Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 zend wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it

It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.

So here's the solution: Wait a week for the Do not advocate for piracy on this website, thank you actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.

First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.

You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.

Do not advocate for piracy on this website, thank you I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.

Necromunda needed a new edition, and I'm not opposed to some radical changes. Old rules had some weapons so good that you were crazy not to take them. I used to kit my gangers with chains or axes to be different, but we all knew swords or anything with a parry were king. Lasguns were cheap, reliable, and had a -1 armor save. Fantastic deal, compared to the other basic weapons. Some skills were awful. Others too good, etc.

Beyond rules tweaks, the fundamental nature of the I Go, You Go system feels clunky and old compared to modern games like Infinity. So, a change isn't necessarily a bad thing. What galls me are some of the weird choices they seem to have made. I understand that the only two gangs with rules at release are Goliath and Escher. Who made that choice? Why?

Others have noted the grasping way GW is releasing the rules piecemeal. I don't care for it either. Necromunda isn't Necromunda without a robust campaign system. I'm honestly not sure it'll have that from early reviews, because those rules aren't even in the box. I was going to say I can't believe GW is fumbling the re-release of such a classic game, but after the way they butchered their new version of Man o' War some years back, I actually can.

 zend wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 zend wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it

It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.

So here's the solution: Wait a week for the main rulebook to be distributed via scans or the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.

First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.

You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.

Also I'm telling you to pirate the main rulebook, not sure how that wasn't clear when I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.

And piracy is frowned on here on Dakkadakka. If you are going to then do it but don’t advertise here.

 zend wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 zend wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it

It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.

So here's the solution: Wait a week for the main rulebook to be distributed via scans or the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.

First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.

You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.

Also I'm telling you to pirate the main rulebook, not sure how that wasn't clear when I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.

So the decision to not include the campaign rules in the mainbook is not deplorable cause you can pirate them?

Cant say I understand you logic here


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jmw23 wrote:
Necromunda needed a new edition, and I'm not opposed to some radical changes. Old rules had some weapons so good that you were crazy not to take them. I used to kit my gangers with chains or axes to be different, but we all knew swords or anything with a parry were king. Lasguns were cheap, reliable, and had a -1 armor save. Fantastic deal, compared to the other basic weapons. Some skills were awful. Others too good, etc.

Beyond rules tweaks, the fundamental nature of the I Go, You Go system feels clunky and old compared to modern games like Infinity. So, a change isn't necessarily a bad thing. What galls me are some of the weird choices they seem to have made. I understand that the only two gangs with rules at release are Goliath and Escher. Who made that choice? Why?

Others have noted the grasping way GW is releasing the rules piecemeal. I don't care for it either. Necromunda isn't Necromunda without a robust campaign system. I'm honestly not sure it'll have that from early reviews, because those rules aren't even in the box. I was going to say I can't believe GW is fumbling the re-release of such a classic game, but after the way they butchered their new version of Man o' War some years back, I actually can.

Agree with you that having only two gangs at release seems like a huge blunder on GW part.

The new kit is a new game for fresh bewb juves who have never played before.

Honestly, if your an already experienced player, like most of us, the next supplement is for you. Remember when I was talking before when Armageddon came out? THOSE are the sets I was alluding to.

If you have the old gangers, they are going to square you away with rules, stats, etc. Online, the gang sheets are already available, they said they are going to include the gangs stats and info later on.

Hope to see Bonnie Anderson make a new appearance. I missed her the first time around.

Hope to see old Kal Jerico, as well as the rest of the old standards for special characters. The Redeemer is another one that comes to mind.

They are going to be including snack cards, like they have in Blood Bowl.

If you are a brand new player, it is a good time to get into Necromunda, but make sure you are aware that it is not a board game, the basic set is a training wheels set. to get you used to the basic and advanced rules without a gak load of terrain to worry about, when you already have 2 gangs and a sewer fight to worry about.

THOSE gangs in the boxed set are training wheels. They have a figure, they get a named figure stat card, and you ready to go. As to the rest of us, you have your old stuff, your all set. They will be selling a rulebook stand alone, as well, you will hear more about that later next month.

As for additional material, We are all good. there's more then you can shake a stick at online. One guy said Pirate it- I say you don't have to, there is plenty of added material out there that you will survive to make it to gang leader.

Please make sure you don't advocate for piracy on dakka, it has cropped up a few times in this thread. Further instances of this will lead to a warning. Thank you.

 Grot 6 wrote:
The new kit is a new game for fresh bewb juves who have never played before.

Honestly, if your an already experienced player, like most of us, the next supplement is for you. Remember when I was talking before when Armageddon came out? THOSE are the sets I was alluding to.

If you have the old gangers, they are going to square you away with rules, stats, etc. Online, the gang sheets are already available, they said they are going to include the gangs stats and info later on.

Hope to see Bonnie Anderson make a new appearance. I missed her the first time around.

Hope to see old Kal Jerico, as well as the rest of the old standards for special characters. The Redeemer is another one that comes to mind.

They are going to be including snack cards, like they have in Blood Bowl.

