the basic list.

We can estimate the MotDW will run at most 200 points.

The Deathwing Terminator Squads will cost about 440 some odd points each

The Ravenwing bike squad will probably run around 90 to 100 some odd points without any upgrades.

So, that's 1180 to 1200 points, leaving around 650 points to play with to bring the list up to 1850 tournament size.

Using the deathwing assault, where half of the terminators teleport in on turn 1 with no roll, guided by the bikes who have taken their scout move (And which can always deploy even if escelation is in place) you can plop ten terminators onto a flank with no need to roll scatter dice, backed up by the bikes, plus whatever other forces you happen to spend that left over 650 points on. I can see this being potentially devestating to a flank, with eight assault cannon shots, which can either be focused onto one unit, or divided.

Plus, each of those 10 man terminator squads can can be separated into two scoring units that can act independently.

I'm not sure about anyone else here, but the thought of ten terminators teleporting right infront of one of the flanks of my eldar list is daunting. Especially when I have to divide my fire between two units (not to mention the bikes) to cull them down.

People think DA are getting gimped. I for one disagree and will reserve my judgement untill after I've seen the new codex and played against the local DA player once he gets his list started.

But looking at the rumors, I'm fairly certain that DA will be a force to be reckoned with. Not to mention the versatility that the list will have built into it. Just having the ravenwing attack squadrons looks to be huge. One fast attack choice that breaks into THREE different scoring units, yes please.

That's my opinion anyway.

Take it easy everyone.

-RT-

But according to rumors, terminator squads can only have one assault cannon. So if you can split them into two units, then that's one five man squad with a cannon and one with no heavy gun.

Not sure if anyone else is seeing it, but I love the Razorback nerf. So if i take a razorback, especially since I can't have stubborn, I want to put 6 people in it for moral reasons. Well now I can't. Also, my old strategy was take a 6 man squad with a plasma gun and plasma cannon while keeping the lascannon on the razorback, which worked well and didn't use the normal las/plas min max.

To be honest the 2 scoring units for one troop choice is nice. DA will benefit in objective based missions. The Raven Wing I can see as being borderline broken at this point. For one slot I can get 2 units of 3 bikes, each one packing a melta gun and one with a power fist, and a tornado is wrong, especially when you consider the scout USR with them. First turn charge anyone? I may have a use for all those bikes I bought pre 4th to redo my White Scars that are now collecting dust.

Darkness, bikes would have to be good in the first place for this to make them broken. I think this may make them useful, which would be cool.

If you believe Brimstone, which I do, then the terminator squads are not available in squads of 10 which you can then break into combat squads, they are only available in squads of 5. 

As far as the Ravenwing squadrons go, they are available in squadrons of 5 or of 6, and if you take the squadron of 6 you make divide the squad into combat squadrons of 3 (giving you two special weapons and a single veteran sergeant to divide).  If you have a squadron of 6 bikes, you may also take a Tornado (and really, who wouldn't) and an attack bike as separate units which all use the FOC slot of the one RW squadron.

I suspect that Ravenwing will become quite popular, although I expect the points costs for them to go up significantly.  By my math, it's currently roughly 400 points for a squadron of 6 bikes, a Tornado, and an attack bike with a multimelta.  Simultaneously, I expect that people will not be playing Deathwing so often, but will be taking single squads of DW and using them on a first turn deep strike (since half of one, rounded up, is one) onto a teleport homer provided by a RW bike or attack bike.  Putting that on the table, supported by some of the other cookies that DA will have will likely pose a new challenge to people, along the challenge posed by the mechanized skimmer force (tau/eldar) or podding marines.  Likely not as difficult to face, but still a tough thing to deal with.

nobody has read the codexes soi you cant say for sure what the disadvantages are yet so just hold on to your pants and chill

DA are starting so sound quite interesting. I am looking forward to the codex...couldn't say the same about the Templars one...hehe. It sucks...

Capt K

All of those bike units splitting into scoring units sounds nice, but if the points are to high, then you might just end up with the same number of scoring units as any other marine army with 6-man lascannon squads.

It sounds like 6 bikes + Attack Bike + Tornado = about 400pts for 4 scoring units.

Four 6-man Lascannon squads = 420pts for 4 scoring units.

The second set of scoring units have much more lasting power than the first set of scoring units do for pretty much the same amount of points.

This is true, however the four lascannon squads have no mobility at all (unless they choose not to fire the lascannons), making them very ineffective in contesting table quarters or grabbing objectives.

It seems to me that the Dark Angel release is just an excuse to balance the Space Marine Codex...

Greets
Schepp himself

Yeah, but if it doesn't retroactively effect the space marine codex, all it will do is make the DA suck compared to vanilla marines. Nobody will play DA, or they'll use the basic marine rules for their DA. Nerfing one army does not make a different over-powered army more balanced, just the opposite really.

Well, chalk me up for playing the new codex. If I find it totally unplayable I might eventually ditch it, but so far I like what I see, and see no reason why I would give it up. I like what they are doing, and if the Space Marine codex eventually goes to this form of a system it would be great, but it won't kill me to play DA this way in the meantime.