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 dreadblade wrote:
Bringing things back to 1st edition Rogue Trader, what are the chances that GW might reprint the Compendium? I already have Rogue Trader and the two Realm of Chaos reprints from Warhammer World, but the Compendium would be the icing on the cake.

Given that the person who scanned and restored those previous books is no longer working for GW, I think that the chances of a Compendium reprint are pretty remote. Reading between the lines, I suspect that the Rogue Trader and Realm of Chaos reprints were something of a passion project.

 Pariah Press wrote:
...the person who scanned and restored those previous books...

What's the story behind that?

I believe Louise of Rogue Hobbies on YT was involved as a labour of love. But she's no longer at GW.

 Hellebore wrote:
I believe Louise of Rogue Hobbies on YT was involved as a labour of love. But she's no longer at GW.

Given the interest (and the prices for originals), it seems like an exercise in printing your own money.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I believe Louise of Rogue Hobbies on YT was involved as a labour of love. But she's no longer at GW.

Given the interest (and the prices for originals), it seems like an exercise in printing your own money.

Thing is if it was a passion project it was likely done at her own time/cost or alongside other duties. So chances are when she moved on and no one stepped into that spot and if everyone else is already working hard there might just not be anyone to push for it. It's a huge shame as a LOT of classic GW stuff would be great to have in print-on-demand and even as digital copies. They've got a huge library of material and heck even some things they've done before fairly recently would be worth running again for new customers and those who missed out before.

 Overread wrote:
Thing is if it was a passion project it was likely done at her own time/cost or alongside other duties. So chances are when she moved on and no one stepped into that spot and if everyone else is already working hard there might just not be anyone to push for it. It's a huge shame as a LOT of classic GW stuff would be great to have in print-on-demand and even as digital copies. They've got a huge library of material and heck even some things they've done before fairly recently would be worth running again for new customers and those who missed out before.

Just selling .pdfs of White Dwarf back issues could make them serious money. No printing, just pay for the download.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Thing is if it was a passion project it was likely done at her own time/cost or alongside other duties. So chances are when she moved on and no one stepped into that spot and if everyone else is already working hard there might just not be anyone to push for it. It's a huge shame as a LOT of classic GW stuff would be great to have in print-on-demand and even as digital copies. They've got a huge library of material and heck even some things they've done before fairly recently would be worth running again for new customers and those who missed out before.

Just selling .pdfs of White Dwarf back issues could make them serious money. No printing, just pay for the download.

I'd easily pay for and download copies of:

Mordheim (everything)
Necromunda (the original, not the ridiculous slop GW put out recently)
Blood Bowl (ditto)
Dungeon Bowl (double ditto)
Epic Armageddon
Battlefleet Gothic

I mean...I have most of this stuff in one form or another. But I'd re-buy digital copies just to have them on-hand, on-demand. These are easily the best games GW has put out. IMHO.

If I were in charge of content for Warhammer+ I would be pushing for digital copies of every GW book and magazine back to the dawn of time, and access to PoD copies of same.

GW could probably make a fine amount of cash if they 3d scanned/meshed their old out of print miniatures to sell directly to enthusiasts who want to 3d print them, just another way they are missing out on cash.
I have thought that they could scan/sell White Dwarf pdf collections, just scan/sell a whole year at a time as a pdf.

^I cynically believe they might think easy access to their past products would compete with their current and future products, becaise it might pull a portion of players off their content churn and maybe question certain practices, like $50 hardbacks that go obsolete every couple years, or quicker.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I cynically believe they might think easy access to their past products would compete with their current and future products, because it might pull a portion of players off their content churn and maybe question certain practices, like $50 hardbacks that go obsolete every couple years, or quicker.

You aren't wrong. At all. GW has become a top-100 company over in the UK, IIRC, and frankly that speaks volumes about the actual usefulness of the UK's manufacturing base and economy.

That said, they don't give a single poop any more about anything but the bottom line, and profits for the shareholders. The days of the old guard writing rules and sculpting minis for a tabletop hobby are long gone. They might not have been perfect (gods know some of the rules weren't), but now it's all in the pursuit of the almighty pound.

