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Headlss wrote: I am running a list very similar to yours. At 1500 points I have an extra raider, an extra Talos, enough troops and hq to turn the Kabal into a batalion and a unit of 9 jet bikes.
Not what you are thinking about but I find 3 Talos are enough heavy hitters.
Oh yeah they hit hard, but I feel that until I get to the target, some heavy ranged stuff could help me. Right now I just have the Talos Haywires, two Blasters and one Disintegrator cannon. I could use more ranged stuff to deal with heavies.
Which ones are more fun to play? I feel like Ravagers are stronger, but to make them work, they seem to need to be standing there shooting with an Archon nearby... It doesn't look fun to me, and I'm not competitive enough to need that. Is the difference that significative?
I would go for the jetfighters. They have better range, comparable damage output, and are tougher to kill. Also better for movement blocking. IMO they look better too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 17:55:10
Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool...
On paper disintegrators are powerful, so a ravager with 3 of them looks good. Putting three such units near a model that lets them re-roll wound rolls of 1 is very good.
It however presents a few defensive problems, if anything gets close to any of your ravagers- it is close to all of them since they are likely within 6" of the writ archon.
You have to keep the archon on foot to get the benefit, so they are limited to moving near the archon to maintain the benefit.
I am in no way trying to say ravagers are bad, they are very good. However there are reasons jetfighters can be more useful.
Jetfighters can't be assaulted by units that do not have fly- ravagers can.
Jetfigher can move very quickly, you can fly across the table and get Line of SIght on units the ravagers may not be able to.
Jetfighter has supersonic. This is an arguable benefit, because its also generally easier to see.
The jetfighter has 1 less disintegrator, but the missiles and splinter weapons can potentially do more damage to certain targets than a third disintegrator.
The VoidRaven Bomber is beautiful for removing those hard to kill squads with 3+ Invuls etc. Enough firepower after the one time bomb is dropped to make it worth it.
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them.
They are costly, they are in the Index. 11ppm. Scourges are a cheaper option for same weapons b.c they can fly/DS and dont need a transport.
But with Obsessions Trueborn are still viable, i like them with Shredders. They just need a Transport, and honestly Transports depending on your local are either really bad or good.
So you can still play them and build them for a use.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/11 11:35:21
Any one running a double blaster born raider? With 2 squads of 5 you should be able to get 8 blasters shots off. At either 18 or 24 inches depending on obsessions.
10 at 6 inches if you decide to be silly and take blast pistols as well.
No, thats to many points in 1 basket, you need to spread them out, 1 Raider with 2 Trueborns with 8 blasters is nearly 500pts, thats 1/4 your army in 1 raider and 10 T3/5+ guys. It will die turn 1 unless you DS, then it will die the turn it DS's.
Da-Rock wrote: Has anyone converted Wraithguard into Grotesque's successfully and a Wraithlord to a Talos?
I bought Eldar first, but I am loving everything Drukhari so much more........can't afford Grotesques and I already have 15 Wraithguard.
There was an old fluff that had a Haemonculus covert wraithguard into Coven. I think they recon it due to it doesnt really work how the fluff with the souls works.
With some greenstuff and bits it could look great.
Yeah, I read that too and it's the way I would go....so much as that I would say the Haemonculus stuffs some body parts in there just to fully corrupt the Wraithbone frame and torture the spirit stone into compliance some how.
As for buying 9 or 10 etc....that band aid would cause a divorce! :-)
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them.
Best conversion bits for Grotesques are found combining Talos kit and Everblight Warspears. However, if you are running an official GW tournament you might encounter issues.
Da-Rock wrote: Yeah, I read that too and it's the way I would go....so much as that I would say the Haemonculus stuffs some body parts in there just to fully corrupt the Wraithbone frame and torture the spirit stone into compliance some how.
As for buying 9 or 10 etc....that band aid would cause a divorce! :-)
Nah. She loves ya' and knows you deserve it. I cant even imagine a scenario in which doing something that makes you happy would anger her. She wants you to be happy.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Da-Rock wrote: Has anyone converted Wraithguard into Grotesque's successfully and a Wraithlord to a Talos?
I bought Eldar first, but I am loving everything Drukhari so much more........can't afford Grotesques and I already have 15 Wraithguard.
It's currently something I'm working on actually. Cannibalizing most of an AoS dryad kit to shove all manner of spikes, spines and diabolic features through the Wraiths. Nowhere near done, but I'm getting there.
Da-Rock wrote: Yeah, I read that too and it's the way I would go....so much as that I would say the Haemonculus stuffs some body parts in there just to fully corrupt the Wraithbone frame and torture the spirit stone into compliance some how.