If you are a brand new player, it is a good time to get into Necromunda, but make sure you are aware that it is not a board game, the basic set is a training wheels set. to get you used to the basic and advanced rules without a gak load of terrain to worry about, when you already have 2 gangs and a sewer fight to worry about.

THOSE gangs in the boxed set are training wheels. They have a figure, they get a named figure stat card, and you ready to go. As to the rest of us, you have your old stuff, your all set. They will be selling a rulebook stand alone, as well, you will hear more about that later next month.

As for additional material, We are all good. there's more then you can shake a stick at online. One guy said Pirate it- I say you don't have to, there is plenty of added material out there that you will survive to make it to gang leader.

Where did you hear that?

Here, hold this for me.

https://necromunda.com/start-playing/

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necromunda-Gang-War-1-2017-eng

And once again, I'm the guy saying you don't have to pirate it. there is so much material out there that you will have more then enough that you don't have to.

a couple of good old school standards-

Grot Wars. Grot Wars 2 The Orks strike Back, Grot Wars 3 Return of the Arbites.

Zombie Incursion.

Bug hunt.

Mutiny for the Bounty.

????

The link you gave clearly state that you need the rulebook in the boxed set to use gang war, and don't mention anything about theses rules being available separately

 streetsamurai wrote:
????

The link you gave clearly state that you need the rulebook in the boxed set to use gang war, and don't mention anything about theses rules being available separately

If you are talking about the main rulebook by itself, you have to wait. The info about that rule book by itself came from a discussion, you get to hear about it later through official channels.

I can't wait (Apart from Warhammer fantasy etc, Necromunda is one of the games that got me hooked in wargaming tbh, though was so long ago). I bought Underhive and Gangwar for nostalgia.

I think the MWG crew showed exactly what I expected from Underhive. It's for new players and is just an 'add-in', learn some basic rules. GW tried to translate a 3d game to 2d and it ended up looking pretty bland (they can't balance a 3d game for 2d play effectively).

The test is gang war. If it has whacked game play and a crap leveling system and cant really spend money, upgrade weaps, buy gangers between games etc etc. Then I wont buy anymore (unless the models look good of course). That is what I am hoping for a great skirmish/campaign leveler game.

That set they played with was straight out of the box level of play- You can count on the game being even half of what they showed, it will play for a good time.

The two gangs in that main set are for you to go on ahead and get stuck in with. Us old farts will remember Overwatch. THAT becomes problematic if you have most of your gang waiting in the rafters waiting, while the other guy is maneuvering around and taking up position as they overload a ganger one by one.

The two guys playing in those MWG videos were on par from what I expect for a new game fresh out of the box. Proof of the pudding will be in the adds of what will be allowed for the add on legacy gangs, and hired guns.

This game is great for skirmish level. Its best when you start out with a up and coming gang with hand to hand, and some medium range weapons. The ganger with the sniper rifle was usually the one to have it explode on him when he got a shot off, first round, or a guy falls off the third level when a grenade goes off when he misthrows it.

My idea load outs, a couple for guys with shotguns, a couple with a pistol/ stub gun, and hand to hand weapons like a axe or a sword, and a heavy who can be a mobile fire platform with a heavy stubber.

Golaiths and Eschers are the best extremes of hand to hand. Goliaths are Tanks, the Eschers are Scrappers.

I'll be picking up a couple of the boxes for laughs. I know that these parts are going to come in handy with mixing and matching.

 Rolsheen wrote:
As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules

To be fair they do mention that the "review" only applies to the box set and not the Gang War expansion, so they're playing it straight out of the box and talking strictly about the 2D version that no one asked for, instead of the 3D game that almost literally everyone is going to be playing instead. But, as you can see in this thread, it's already influenced some people to the point where they're canceling pre-orders and having second thoughts about Necromunda altogether, regardless of what changes Gang War brings with it.

This kinda thing is why GW used to send entities like MWG C&D orders and threats before, instead of pre-release copies of the games to unbox and show off. I don't want GW to go back to its "old ways" and I feel like stuff like this is gonna put them off. Not that I want MWG or any other group to shill for them, I want an honest review of the game, but if people aren't gonna wait and see the whole picture and base their entire opinion on some salty guy on a YouTube channel who even admitted to rolling poorly, making mistakes or not playing the faction the "right" way, then I can see GW deciding it wasn't worth it all along and that working with the community is going to hurt their sales more than it helps.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules

To be fair they do mention that the "review" only applies to the box set and not the Gang War expansion, so they're playing it straight out of the box and talking strictly about the 2D version that no one asked for, instead of the 3D game that almost literally everyone is going to be playing instead. But, as you can see in this thread, it's already influenced some people to the point where they're canceling pre-orders and having second thoughts about Necromunda altogether, regardless of what changes Gang War brings with it.

This kinda thing is why GW used to send entities like MWG C&D orders and threats before, instead of pre-release copies of the games to unbox and show off. I don't want GW to go back to its "old ways" and I feel like stuff like this is gonna put them off. Not that I want MWG or any other group to shill for them, I want an honest review of the game, but if people aren't gonna wait and see the whole picture and base their entire opinion on some salty guy on a YouTube channel who even admitted to rolling poorly, making mistakes or not playing the faction the "right" way, then I can see GW deciding it wasn't worth it all along and that working with the community is going to hurt their sales more than it helps.