I'd never lift a finger again to play any edition of WFB beyond 7th, and the only reason I still kind of like 40k is because they didn't completely destroy it with Age of Sigmar level BS, and my Eldar and Tyranid models are still cool as heck to push around a tabletop.

But...

Give me a good group of players, say, 8 or so, who love the hobby. Let's play a long-ish campaign/league of Necromunda, then, when that's done and we've had the "finals" and all sat around laughing and drinking, move on to the same thing in Necromunda, then rinse and repeat. In the meantime, us die-hards will have a side-campaign/league of Bloodbowl or Epic.

I've never had so much fun with a tabletop wargame as the days when that was a reality. Aos and 40k are the flagship games, but let's face it...they are shadows of what they used to be, designed for the modern short-attention-span group. At least IMO.

Ignore me. I'm just an old man, missing the past, shouting at clouds. To be fair, the clouds started it.

I'd like to see a reprint of 1st edition Battle Manual. Its the missing link that brings Rogue Trader rules much closer to 2nd edition rules, ie. the best of both worlds. Still allows all that RPG stuff and unlimited customization (ie make your own vehicles, units and whatnot), but already has something resembling "classic 40K" gameplay.

I got everything sorted on the digital document dept, but wouldnt mind paying for physical copies of all the RT era books. I think its only a matter of time until GW starts to sell their back catalogue. The cultural value of early editions of GW games will only increase in time as the brand (and its fanbase) grows. However, it wont be easy in terms of legalities, due to various licensing contracts etc they might have once had with all that content..

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I believe Louise of Rogue Hobbies on YT was involved as a labour of love. But she's no longer at GW.

Given the interest (and the prices for originals), it seems like an exercise in printing your own money.

Right, but the question is, “How much money?” I suspect that the market for RT-era reprints is tiny compared with the market for 10th edition material. It may not be worth anybody at GW’s time to make it happen.

 Pariah Press wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I believe Louise of Rogue Hobbies on YT was involved as a labour of love. But she's no longer at GW.

Given the interest (and the prices for originals), it seems like an exercise in printing your own money.

Right, but the question is, “How much money?” I suspect that the market for RT-era reprints is tiny compared with the market for 10th edition material. It may not be worth anybody at GW’s time to make it happen.

The market is way smaller of course, but I suspect still very profitable when you consider how big GW's market is.
I suspect its less a case of it being unprofitable; just a case if it not being profitable enough. Plus it honestly might just be one of those things that no one there in management appreciate as a market segment, but isn't opposed to it. So it just needs a staffer to champion it.

Personally I'd say GW should be putting all their old stuff in digital and as much as possible "print on demand". Why have assets that earn nothing when you've got them in storage.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I cynically believe they might think easy access to their past products would compete with their current and future products, becaise it might pull a portion of players off their content churn and maybe question certain practices, like $50 hardbacks that go obsolete every couple years, or quicker.

This has a firm foundation in fact. Back on Portent/Warseer, there were threads that centered on 2nd and there was a steady amount of pure animosity towards that edition, often spread by known GW staff.

What made it annoying was that they got things wrong. They talked about how bad the rules were and then used examples that were illegal.

So I think there is a cultural bias against older edition as they fear it will cut into their churn.

As to the economics of the thing, please. There is no formatting, no writing, no production of any kind. Just have an intern use the scanner and use the right naming convention for the files and then rake in the profit.

Seriously, offering a scanned WD for a dollar would easily pay a staffer's salary to do scans full time. Charge more for the books, and watch the dough accumulate. If you charge $10 for digital books, (which would be absurdly cheap, honestly) how many do you have to sell for your break-even point? Production costs are nil, just labor for a starting employee to run the scanner.

It's easy money, but GW has a habit of turning away from slam-dunk sales.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
As to the economics of the thing, please. There is no formatting, no writing, no production of any kind. Just have an intern use the scanner and use the right naming convention for the files and then rake in the profit.

They're a British company. They don't have interns.