As for buying 9 or 10 etc....that band aid would cause a divorce! :-)
Nah. She loves ya' and knows you deserve it. I cant even imagine a scenario in which doing something that makes you happy would anger her. She wants you to be happy.
Ha! I am saving this to show her!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldarsif wrote: Best conversion bits for Grotesques are found combining Talos kit and Everblight Warspears. However, if you are running an official GW tournament you might encounter issues.
Wow! Very nice work there! (I am kicking myself for trading away all my Everblight stuff long ago!) I am converting my Retribution Mage Hunter Infiltrators into Wyches.
I finished off most of my Wraith conversions to work both as Drukhari inspired WraithBlades/Guard and Grotesques.....(I'll try some pics later).
I'm on my way to 10 grotesques. I'll be at 8 once i get 4 more next week. My hope is to get at least 10 in a squad and then DS that to murder some enemies in melee. Normally i hate DS these days. Having turn 1 board presence helps as well as causing more target saturation for the enemy.
I'm in this weird situation where i think blasters suck in general due to range and only being on things that die fast (except blasterborn maybe). Scourge mostly suck. People say haywire is ok but it's only one turn of shooting on scourge and anything that lasts only one turn is generally not worth it.
I'm unsure if the ten model scourge units are ok with the 4 dark lances. It's basically a 36" version of the blaster and heavy instead of assault. I realize people would say it's a waste of points but i honestly think it's a better investment than blasters due to costing about the same without ablative wound scourge models. Anyway i'm mixed if i should even use dark lances.
Dissies are great on ravagers and maybe the razorwing. I honestly was unsure of them but now i prefer them to dark lance for the mere reason of 3+ or 4+ inv. save units just re-rolling the inv. save with a command point. Also they are multi-role and can do some decent long range anti-heavy infantry fire whereas even though shredders are amazing at anti-infantry they'll get shot and melee'd hard if you don't kill things right away. I may also need to take black heart in the future instead of flayed skull due to all the goodies black heart gets. Hopefully the boost it gives makes up for the hit my shredderborn's shooting will take in the venoms with 'writ of the living muse' + a nearby archon to the ravagers. It's a shame we don't have more units with dissies or some variant of them. The strength is kinda balls and the AP is at times good but at other times unneeded. It's an oddly good weapon for something only str 5.
So I'm going to be up against Dark Angels soon, in a modified version of the Total Annihilation scenario from Chapter Approved. The modification is, the attacker is attacking from the air/orbit, so as the attacker I can't include anything that isn't a flyer, riding in a flyer, or teleporting into battle. I have no idea what my Dark Angel opponent will be bringing, save that he wanted to up the point limit to 2500 points so that he could include all of his Terminators.
This is mostly going to be a fun game with mostly thematic lists, but that being said, I'd like some list feedback and tactical advice before going in. Here's what I'm planning on taking:
Total: 2521
CP: 14 (-2 for Alliance of Agony and Prizes of the Dark City)
Questions:
-What should I do to shave down those last 20 points? Anything I should change/get rid of?
-Any tips for playing against Dark Angels? This will be a first time for me
-If anyone has played this particular CA mission before, any pointers will be helpful.
Best person to ask for tactics is 'Amish' i think.
I've never really known anybody to take cronos but far as i've heard it's not very good in comparison to say a talos. Of course if you take a talos you want more than just one.
As far as the rest of it goes i honestly dunno. I'd say wych cult are sub-par but wyches supposedly do alright. Dunno the best way to run them as i prefer haemonculus covens in every way. The only issue is speed but grotesques can usually be DS'd in by turn 2 for a charge and Talos in numbers seem to draw quite a bit of fire from your other units.
Ravagers tend to do better with disintegrators rather than dark lance far as i've seen. Against normal tanks and monsters dark lances are great but against any vehicle or monstrous creature with an invulnerable of 4+ or better (looking at you riptides, knights and forge world vehicles!) the disintegrators are better because it spreads out wounds so they don't just re-roll a failed invulnerable save with 1 command point (super obnoxious btw when you pour out 12 dark lances and fail to even scratch the paint). Also disintegrators offer anti-infantry at range which can be decent depending on what they're hitting.
Honestly i think grotesques for you will handle any monstrous creatures with flesh gauntlets and a ton of different infantry types as well. Eh dark lances might be ok after all but i suppose it depends on vehicles with invulnerable saves.
The list you have sounds alright to be honest. I've never really had a reason to take both covens and wych cults though. Usually people take one or the other as they both do the same melee job but a bit differently.
Regarding dark angels or the mission you play i have no idea. All MEQ armies are in a bad place right now even with new boltgun rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 22:47:05
I've never really known anybody to take cronos but far as i've heard it's not very good in comparison to say a talos. Of course if you take a talos you want more than just one.