I don't think GW has the option to going back to being closed off.

Honestly, I think the various reviews from MWG have prompted me to buy more GW products than I wanted to (or my wife wanted me to). As I stated before I think their assessment is fair (but obviously harsher than norm because someone was salty after losing so much). Even with the few mistakes and some tactical flaws you can see the 2d game for these 2 gangs is gunna be meh. Would it put me off buying? No, because I know Gangwar is what I am waiting for. Will it put new players off maybe. Have to wait to see the Gangwar reviews that various companies do to see how many it draws in (or not).

I think honest reviews gives more to the community than being a sycophant because they give you stuff to review. May not agree with the content but it does give gameplay for people to assess (don't have to heed the opinions) and draw their own conclusions. Companies/Channels like MWG, Tabletop Tactics etc do more for marketing around my known groups than GW does itself tbh. So I think they are a plus and I hope continue to be so.

As my general rule o thumb I don't take thing from MWG seriously, or as my "buy beware". Although it's nice to have different opinions.

But It's mainly GW's fault for not making their own proper Battle Report video , I heard the one from their Twitch stream was pretty bad, and it also locked behind a paywall. The BR from WD was okay. All they had to do is make a series of speed up/quick summary of a BR in a campaig on their main youtube channel, added some special effect, overlay and commentary. They have a BR for DW:Overkill before, but it's too long and lack a proper commentary.

GW as a whole is still pretty outdated and try to keep up with the modern trend, they seem to heavily underestimate the "youtube" department for publicity. Many of the video on their youtube only publish after their FB one. Also the channel have comment disabled because.......the one who run it is sensitive to negative comment? or they don't want to be annoyed by nortifications(lol?!)

Are we really gaking on this game because of one MWG video?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are we really gaking on this game because of one MWG video?

Give the game a chance.
For a judgement, one needs to look into the 3D expansion and the campaign system.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Give the game a chance.
For a judgement, one needs to look into the 3D expansion and the campaign system.

Umm no.

Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.

 MangoMadness wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Give the game a chance.
For a judgement, one needs to look into the 3D expansion and the campaign system.

Umm no.

Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.

From what I've seen of the preview copy GW had out at their local store and games I've watched online, I'm willing to say it's looking good. You do have the rules for building a custom gang in the core book. You can also very easily play pick up games where you agree on a points limit and build a gang to play against a friend like you would in 40k/aos.

If you want to play a campaign, you will need the gang war book. I think the 2D necromunda as a pick up game stands up pretty well and I'm looking foreword to play it with my friends.

 MangoMadness wrote:
Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.

Why? Do we judge this or this as standalone items?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.

Why? Do we judge this or this as standalone items?

Yes. If they were gak, people starting in the hobby wouldn't continue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why? Do we judge this or this as standalone items?

DI do come with hardback 280 -page book tho

Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.

Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.

I’m new to the game - I played it a little back in the 90s but never bought into it, 40k was taking all my monies back then. I’ve always wanted to get into it as I love the fluff and setting, so I’ve bought in big - ordered the boxed set and Gang War book and a heap of Sector Mechanicus terrain for when I make the upgrade to 3D playing. Quick question, as I’m thinking of making some boards, what is a standard game’s play area size? 3x3 or is 4x4 better?

Necro was usually 4x4, though smaller could work. Depends on charge distances and height really.

OP should be fully updated now.

Caliginous wrote:
I’m new to the game - I played it a little back in the 90s but never bought into it, 40k was taking all my monies back then. I’ve always wanted to get into it as I love the fluff and setting, so I’ve bought in big - ordered the boxed set and Gang War book and a heap of Sector Mechanicus terrain for when I make the upgrade to 3D playing. Quick question, as I’m thinking of making some boards, what is a standard game’s play area size? 3x3 or is 4x4 better?

4x4 is what the example table set up in the gang war book is (and 4x4 was always the table size in the original. That's the size you're going to want really.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.

Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.

I always assumed that that diagram had an exaggerated vertical scale, so it fitted onto a page better.

Why not assume the lower figure, and then if it turns out it's greater than that, you can add extra unexplored areas. "Only" 75 square miles should be enough for a campaign, I would think?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.

Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.

I always assumed that that diagram had an exaggerated vertical scale, so it fitted onto a page better.

Why not assume the lower figure, and then if it turns out it's greater than that, you can add extra unexplored areas. "Only" 75 square miles should be enough for a campaign, I would think?

There is also continuous urban ruins beneath the Ash wastes which cover the entire surface of the planet, so if the area is below the Ash wastes, you could frankly make it as big as you like. This could also explain the differences- the Hive is 5-6 miles wide where it enters the Ash wastes, but 30 miles wide at bedrock or something.

I just went searching to see if the description of hive primus has measurements (don't think it does) but spotted that they talk about Brat Gangs and them having jetbikes in the description of hive Trazior. Those are going to be fun when they get to them