As for the work involved, that really depends on the condition of the originals. Given the age of older WDs, there would likely be a reasonable amount of restoration required. For a professional looking end result, it's not as simple as 'scan document, make PDF'

It also depends what nature they are stored in - some might have original documents; others might be lost to time; corrupted files or formats so old they can't be easily re-used today.

Good reproductions of old media is an art and takes time in itself. Otherwise oyu can get things like reprints you see on amazon where they scan with an OCR and never check the results - resulting in loads of miss-spellings and quirks where the reader didn't quite read it perfectly.

Or where the words aren't in the standard dictionary

It is highly possible GW does not even have the originals anymore.

 Overread wrote:
It also depends what nature they are stored in - some might have original documents; others might be lost to time; corrupted files or formats so old they can't be easily re-used today.

Many of the older WDs and books predate computers for this sort of work. The originals were made from pieces of paper glued to a board.

 insaniak wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It also depends what nature they are stored in - some might have original documents; others might be lost to time; corrupted files or formats so old they can't be easily re-used today.

Many of the older WDs and books predate computers for this sort of work. The originals were made from pieces of paper glued to a board.

Yeah there's a good chance that the really old stuff is a case of having to scan copies - even then GW might have a copy that has worn the test of time poorly so such a project could even involve having to try and source better condition copies.

GW could offer a "magazine contest" to any fans, like... give them really good copies of the old magazines for the digital archiving, and you get a new army box or something.

 Overread wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It also depends what nature they are stored in - some might have original documents; others might be lost to time; corrupted files or formats so old they can't be easily re-used today.

Many of the older WDs and books predate computers for this sort of work. The originals were made from pieces of paper glued to a board.

Yeah there's a good chance that the really old stuff is a case of having to scan copies - even then GW might have a copy that has worn the test of time poorly so such a project could even involve having to try and source better condition copies.

Bah. Not an issue. As one person, I could provide GW with near pristine copies of every page of every book I've mentioned. I have an uncut (from a standpoint of the cut-out pages) copy of the orange book of 3rd edition WFB, the original Mordheim book and multiple Town Cryer mags, the original Necromunda books, the original boxed set of Bloodbowl, and a bunch of other publications. I'm ONE PERSON. They could source anything they wanted with a simple "Hey everyone, we're looking for" post.

That's just my collection. If I was willing to pony up, I could literally buy everything on eBay. I just sold a full boxed set of BFG, less the ships, and also a bunch of books for it on that very marketplace. I'm getting ready to list a couple dozen books and boxed sets (Dark Millennium, Warhammer Magic/Battle Magic, others).

The point is, literally everything GW has ever published is out there in some format, whether it's physical and you're paying a premium for it, or it's digital and you're downloading it illegally for free. Or something in between.

For the ferocity they show with lawsuits and hammering the little guy, you would think they'd recognize the nostalgia market for games and just keep digital copies available for ready sale when it comes to these documents. The amount of effort would be negligible, and the profits would be small...but they would be profits.

GW is a multi-million pound global company. They can invest in an ebay account to find back issues, and a scanner with attendant intern to turn the pages.

But if GW release old White Dwarf issues, people might wake up to how poor more modern runs are.

Here's a brief article where she discusses some of the work that went into it.

It's not excessive, but it's also not quick.

https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-40k/rogue-trader-rulebook-reprint-louise-sugden

 Lord Damocles wrote:
GW is a multi-million pound global company. They can invest in an ebay account to find back issues, and a scanner with attendant intern to turn the pages.

But if GW release old White Dwarf issues, people might wake up to how poor more modern runs are.

Exactly. The return on investment would be immense and immediate. The "production line" is literally someone with a decent flat-bed scanner.

I also find it highly unlikely that one of the most lawsuit-happy companies on the planet would destroy (through carelessness or deliberately) crucial pieces of evidence to prove copyright and/or trademark violations.

The people on this thread alone would probably buy enough scans to pay an entire year's worth of wages. The answer is that GW isn't really that keen on comparisons with what was before. It's culture is the present, with just enough nostalgia bait to pull along the incurable addicts.

Which I would be, if they'd sell old scans.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The "production line" is literally someone with a decent flat-bed scanner.

A 'decent flatbed scanner' does not get you a publication-quality product.