As far as the rest of it goes i honestly dunno. I'd say wych cult are sub-par but wyches supposedly do alright. Dunno the best way to run them as i prefer haemonculus covens in every way. The only issue is speed but grotesques can usually be DS'd in by turn 2 for a charge and Talos in numbers seem to draw quite a bit of fire from your other units.
Ravagers tend to do better with disintegrators rather than dark lance far as i've seen. Against normal tanks and monsters dark lances are great but against any vehicle or monstrous creature with an invulnerable of 4+ or better (looking at you riptides, knights and forge world vehicles!) the disintegrators are better because it spreads out wounds so they don't just re-roll a failed invulnerable save with 1 command point (super obnoxious btw when you pour out 12 dark lances and fail to even scratch the paint). Also disintegrators offer anti-infantry at range which can be decent depending on what they're hitting.
Honestly i think grotesques for you will handle any monstrous creatures with flesh gauntlets and a ton of different infantry types as well. Eh dark lances might be ok after all but i suppose it depends on vehicles with invulnerable saves.
The list you have sounds alright to be honest. I've never really had a reason to take both covens and wych cults though. Usually people take one or the other as they both do the same melee job but a bit differently.
Regarding dark angels or the mission you play i have no idea. All MEQ armies are in a bad place right now even with new boltgun rules.
Skari is very good too, more knowledgeable than me for sure (He participates in higher levels than i do), he is not on dakka very often, but on FB and TheDarkCity
But that missions sounds Fun, i havent gotten to play all the CA ones yet (im making a League and trying to balance it with Cities of Death whle we are finishing up 2 other leagues).
For Fly, yes Talos will be great, Cronos really are not worth it but can be made to be worth it, sadly its with Grots, Wyches, basically melee horde, and sadly its normally not worth b.c its not a character, it will get shot to death right away. The Cronos should be a character, then you might see it being played.
As far as that mission? Your list is looking fine, to take away points, take away some weapons off the Reavers, Reavers are good when they are cheap, they dont have the survivability to use special weapons and you are -1 to hit if you advance, especially if you are going for advancement and charging, 2 shots, 1 hit, maybe 1 wound IMO isnt worth 30pts on a unit that wants to move around and tie up other units or take objectives.
Edit: PS, when people ask for advice on lists, i never try to tailor or change their lists to my ideas or playstyles. I try to keep the same units or feel of the list so its your list. Will just give advice on your list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/20 00:11:46
Amishprn86 wrote: Reavers are good when they are cheap, they dont have the survivability to use special weapons and you are -1 to hit if you advance, especially if you are going for advancement and charging, 2 shots, 1 hit, maybe 1 wound IMO isnt worth 30pts on a unit that wants to move around and tie up other units or take objectives.
I think the one other thing reavers are useful for is to protect trueborn venoms from melee units but that's a big 'IF' (and honestly only shredder-born in venoms probably need it). I suppose that follows the tie up other units though.
Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Bladevanes, Dark Lance [20pts], Night Shield
So... strategy-wise and the rationale why I built this list this way is this:
1) I want to own the shooting...
-48 str 6 ap0 shots from hornets
-27 str 5 ap-3 2D dissies from ravagers
-6-36 str 6 ap0 or 3-18 str 8 from reapers
2) But because my shooting platform is made of paper... I built a small Prophet of the Flesh with Taloi (sp?) with haywire blaster to "press forward" toward the enemy every turn. Talos has always surprised my opponents with their resiliency
3) Farseer is there to do farseer things (Doom/Smite/etc..).
4) The two warriors squad are for cheap obj campers or speed bumps for fast opponents (both can ride the raider).
5) This is my attempt to be near-TAC lists to handle IK and Horde armies like Orks and 'stealers.
6) I chose to forgo using battalion detachment so that I can fit in the units... especially since I rarely ever get to use Vect more than once. I usually use it to stop a Castellan from rotating shield or shoot at top-wound tier.
Thoughts? I have access to just about any DE or CW units.
whembly wrote: Really? What effective tactics do you do with talos in threes in the same slot?
I can probably change the list to a patrol to achieve this...
Turn 1 Fire and Fade, move 3 instead of 1
Torturers Craft, 3 get re-rolls wounds instead of 1
Haemonculus/Urien Aura is larger now, Easier to get into aura range
Easier to get into Combat with multi units
Easier to bubble wrap (DaJump, other Ynnari players, etc..)
Flipside of course is less overkill for enemy. Last time I faced taloses one unit vaporized 2 and nearly killed 3rd. Had they been separate ones I would have had to split attacks increasing chance more would have been alive.
Though still on a whole 1 squadron is probably better ;-)
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
