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I hope it DOESNT apply to SM codex....it mean I just have to go back to playing sisters...

Perhaps the heavy weapon limit will be balanced out by cheaper Terminators. I think it's pretty obvious that no one takes plain Termie squads, and almost no one takes Assault Termies. They're only useful because they have Assault Cannons, and that's a problem. The Assault Cannon shouldn't be that good and Terminators shouldn't be that expensive. Now, I think it's silly to just limit the number of ACs - it doesn't address the consistency issues with the gun - but something needed to be done. They've done something, however misguided it may be, and they'll hopefully make sure that Termies are still worth taking.

What sucks about the whole issue is that the Dark Angels have consistently had some of the best fluff, but the crappiest rules.  I know several DA players that suffered through two editions in the hope that finally they would have an army that lives up to its reputation.  The new rumours shake things up quite a bit, but the "advantages" just don't compensate for a few raw strengths that vanilla marines have.  If GW wants to nerf the marines they shouldn't take it out on the Dark Angels.  Drop pods are undercosted for what they do, then in that case the changes should apply to all of the chapters at once, not just Dark Angels.  If the Dark Angels have to take 10 man squads then they should get cheaper heavy weapons to compensate for the inability to take las/plas.  Like Orks, Dark Angels have put up with too much crap to get dealt another bad hand.  Maybe new news is going to break, but the rules might doom the Dark Angels to a long and crappy haul.  They should change their name from "the unforgiven" to "the S#@t upon."

Well, the minis in the pic look nice.

I have to keep hope they've instituted some of these rule changes b/c it makes them more enjoyable to play. The 5/10 strong squads I don't have an issue with. Somewhere along the way, I missed the part that the Ultramarines were the strictest followers and they don't even have to do this.

Strange that drop pods would go up in points (I've also heard Rhinos dropping in points), but not for all other Marines. The other Marines with multiple special weapons, multiple assault cannons, counterattack (Wolves) get more benefit from the pod than the DA's. Inquiring minds want more details and reasoning.

The gimping of deathwing to be 5 man squads with one heavy weapon will make it so you never see terminators in the DA army. Ever. Ever ever. Only an idiot would field them, or someone seriously after fluff.

Instead, I'll take 3 x 5 tornado speeders for 1200 pts, a master on speeder, and whatever else I can fit in. Herro SkimHammer!

edit: oh. my. god. One tornado per speeder squad? Hello! Anyone want to buy a Ravenwing army?

Depends on the speeders: are they the old metal ones or the new plastic ones?

Thanks for pointing that out Longshot. I missed that bit on the Speeders. Man, it seems like some things they think are broken in the Space Marine codex, they are applying in the Dark Angels codex. If they don't retrofit this into the Marine codex, no one will play the Dark Angels. There's simply not enough to entice a person to play that codex. Didn't the same thing happen with the Templar Codex? Put out some neat new models, but quirky and useless rules equated in more vanilla lists.

GW secretly wants us to play vanilla. This way, they can justify why they don't want to put the resources into the BA's and SW codexes later on.

that makes sence. or maybe they just dont have any idea what they are doing anymore, Bring back Andy chambers

They're the new plastic ones

Maybe an all bike army will be viable. like:

3 x 1 speeders in the FA slots

bunches of bikes and singleton speeders in the troop slots:

2 x 3 bikes with 1 meltagun each, one tornado speeder (should be around 330 pts per squad)

I just am seriously hoping that Brimstone got drunk and made all this up.

This must be why GW shut down their forums, because they knew people would be sooo mad.

They got enough people crying at them already.

I think it's interesting that they've found the one Assault Cannon fix that no one is going to like. Those that really liked the Assault Cannon for its cost-effectiveness are going to be unhappy regardless, but now those who simply liked the idea of a squad with that much firepower are going to be unhappy. Players who simply thought that the gun itself was too much, regardless of cost, aren't going to be any happier. Players whose problem was unfluffy relative to things like the Lascannon and Starcannon aren't any happier either. They only manage to make the people who thought that the AC was too strong for its cost happier, and, even so, most of the people that take lots of ACs didn't play Deathwing.