I also find it highly unlikely that one of the most lawsuit-happy companies on the planet would destroy (through carelessness or deliberately) crucial pieces of evidence to prove copyright and/or trademark violations.

I mean, this is a company that in the middle of its last big lawsuit realised that it didn't actually own the copyright on a portion of their art catalogue and tried to get artists to retroactively sign over rights for work they had done decades ago...

That's the same lawsuit in which they tried to claim ownership of chevrons and roman numerals and insisted that their designers drew inspiration only from their own imaginations with no outside influences. Being 'lawsuit-happy' doesn't inherently make them good at it.


I would suspect that they would have published copies of everything they have produced in their vaults. Whether or not they have the original proofs is another matter entirely... Preserving for potential legal claims aside, (for which, the published version would probably be sufficient anyway), a lot of that stuff pre-digital publishing just doesn't store well.


Digitising a magazine or book for publication is not just a case of plopping it on a scanner and calling the job a good-un. As was explained in the linked article about the Rogue Trader restoration, there is a lot of post-processing that is required to get the scan into publication-ready quality.

Esp if you want accurate scanning - I noted earlier that OCR scanning for books just with text can result in huge problems when the computer doens't read the text right or when it has words which are non-standard-english appear and suddenly technical terms get garbled because its trying to guess.

My dad has one book which is a reprint of a technical book on plants and almost all the latin is wrong; most likely because of an issue like that and then no one reviewing it properly.




Also lets not forget even digital data can be lost. Harddrives fail; files get corrupted and even backup systems can fail; often only be detected when they are then needed. Not to mention that its very easy with both systems to lose things.

Given decades; multiple staff; shifting priorities its very possible that even an organised firm can have information that gets filed in different ways for different reasons - all justifiable and logical at the time - but then 20 years later no one remembers and suddenly a bunch of things are "lost" somewhere.








That said I still sit on the side that agrees that a firm of GW's size and customer base can still turn a profit and overcome these problems. They are not insurmountable and GW has proven that many times before by doing reprints. The Inferno reprints were utterly awesome, faithful and well done. The White Dwarf issues that were added to Warhammer+ were also well done; if annoyingly so because Gw had the old game data scrubbed from them.

Not sure I’m fussed for archival White Dwarf, but I’d love to see the old Ork books back in print, even if it means a trip to Warhammer World.

As has been pointed out, whilst not as simple as “just go and scan an existing copy”, surely it’s a fairly cost effective measure? According to the article, Rogue Trader took Louise about two weeks to get all the scanning done, then considerably longer to smarten it all up and that.

But compared to writing and page setting a whole new volume, I’d imagine it compares favourably as an investment of time and effort.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
GW is a multi-million pound global company. They can invest in an ebay account to find back issues, and a scanner with attendant intern to turn the pages.

But if GW release old White Dwarf issues, people might wake up to how poor more modern runs are.

Exactly. The return on investment would be immense and immediate. The "production line" is literally someone with a decent flat-bed scanner.

I also find it highly unlikely that one of the most lawsuit-happy companies on the planet would destroy (through carelessness or deliberately) crucial pieces of evidence to prove copyright and/or trademark violations.

The people on this thread alone would probably buy enough scans to pay an entire year's worth of wages. The answer is that GW isn't really that keen on comparisons with what was before. It's culture is the present, with just enough nostalgia bait to pull along the incurable addicts.

Which I would be, if they'd sell old scans.

I don't know how much it would actually sell. When I found my old White Dwarf magazines from 1996-2005, I dropped them off at a game shop with a very large player base as their bi-weekly tournaments got 40 people and the shop had a good 25 tables for Warhammer. After a year, 6 copies were taken from the bos. The shop tossed them all in the recycling bin. That was during the phase where White Dwarf became the weekly magazine that was essentially the Warhammer Community page. Would it sell now? Maybe some of the old issues would sell. Not sure how well but it most certainly would not be like printing money.

There's also local stores where they'd have fought over the best copies.

Local scenes vary a LOT - I've seen boxed sets from GW that sold out in minutes online sitting on shelves in local stores months later; and that's when sold at a fair price.