I'll assume that they're doing it to try to redress the rampant abuse of how they want their game played (ie... removing the cheese).


They left enough loopholes in their various rules to allow people to do it every now and then... but when they find everyone abusing it, I'm sure they decided to MAKE it so that people don't abuse it.

They're changing the rules. Happens in any competitive endeavor where the rulesmakers don't like the direction something is going. I just hope they get around to updating the older codex that allowed the abuse in the first place.

Posted By Samwise158 on 12/08/2006 11:13 PM
I know several DA players that suffered through two editions in the hope that finally they would have an army that lives up to its reputation. 

They want homosexualtiy written into the rules?!

You hush, you.

 

They're crossdressers, not homosexual.  There's a difference.

Someone please tell me the blue Marine in the middle there wasn't one of their new Librarians. I can see from here that it looks like ass. Please please please let that axe arm be a separete piece.

And so many dresses! Argh! We get it already their gay! Seriously though those plastic robes don't really look to good. To open and flappy and just to bleh. The hoods look great and the torso section passable but the legs part just seem off. Not to mention the fact that they are clearly pushing that all DAs wear the dress but only model what appears to be 2 types of robe legs is kinda pathetic.

I am changing my stance from Cautious Optimism to Near Total Write-off. Maybe if I sacrifice enough kittens to the spirit of Lord Haines the Character models and some of the new Librarians with be decent.

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/10/2006 7:38 PM

You hush, you.

 

They're crossdressers, not homosexual.  There's a difference.

Ki would know...

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/10/2006 7:15 PM
I'll assume that they're doing it to try to redress the rampant abuse of how they want their game played (ie... removing the cheese).


They left enough loopholes in their various rules to allow people to do it every now and then... but when they find everyone abusing it, I'm sure they decided to MAKE it so that people don't abuse it.

They're changing the rules. Happens in any competitive endeavor where the rulesmakers don't like the direction something is going. I just hope they get around to updating the older codex that allowed the abuse in the first place.

Yeah thats the problem. if deathwing didnt have the luxury of using 2 HW in termie squads for the last 2 editions, then it wouldnt be bad at all.

Without retroactivly going back to the SM dex, it feels like a solid nerf for the DEW who use it to remain competitive.

As I have said before and will say again, assault cannons are cheesy in the hands of most marines, but in DW its an equalizer for the poor amount of model count we get.

Posted By Hellfury on 12/10/2006 10:01 PM

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/10/2006 7:38 PM

You hush, you.

 

They're crossdressers, not homosexual.  There's a difference.

Ki would know...

The sad fact is that the Astartes have no choice but to be that way.  The average Space Marine is just too powerful, too potent for even the most superlative human female to satisfy.  Her kegels would snap like old rubber bands, as my dad used to say. 

A Sister of Battle could, perhaps, but she would be as bow-legged as a Morely sculpt for a month, not to mention she would be knocked up with a baby ogryn-sized mass of fecundity writhing in her nether viscera, eager to burst free and start kicking holes in tanks and beating things to death with large blunt objects.

And I haven't even mentioned the whole psychological aspect of it, I can't imagine the trauma that goes with the conversion process.  Drugs and conditioning can only go so far. A ordinary human cannot fathom the solitude that goes along with being one of the Angels of Death.  Sure, he is lauded as a hero after he kills the aliens that were going to destroy your pitiful world, and you scatter space rose petals at his feet in the victory parade, but what about after?  In that small, dark place in the pit of his psyche he knows that he is seen as a monster, a barely understood tool that is tolerated only when necessary.

Luckily, his Battle Brothers are there to help him, and he cleaves to them when his will is flagging, as they do to him.  

Still slaughtering the printed english language, I see.

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/11/2006 2:15 AM
Still slaughtering the printed english language, I see. 

Still like the Harlequins, arriving without warning after having disappeared for some time, I see.

Get off Jester's leg! That's my spot!

Whore-off! WHORE-OFF! Whore-off at high noon! *Spreads the word*

Back on topic, that librarian is hideous. The lower half reminds me of that ugly cheerleading Ultramarine.

Posted By bigchris1313 on 12/11/2006 4:27 PM

Posted By KiMonarrez on 12/11/2006 2:15 AM
Still slaughtering the printed english language, I see. 

Still like the Harlequins, arriving without warning after having disappeared for some time, I see.

Bite me.  I was getting a new job (again), moving (again), and returning to my roots as a radiation sponge (again).

Well atleast you eventually made your way back to this desolate place.

Here's a closeup of the Devs courtesy of Warseer's Tom:

Warseer's t-tauri confirmed that the picture shows "the plastic devastators made up with Dark Angels sprues".

Warseer's The Judge says that the new plastic Devastator sprues contain eight heavy weapons, including two heavy bolters, two missile launchers, two lascannons, one plasma cannon and one multi-melta.

Nice.

The plastic heavy weaponry seem to be exactly like the metal devestator parts. I can't see a difference from the metal bits anyway. I especially like the way the heavy bolter looks, what little of it I can see from behind the Vet. Srg's Fist 'o Doom.

Thanks for pointing this out Elusive.

Take it easy.

-RT-

The visible differences are: a chunkier HB feed, the addition of a ML backpack (rumored to have a loading servo arm), the repositioned LC sight, and additional vents on the PC. But yeah, they're essentially the same which is fine by me. 

The HB guys helmet with the Deathwing grill is the bomb diggity.

They look like clunkier, chunkier less detailed versions of the current metal ones. And while they may be tricky to assemble, I much, much prefer the metal. As more and more excellent metals are replaced by substandard plastic sets, 40k becomes more and more low-detailed craptacular plastik kiddie toys designed to meet the demands of drooling munchikins instead of detailed sci-fi models that can appeal to a wide age range.

It's not even that they're plastic that bugs me, it's that it is so poorly done in plastic. Brian Nelson obviously had nothing to do with these and whoever the hell is doing the plastic sculpting for the vast majority of the lines that has come out of late needs to be shot, as they suck, suck, suck.

Nyarlathotep:

I respect your opinion, and agree with it to some extent in regards to many of the metal miniatures that I have seen produced recently in regards to the space marine line, but i have to say I don't see where you coming from with the plastics.

From what I can make out in the pictures, these plastic heavy weapon marines look to be quite well done as far as sculpts are concerned. Granted, they're probably not perfect, but I'll lay a buck to a bent dime that they're better and easier to assemble than the plastic/metal hybrid heavy weapons of the past. (I still have nightmares about assembling heavy bolters >_< )

Regarding the most recent plastic sculpt minis I've purchased, I've been exceedingly impressed by them. Specifically the new eldar plastics, including the wraithlord, and plastic dire avengers that I have just completed assembly on. The plastic sculpts were well done and flaw-free for the most part (I found one or two, but nothing a little TLC and proper modeling couldn't easily rectify) beyond that I have quite literally no complaints.

Further, the recent eldar metal sculpts have impressed me as well. I managed to get my hands on the limited edition bonesinger and have assembled/ begun to paint on it. It's possibly one of the best eldar sculpts I've ever had a chance to work with. Similarly the new howling banshees and the autarch mini's are also spot on IMO, not to mention the new striking scorpions.

Sure GW has produced some utter crap minis in the recent past, specifically most of the newer chaplain metal minis spring to mind, accept for the powerfist/crozius one w/ the ribcage chestpiece...that sculpt is the bomb diggity to use Jester's expression. That is IMO is what a chaplain should look like, advancing forwards, ready to tackle anything or anyone willing to come at him.

Anyway, just expressing a differing viewpoint with you Nyarlathotep. Not calling you out or anything, but respectfully disagreeing with your analysis of the recent GW sculpts that I have dealt with. If anything the sculpts have improved slightly over the last year. Sure, some still make me scratch my head while I wonder how the sculpt made it off the drawing pad, let alone through production. Thankfully, these kinds of sculpts are typically the exception, not the norm at present.

That's all I've got for now. Take it easy everyone.

-RT-